Failing Speedfit plumbing joints

[Sheepshanks]

Little Lofty said:

My house was built using Hep2o, no leaks in 16 years. I always preferred Hep2o until they changed the design a few years ago, I use Speedfit now. My mate who owns a plumber merchants reckons the o rings will start to deteriorate after 25-30 years, that’s just his opinion but he could be correct.

That's a bit worrying - ours has been in about 23yrs! I had a brain-fart doing one section around a bay window and only realised after it had all been plastered in that I'd forgotten to put the inserts in. The Hep2O people said I'd probably get away with it as it was 10mm and the barrier pipe at that size is mostly pipe-wall - touch wood, it has been (so far!).

As a re-fit (house was built with a single-pipe system) it's a lot easier to install than copper as you can 'cable' it through joists. It doesn't emit heat and it's quiet - my parents had CH retrofitted to their house and the pipes clicking was insane. I did all the radiator tails in copper though.

[anonymous-user]

Little Lofty said:

My house was built using Hep2o, no leaks in 16 years. I always preferred Hep2o until they changed the design a few years ago, I use Speedfit now. My mate who owns a plumber merchants reckons the o rings will start to deteriorate after 25-30 years, that’s just his opinion but he could be correct.

I was told the same by a plumber who was running a plumbing course I was on. He said they’re only guaranteed for 20ish years and they’ve been in use just under 20 now. In his opinion he thought there is going to be a serious number of leaks once these houses reach 20 years old. And of course plenty of them are concealed inside stud walls! Good luck with that!

[Sheepshanks]

F20CN16 said:

I was told the same by a plumber who was running a plumbing course I was on. He said they’re only guaranteed for 20ish years and they’ve been in use just under 20 now. In his opinion he thought there is going to be a serious number of leaks once these houses reach 20 years old. And of course plenty of them are concealed inside stud walls! Good luck with that!

"Hep2O" was introduced in 1991 and there was a version of it for 10yrs before that.

[anonymous-user]

Sheepshanks said:

"Hep2O" was introduced in 1991 and there was a version of it for 10yrs before that.

Ah, okay. Slightly tall tale from that plumber then!

[johnoz]

F20CN16 said:

Ah, okay. Slightly tall tale from that plumber then!

That will be Acorn then, was a brown in colour.

[wolfracesonic]

F20CN16 said:

Little Lofty said:

My house was built using Hep2o, no leaks in 16 years. I always preferred Hep2o until they changed the design a few years ago, I use Speedfit now. My mate who owns a plumber merchants reckons the o rings will start to deteriorate after 25-30 years, that’s just his opinion but he could be correct.

I was told the same by a plumber who was running a plumbing course I was on. He said they’re only guaranteed for 20ish years and they’ve been in use just under 20 now. In his opinion he thought there is going to be a serious number of leaks once these houses reach 20 years old. And of course plenty of them are concealed inside stud walls! Good luck with that!

‘Have you been mis-sold push fit plumbing fittings? Call our help line now to make a claim’!

[hotchy]

bristoltype603 said:

I hate plastic pipe. People say it's quicker but really it's just that anyone can install it (bodge it) with minimal skill. If you can solder well you can install it just as quickly as plastic.

Personally I'd rip the lot out asap

No chance can you solder as quick as just pushing a pipe into a join.

Plus copper pipes today are so thin you've got more chance of a pin hole every so often after a while.

[Obison]

Our system was done with speed fit in quite a few areas due to access issues, not one leak in 13 years.

[Little Lofty]

hotchy said:

bristoltype603 said:

I hate plastic pipe. People say it's quicker but really it's just that anyone can install it (bodge it) with minimal skill. If you can solder well you can install it just as quickly as plastic.

Personally I'd rip the lot out asap

No chance can you solder as quick as just pushing a pipe into a join.

Plus copper pipes today are so thin you've got more chance of a pin hole every so often after a while.

The last two leaks I’ve come across on property I’ve renovated have been pin holes in copper, as you say it’s wafer thin now, you can really tell the difference when you are cutting old pipe as it takes three times as many turns of the slice. I’d much rather have plastic pipe, a permanent joint would be preferred. There are other systems out there but they don’t seem very popular.

[kambites]

I've noticed a significant difference in the thickness of the sidewall of copper pipes from different sources too. The stuff I bought in bulk online when I was building our extension was a good half a mm thick; the few bits I've bought from high street DIY stores seems to be about half that.

I've never really had a problem with copper personally. Solder ring fittings aren't much more effort to fit than push-fit stuff. The real disadvantage is that you can't solder pipes which have water in them anywhere near the joint, which is a pain in the arse when you're, for example, modifying the pipework to fit a longer radiator without completely draining down the central heating system.

[g7jtk]

Crumpet said:

Five years ago the house had entirely new central heating, all connected using Speedfit type plastic fittings. I was dubious at the time but was assured they're just as good as soldered copper piping so I accepted them.

Anyway, within the first year we'd had two leaks, both on 90 degree connectors, but both easy fixes. Now, five years later, we've had another massive leak that's taken us six weeks to find (boiler wouldn't hold pressure) and unfortunately it's under the kitchen floor.

My questions are; is this normal for plastic fittings? And, if not, is it reasonable to ask (demand) the plumber to fix it for no charge? Is it just one of the joys of home ownership and a mishap that I should just suck up, or is it likely to be poor parts and workmanship?

These fitting do have a warranty

[g7jtk]

F20CN16 said:

Ah, okay. Slightly tall tale from that plumber then!

Not a tall tail. Just the garden tee is 20 odd years that they will take responsibility for but should last longer. As said it only takes the O ring to fail and some of the fittings can’t be replaced.
Stick to traditional materials but even they fail sometimes.

[Teddy Lop]

bristoltype603 said:

I hate plastic pipe. People say it's quicker but really it's just that anyone can install it (bodge it) with minimal skill. If you can solder well you can install it just as quickly as plastic.

Personally I'd rip the lot out asap

not saying its not worth the investment but copper can't compete for speed once you've notched joist etc.

The problem with push fit plumbing is people confuse "easy-fit" with "the job now requires no skill or care whatsoever"

Builder I work for, his worthless excuse for a plumber (and a pair of kids who do most of the work) succesfully floods every single job we go on, builder seems to think this is normal, although he hasn't asked my direct opinion..

[Crumpet]

Just noticed my thread has been revived! I really shouldn’t have titled it ‘Speedfit’ because I now know that the fittings that failed were the cheapo Polypipe system. And in any case, I don’t think they failed, they just either loosened themselves or the plumber never tightened them.

Since then I’ve replumbed a lot of the house but have used Speedfit and, touch wood, haven’t had any issues.

I did make a mistake recently by using a Speedfit fitting on Polypipe pipe. Good job I did a thorough check after turning the water on as it blew straight off. So all the stuff I’ve replaced recently have to have copper pipe into the last Polypipe fitting and then I can start with the Speedfit onto the copper.

I suppose a reflection of my confidence in plastic is that I have five ‘leak detectors’ placed under areas where it’s heavily used! I just wish they’d automatically turn the stop tap off when activated.

[markcoznottz]

g7jtk said:

F20CN16 said:

Ah, okay. Slightly tall tale from that plumber then!

Not a tall tail. Just the garden tee is 20 odd years that they will take responsibility for but should last longer. As said it only takes the O ring to fail and some of the fittings can’t be replaced.
Stick to traditional materials but even they fail sometimes.

Where do John guest source thier o rings from?. I know a lot were put together years ago without the inserts in.

[ACCYSTAN]

Hep20 now guarantee there fittings for 50 years

I am a fan of Hep20, never had an issue and while they are slightly more expensive than other plastic rivals and a little bit more bulky, they do seem to be a higher quality.

I wouldn’t go near speedy fit, had issues although I am sure they have improved.

[Biggus thingus]

If any one using any plastic system and has installed it as per manufacturers recommendations and feel that the leak is due to the materials, they should cut out the fitting, with the section of pipe that was inserted and contact the relevant manufacturer

They will then get a rep to contact you, collect the failed fitting & pipe and get it tested

The resulting report will detail why it failed

1, Installer error - ie, no insert, dirt in the fitting, not pushed home correctly, tampered with fitting etc
2, Manufacturing fault - size/wall tolerances out, incorrectly moulded etc pay out reasonable costs

And 2 defo happens

[g7jtk]

markcoznottz said:

Where do John guest source thier o rings from?. I know a lot were put together years ago without the inserts in.

Don’t know

[markcoznottz]

ACCYSTAN said:

Hep20 now guarantee there fittings for 50 years

I am a fan of Hep20, never had an issue and while they are slightly more expensive than other plastic rivals and a little bit more bulky, they do seem to be a higher quality.

I wouldn’t go near speedy fit, had issues although I am sure they have improved.

O rings do degrade though surely....

[Vanden Saab]

My plumber mate uses a natty clamp type tool with special copper fittings although he can solder if needed. Reckons it is as quick as speedfit but without the problems...