When did gardeners get so blooming ;-) expensive???

[ChrisnChris]

My Mum usually has a minimum of 3 "gardeners" on the go. Sometimes there are more, but she can be a bit "difficult" and some don't last very long
She also has a cleaner who sometimes helps in the garden.

One of the 3 regulars is knowledgeable and she pays him £17.50hr for 2 hrs a week
Another is hard working but a bit heavy handed, he gets £12.50 2-3 hrs
There are 2 other very casual people atm who get £10 usually one visit a week or less
The cleaner gets £11

The regulars have all been with her for a few years & know her ways & all seem happy enough.

Occasionally I will advertise locally for another gardener if she needs it.

The local "specialists" will turn up, she will quiz them about their "knowledge" they will pitch their hourly rate, usually between £20-£30 hr
They will be sent packing because "they're no good, they don't know anything about plants"

This seems to be the general standard, say what you like, build up your own worth, bullsh*t your way into a job, take the money and run.
Specialists my arse. Ditch diggers most of them

[akirk]

trickywoo said:

Not sure if we have had this interesting source which puts the cost of an employee at 1.85 times salary. Which puts £12/ hr at about £23 / hr cost to employer.

http://www.accountingservicesforbusiness.co.uk/cal...

I think you might need to adjust the figures
unless you really are allowing HR overheads / training days / software costs / wastage time / etc. within a gardener's salary?

remove the irrelevant and it comes down to c. £12 = c. £15.25

[talksthetorque]

It appears some of your applicants are applying for vacancies, employment. Can we discount them or are you putting the job through the books?

[PugwasHDJ80]

akirk said:

it is funny how all the social warriors don't bother reading the thread though as they are having too much fun lambasting the OP because they see him as wealthier then they do it!

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Total bks- you've taken the chip on your shoulder and conflated your social malaise with the OP's posts.

The reference, from the OP, about how much tax he pays, was not to big himself up, but was to show that he isn't a "drain" on society as that was the inference of one of the other posters.

A bald look at the stats on income and tax show that its guys like him that make the tax system work. (something like 80% of all tax receipts come from 5% of the population- its that 5% we really don't want to lose and really want to make bigger)

As to whether people on £10 or under are supported by the state- that's probably true, and yet, i used to work in a business paying minimum wage, half the workforce were polish, didn't take benefits and still sent money home=- you don't need to take state handouts to live. There are two reasons that the UK population gets support:

1. Housing costs are so high (and this is where the real injustice is- planning and NIMBYs combine to drive prices up)
but also
2. A sense of entitlement that we should all somehow have the nice house, security, and to be looked after without actually inputting to the system.

The OP is right- if BASIC gardening (which is not horticulture, arboriculture or land management) is costing £25/hour then i suspect you will see lots of eastern europeans suddenly turning into gardeners.

for a self employed chap £10/hr can easily run a vehicle, pay insurances and pay for a house - i started on half that 19 years ago. He won't pay any tax, and will probably pocket a big lump of it anyway.

What £10/hour won't do is pay for a professional team of gardeners who will come in and make improvements.

[trickywoo]

akirk said:

I think you might need to adjust the figures
unless you really are allowing HR overheads / training days / software costs / wastage time / etc. within a gardener's salary?

remove the irrelevant and it comes down to c. £12 = c. £15.25

You've missed the point entirely.

[akirk]

trickywoo said:

akirk said:

I think you might need to adjust the figures
unless you really are allowing HR overheads / training days / software costs / wastage time / etc. within a gardener's salary?

remove the irrelevant and it comes down to c. £12 = c. £15.25

You've missed the point entirely.

not at all - not all employers have that overhead per employee
and definitely not those providing gardeners
so to use it as an example of costs for a gardener is of course irrelevant...

[Greg_D]

talksthetorque said:

It appears some of your applicants are applying for vacancies, employment. Can we discount them or are you putting the job through the books?

The job was advertised as part time contract, the text stated a couple of hours a week and the rate put into the correct box. I couldn't have been any clearer.

I pay bacs into their bank and have a receipt off them. There's no way I'm being accused of anything untoward. If they don't give me correct details then that is up to them. I do what I can within the general framework of self-employment.

[trickywoo]

akirk said:

not at all - not all employers have that overhead per employee
and definitely not those providing gardeners
so to use it as an example of costs for a gardener is of course irrelevant...

It isn't 'of course' irrelevant. As there are plenty of people on here saying similar work (from a skill point of view) pays minimum wage so why should they get more.

The details in the link I posted illustrate the costs of employment people with no experience of being self employed dismiss without due consideration.

I suppose you would argue the self employed should not build in an allowance for pension, sickness etc.

Just because some of the categories in that indicative calculation do not directly apply to being a gardener you could substitute many of them for things that do without much thought.

For all the benefits of being self employed the really big draw back is having no safety net. Hurt yourself playing football and in a PAYE role you phone in sick and have a few days off, self employed and you aren't earning. This all needs to be built in.

Your posts seem pretty incoherent so I don't even know what it is you are taking exception to.

[shedweller]

I lost part of my eye a few years ago - and have had a few fractures and plenty of time off due to injury's sustained whilst "gardening"

And I think most would agree that its riskier than all of the jobs listed above, Sometimes when I get home from work I can't summon the strength to lift my son - once again something that doesn't happen much or at all in the jobs listed above.....Except dental nurses - proper grafters, passing those heavy tools over to dentists in the rain........ up a ladder


I run a business, my business the way in want to - And to do that I need to charge £25 per man per hour to offer a professional service and pay a wage (were not sign written or tshirted up either).

I honestly had not had a complaint about VFM for a couple of years.

[akirk]

trickywoo said:

I suppose you would argue the self employed should not build in an allowance for pension, sickness etc.

not at all - but I would be surprised if they built in an allowance for HR / computer training (for this specific job) / wastage of time / etc. which that calculator includes...

the point being made is pretty simple
- OP observesthat there is a difference between what he feels is appropriate pay for an entry level unskilled job of pulling out a few weeds
- lots of folks jump in with irrelevant comments about how expensive it is to run a professional gardening firm
- you add an irrelevant calculator purporting to show how that £12 p/h really costs £20+ p/h (when it includes all sorts of irrelevant costs)
- others add in that market forces confirm that all gardeners should be paid £25+
- OP gets a number of people applying for the job at the lower rate - and gets someone working for him - proving all the above people wrong...

not complex

[SVS]

The OP asked when gardening became a skilled job, assuming that a gardener would just run a mower round, use a strimmer and pull out a few weeds.

As several people have explained, gardening's actually a skilled job. I think the OP just needed basic labour, not a gardener.

[BlueHave]

I'm just amazed someone would send a CV to apply to be someones gardener. Unless you want to win a Gold medal at the Chelsea Flower show then cutting grass, hedges, lawn maintenance etc is common sense and basic instruction can be got via youtube etc.

I know a guy who made £10 an hour about 12 years ago as a gardener during his summers as a student but he used to get ask to do a lot of extra work.

He recalls turning up to do garden when the weather took a turn and the old lady invited him in cut her hair instead. Another tried to seduce him.

Edited by BlueHave on Wednesday 24th May 00:41

[g3org3y]

BlueHave said:

He recalls turning up to do garden when the weather took a turn and the old lady invited him in cut her hair instead. Another tried to seduce him.

I'm sure when he was asked to attend to her bush, it wasn't quite what he had in mind.

[BlueHave]

g3org3y said:

BlueHave said:

He recalls turning up to do garden when the weather took a turn and the old lady invited him in cut her hair instead. Another tried to seduce him.

I'm sure when he was asked to attend to her bush, it wasn't quite what he had in mind.

I should have said it was the hair on her head. The one that tried to seduce him used to sunbathe in the nude in her back garden. She gave him a bell to ring when he was on his way round so she could cover up. He rang the bell and then waited to be called and when he went around she was still lying naked.