2017 Lawn thread
Discussion
Hi all, any view on this? Uprooted some bushes and old trees and had some turfing done in various parts of the garden last summer.
Most of the areas are fine, turf still lush, but the area below looks like it has completely died off over winter. It's in the shade of a tree, but I kept it well watered for quite a while after turfing, cut it quite a few times etc and thought was all good.
But over winter it just died off.
Is this likely lack of care by me, damaged caused by leaf fall, rubbish turf (unlikely, as rest OK), etc.
Am I best returfing, seeding? And when? Thanks. Gardening not my strong point... any advice appreciated. Cheers.
grass by N L, on Flickr
Most of the areas are fine, turf still lush, but the area below looks like it has completely died off over winter. It's in the shade of a tree, but I kept it well watered for quite a while after turfing, cut it quite a few times etc and thought was all good.
But over winter it just died off.
Is this likely lack of care by me, damaged caused by leaf fall, rubbish turf (unlikely, as rest OK), etc.
Am I best returfing, seeding? And when? Thanks. Gardening not my strong point... any advice appreciated. Cheers.
grass by N L, on FlickrPhilemon said:
Wait until the GROUND temp is above 7°C - at least a week of air temp + 10°C. This is normally towards end March down South and late April further north.
Don't be tempted by all in one products. They don't do anything very well, particularity if you overdose on the fertiliser.
Good advice.Don't be tempted by all in one products. They don't do anything very well, particularity if you overdose on the fertiliser.
bungle said:
Hi all, any view on this? Uprooted some bushes and old trees and had some turfing done in various parts of the garden last summer.
Most of the areas are fine, turf still lush, but the area below looks like it has completely died off over winter. It's in the shade of a tree, but I kept it well watered for quite a while after turfing, cut it quite a few times etc and thought was all good.
But over winter it just died off.
Is this likely lack of care by me, damaged caused by leaf fall, rubbish turf (unlikely, as rest OK), etc.
Am I best returfing, seeding? And when? Thanks. Gardening not my strong point... any advice appreciated. Cheers.
grass by N L, on Flickr
Shade is the principal problem under trees, not helped by the tree taking up water, nutrients, etc. It's a hard place to grow grass at the best of times, and standard ryegrass turf just isn't suited to such shady environments.Most of the areas are fine, turf still lush, but the area below looks like it has completely died off over winter. It's in the shade of a tree, but I kept it well watered for quite a while after turfing, cut it quite a few times etc and thought was all good.
But over winter it just died off.
Is this likely lack of care by me, damaged caused by leaf fall, rubbish turf (unlikely, as rest OK), etc.
Am I best returfing, seeding? And when? Thanks. Gardening not my strong point... any advice appreciated. Cheers.
grass by N L, on FlickrThat said, it looks like an oak (unless those leaves on the ground are from another tree) so whilst it'll hang onto its leaves later than most in autumn, shade through the worst of the winter months isn't nearly so bad as with an evergreen. If it is an evergreen, well then it is as bad as it could be.
There's a lot of leaves still on the ground. Not clearing those will smother the grass and kill it off pretty quickly. Certainly leaving them through the winter will kill off any lawn.
The shed won't be helping with shade issues either, nor will the recently planted hedge on the right as it grows.
I would overseed with a shade tolerant mix, but even then it may require overseeding each spring depending on the amount of shade. It would also benefit from not being cut as short as the rest of the lawn, regular topdressing and additional irrigation in summer. Poa supina is about as shade tolerant as you can get, but fine fescue mixes are also very good.
I would also avoid trying to seed right up to the tree and hedge by putting a border around and along them respectively. In the deepest shade then sometimes you just need to plant an alternative ground cover to grass.
If you can lift the crown of the tree by removing lower branches to get more light onto the ground that will also help.
My grass is growing at an amazing rate. It must be 3-4 inches. It was freshly laid turf last October. It looks like it needs a cut, but I have two issues:
1. The grass is virtually always wet or soaking, is it good idea to cut when this is the case?
2. I have a fair few snowdrops coming through (I put 300 under the grass) only about 30 have come through so far. If I cut, it will get rid of the few that have come through. Will it then kill the plant like when you cut daffodils?
1. The grass is virtually always wet or soaking, is it good idea to cut when this is the case?
2. I have a fair few snowdrops coming through (I put 300 under the grass) only about 30 have come through so far. If I cut, it will get rid of the few that have come through. Will it then kill the plant like when you cut daffodils?
joestifff said:
My grass is growing at an amazing rate. It must be 3-4 inches. It was freshly laid turf last October. It looks like it needs a cut, but I have two issues:
1. The grass is virtually always wet or soaking, is it good idea to cut when this is the case?
2. I have a fair few snowdrops coming through (I put 300 under the grass) only about 30 have come through so far. If I cut, it will get rid of the few that have come through. Will it then kill the plant like when you cut daffodils?
1 - Personally I wouldnt mow it wet. How big is the lawn? Sometimes Ive used a broom to sweep off due and an hour or so later its been mowable.1. The grass is virtually always wet or soaking, is it good idea to cut when this is the case?
2. I have a fair few snowdrops coming through (I put 300 under the grass) only about 30 have come through so far. If I cut, it will get rid of the few that have come through. Will it then kill the plant like when you cut daffodils?
2 - Tough call. If you chop the heads off I doubt youd kill them, with many plants and bulbs dead heading is a good thing and stops the plant putting energy in going to seed. Sounds to me like you need to just wait to see how many snow drops come up over the next month. It could be loads, it could be not many more. That is the problem with popping bulbs under the lawn, you cant really do it and have a bowling green lawn at the same time. In the mean time yes your lawn will get long, but set the cut height up on the next cut and I think itll be ok, you might need to mow twice that time.
I used to have crocuses and daffodils under part of our last lawn and used lawn shears in those areas in spring until such time as the leaves on the bulbs had started to die back.
Leaving the grass uncut until then will mean that it grows far too long to cut back with a mower without taking off too much at once, making for unhealthy grass. Cutting the bulbs back too early will stop them recovering enough energy back into the bulb for the following year.
Fortunately it was only a few square metres of lawn; I'm not sure that I'd want the hassle on a large area.
As above, with wet grass run a broom etc across the grass in the morning then it should be a lot drier in the afternoon to cut.
Leaving the grass uncut until then will mean that it grows far too long to cut back with a mower without taking off too much at once, making for unhealthy grass. Cutting the bulbs back too early will stop them recovering enough energy back into the bulb for the following year.
Fortunately it was only a few square metres of lawn; I'm not sure that I'd want the hassle on a large area.
As above, with wet grass run a broom etc across the grass in the morning then it should be a lot drier in the afternoon to cut.
jagnet said:
Shade is the principal problem under trees, not helped by the tree taking up water, nutrients, etc. It's a hard place to grow grass at the best of times, and standard ryegrass turf just isn't suited to such shady environments.
That said, it looks like an oak (unless those leaves on the ground are from another tree) so whilst it'll hang onto its leaves later than most in autumn, shade through the worst of the winter months isn't nearly so bad as with an evergreen. If it is an evergreen, well then it is as bad as it could be.
There's a lot of leaves still on the ground. Not clearing those will smother the grass and kill it off pretty quickly. Certainly leaving them through the winter will kill off any lawn.
The shed won't be helping with shade issues either, nor will the recently planted hedge on the right as it grows.
I would overseed with a shade tolerant mix, but even then it may require overseeding each spring depending on the amount of shade. It would also benefit from not being cut as short as the rest of the lawn, regular topdressing and additional irrigation in summer. Poa supina is about as shade tolerant as you can get, but fine fescue mixes are also very good.
I would also avoid trying to seed right up to the tree and hedge by putting a border around and along them respectively. In the deepest shade then sometimes you just need to plant an alternative ground cover to grass.
If you can lift the crown of the tree by removing lower branches to get more light onto the ground that will also help.
Great stuff, much appreciated.That said, it looks like an oak (unless those leaves on the ground are from another tree) so whilst it'll hang onto its leaves later than most in autumn, shade through the worst of the winter months isn't nearly so bad as with an evergreen. If it is an evergreen, well then it is as bad as it could be.
There's a lot of leaves still on the ground. Not clearing those will smother the grass and kill it off pretty quickly. Certainly leaving them through the winter will kill off any lawn.
The shed won't be helping with shade issues either, nor will the recently planted hedge on the right as it grows.
I would overseed with a shade tolerant mix, but even then it may require overseeding each spring depending on the amount of shade. It would also benefit from not being cut as short as the rest of the lawn, regular topdressing and additional irrigation in summer. Poa supina is about as shade tolerant as you can get, but fine fescue mixes are also very good.
I would also avoid trying to seed right up to the tree and hedge by putting a border around and along them respectively. In the deepest shade then sometimes you just need to plant an alternative ground cover to grass.
If you can lift the crown of the tree by removing lower branches to get more light onto the ground that will also help.
Yeah, it's pretty shady in that corner, and the tree really doesn't help. Already been crown lifted last year.
Re the Poa Supina, great advice, thanks, but is this a "down at garden centre"-type product, or more specialist and therefore online? If the latter, any tips of where to get, or I'll just google and take it from there. But a shade tolerant seed sounds like just what I need.
Unlikely to be in a garden centre. Germinal's A6 Supreme Shade contains it. 2.5% of the mix may not sound much but in deep shade it'll dominate very quickly.
Any advice from the green fingered friends on here....
Ive been struggling with moss in my lawn. Each spring since I bought the house Ive had to kill the moss, overseed, feed and then aerate the lawn. Over the summer the grass then looks great, but over winter the moss returns with a vengeance. The lawn is fairly sunny, and gets direct sun from morning til about 1pm. Im not sure if its acidic, alkaline or whatever. Is there anything I can do to actually fix this problem once and for all, or am I forever destined to have a mossy lawn?! I suspect that it doesnt help the final cuttings were left on the lawn and that killed some grass, allowing the moss to grow through.
Ive been struggling with moss in my lawn. Each spring since I bought the house Ive had to kill the moss, overseed, feed and then aerate the lawn. Over the summer the grass then looks great, but over winter the moss returns with a vengeance. The lawn is fairly sunny, and gets direct sun from morning til about 1pm. Im not sure if its acidic, alkaline or whatever. Is there anything I can do to actually fix this problem once and for all, or am I forever destined to have a mossy lawn?! I suspect that it doesnt help the final cuttings were left on the lawn and that killed some grass, allowing the moss to grow through.
Condi said:
Is there anything I can do to actually fix this problem once and for all, or am I forever destined to have a mossy lawn?!
Certainly leaving anything on the grass that can smother it is going to be an issue. I would also look at increasing your height of cut towards the end of the season if you aren't already. For a normal lawn that could be 2 to 2.5 inches. If there's areas of shade then you'll need to go higher than that still. Most lawns are cut far too short at heights that they can barely cope with in good conditions; in times of stress then the grass will really suffer.If you're not sure what the pH level of the soil is then it's worth at least getting some pH test strips, a pH meter or even a basic soil analysis. At least that way you've got a better understanding of where you're starting from and if there is an underlying issue.
Also look at things such as your fertilising regime - too much or too little, too high in Nitrogen in autumn? Perhaps try switching to organic fertilisers to improve the beneficial bacteria/fungi levels in the soil. If the soil isn't overly acidic then light to medium iron sulphate treatments in autumn and winter can help harden the grass and deter moss.
The latter, but I'd suggest the Lawnsmith version instead. Or if you're feeling particularly flush then there's always the sarel roller.
Aeration makes a significant difference to the lawn, and regular spiking with needle tines is better for the soil than once a year hollow tining. The manual hollow tine forks can be an absolute swine to use sometimes depending on soil type and moisture levels in the ground. At a bare minimum I'd suggest angle grinding the ends at an angle if you do get one.
The needle tine rollers are a breeze to use in comparison, which makes it much more likely that you'll actually use them. You do need to put some weight behind them - rest the top of the handle against the lower abdomen and push down with your hand part way down the handle - to push the tines into the ground as it rotates. And don't try doing it downhill using that method; your neighbours will appreciate the comedy value if you do.
If the ground really is very compacted then deeper aeration with a garden fork first is worth doing. Push the fork in and pull back a little until you can start to see the ground heave slightly infront. Not only does this create holes from the points of the fork but it also creates micro fractures in the vicinity as you pull back on it. Imho that actually makes it more effective than hollow tining.
Aeration makes a significant difference to the lawn, and regular spiking with needle tines is better for the soil than once a year hollow tining. The manual hollow tine forks can be an absolute swine to use sometimes depending on soil type and moisture levels in the ground. At a bare minimum I'd suggest angle grinding the ends at an angle if you do get one.
The needle tine rollers are a breeze to use in comparison, which makes it much more likely that you'll actually use them. You do need to put some weight behind them - rest the top of the handle against the lower abdomen and push down with your hand part way down the handle - to push the tines into the ground as it rotates. And don't try doing it downhill using that method; your neighbours will appreciate the comedy value if you do.
If the ground really is very compacted then deeper aeration with a garden fork first is worth doing. Push the fork in and pull back a little until you can start to see the ground heave slightly infront. Not only does this create holes from the points of the fork but it also creates micro fractures in the vicinity as you pull back on it. Imho that actually makes it more effective than hollow tining.
Another victim of savage moss infestation here. It must've been a perfect winter for the stuff.
My house is just over three years old and having been in a flat before I've loved tending my lawns and had them looking fantastic last Summer.
My back lawn is south facing and not too badly affected so I'll probably dig out the patches of moss from there then I'm planning to seed it on a mixture of decent topsoil and compost in the odd square foot patch her and there come late March/early April. I did that on the patch where we used to have a trampoline and it's one of the best patches of the lawn now.
The real issue is the front lawn. Not a huge area but being North-facing it doesn't get much sunlight and the ground is heavy clay so it holds loads of moisture. Perfect for the ever-increasing moss. as it's only about 40 square yards I'm considering digging the lot up and having it re-turfed. If I go down that route, any recommendations for turf that will live happily in shady, damp conditions?
My house is just over three years old and having been in a flat before I've loved tending my lawns and had them looking fantastic last Summer.
My back lawn is south facing and not too badly affected so I'll probably dig out the patches of moss from there then I'm planning to seed it on a mixture of decent topsoil and compost in the odd square foot patch her and there come late March/early April. I did that on the patch where we used to have a trampoline and it's one of the best patches of the lawn now.
The real issue is the front lawn. Not a huge area but being North-facing it doesn't get much sunlight and the ground is heavy clay so it holds loads of moisture. Perfect for the ever-increasing moss. as it's only about 40 square yards I'm considering digging the lot up and having it re-turfed. If I go down that route, any recommendations for turf that will live happily in shady, damp conditions?
Depending on how shaded it is, then you may be ok with normal turf if you maintain a relatively high cut and don't mind overseeding every now and again. Depending on how heavy the clay is you may be ok with a "fine grass" turf; whilst fine grasses do better in the shade than ryegrass they generally prefer a more free draining soil.
Poa supina could again be the answer as it's quite happy on heavier soils and is available as turf, although likely not through the local garden centre. It's going to be roughly double to triple the cost of normal turf which may be a consideration.
Alternatively, if you don't mind growing it from seed then it brings up all sorts of options. Lawnsmith's Shady Green is a popular choice from previous PH lawn threads for damp shade.
Poa supina could again be the answer as it's quite happy on heavier soils and is available as turf, although likely not through the local garden centre. It's going to be roughly double to triple the cost of normal turf which may be a consideration.
Alternatively, if you don't mind growing it from seed then it brings up all sorts of options. Lawnsmith's Shady Green is a popular choice from previous PH lawn threads for damp shade.
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