Builder almost brought the house down..literally

[andy43]

I'd rather the acrows were sat on planks on the soil/site concrete than mid span on a random joist originally specc'd to support Mrs Miggins in her rocking chair, not hold up her bedroom as well.

[alfie2244]

Supporting the weight above by acrowing directly from the suspended floor joists below???

[davgar]

thanks for the support hyphen. what do you advise i tell the builder to do at this stage.

hyphen said:

Any reason for that tone?

davgar I guess is a non-builder who has builders in and just wants to check it is ok.

[Dave_ST220]

davgar said:

thanks for the support hyphen. what do you advise i tell the builder to do at this stage.

I wouldn't tell them anything. I'd ask them if they know what they are doing! Seriously these are people that you've entrusted to work on what is probably your most important asset. Propping onto anything other than solid ground is basic stuff. What may look like soil could be compacted hard core with years of crud. In any case the props should be sitting on scaffolding planks or similar so the load is spread out over a greater surface area. Are building control involved?

[alfie2244]

Unless the ground is very soft, which I doubt, then you do not need to panic. You may wish to ask whether a section of timber / scaffold board between the ground and the acrow base might help to spread the load a bit. Having been hit on the head / back by falling acrows several times I would just make sure the top of the acrows are nailed / fixed at the top.

edit Dave beat me to it.

[davgar]

Dave_ST220 - thanks for your post. Building Control are involved but dont think they have seen this yet.
are you suggesting i request BC to visit to see this?

[Dave_ST220]

If BC are involved then a quick email with pictures could put your mind at rest.

[davgar]

alfie - thanks for your post. I will instruct them to do this.

alfie2244 said:

Unless the ground is very soft, which I doubt, then you do not need to panic. You may wish to ask whether a section of timber / scaffold board between the ground and the acrow base might help to spread the load a bit. Having been hit on the head / back by falling acrows several times I would just make sure the top of the acrows are nailed / fixed at the top.

edit Dave beat me to it.

[alfie2244]

davgar said:

alfie - thanks for your post. I will instruct them to do this.

alfie2244 said:

Unless the ground is very soft, which I doubt, then you do not need to panic. You may wish to ask whether a section of timber / scaffold board between the ground and the acrow base might help to spread the load a bit. Having been hit on the head / back by falling acrows several times I would just make sure the top of the acrows are nailed / fixed at the top.

edit Dave beat me to it.

Suggest or ask....don't instruct...play dumb...don't let them know you are getting 3rd party advice from a car forum

[Robertj21a]

Going back to the original issue, I would certainly advise plenty of video or photos. If it comes to a court case, or even simply convincing the boss of what went on in his absence, they will prove invaluable - 'a picture speaks a thousand words'. I've been involved in a rather similar builder dispute and the many photos I took were a massive asset.

[SAB888]

Dave_ST220 said:

davgar said:

thanks for the support hyphen. what do you advise i tell the builder to do at this stage.

I wouldn't tell them anything. I'd ask them if they know what they are doing! Seriously these are people that you've entrusted to work on what is probably your most important asset. Propping onto anything other than solid ground is basic stuff. What may look like soil could be compacted hard core with years of crud. In any case the props should be sitting on scaffolding planks or similar so the load is spread out over a greater surface area. Are building control involved?

Have to agree. The builder should know about putting the acrows on a solid base and spreading the load. Good luck!

[NoIP]

hyphen said:

NoIP said:

davgar said:

NoIp = what should the accros be sat on?

NoIP said:

If they're sat on the earth then clearly those ones aren't doing st. You can probably push them over with your hand.

Something solid or something that is attached to something solid, like the floor joists if nothing better is available. Sitting them on soil is obviously not going to do st! I would have thought that was basic common sense to anyone with a brain without me needing to explain it further!

Any reason for that tone?

davgar I guess is a non-builder who has builders in and just wants to check it is ok.

Perhaps I had misinterpreted his post - if so I apologise. As the other posters have said since, they need to be stood on the most solid and immovable objects you have at your disposal so in the absence of a concrete floor your next option is going to be the floor joists as they'll most likely be sat on the walls at either end, then you want to spread the load as much as you can so ideally you want to get hold of some scaffy planks and lay those across the joists in the other direction and position the acrow poles directly above the floor joists so that they have the maximum support.

You need to do the same kind of thing at the ceiling as well. A few small chocks of wood between the top of the pole and the ceiling won't do much. You'll need scaffy planks (or something comparable) up top as well so that the wall above is supported for the full section that was removed.

In your earlier pic (I didn't notice that was your post originally) the upper support looks mostly acceptable if the acrows are lined up with the joists (hard to tell) but at the bottom rather than them being sat on "compacted earth without flat bases" they should have laid some scaffy planks across the floor joists and sat them on those.

The post and pics by Blakeatron posted on Sunday is the correct way to do it: metal beams through the wall, support either side with acrows, knock out the only bit of the wall you need to do to get the RSJ in, install RSJ then you're good to knock out the wall underneath and remove your beams with no risk of your house landing on your head!

[davgar]

NoIP - thanks for your help.

My bad - it is actually a concrete floor. so can relax.

[tleefox]

If taking photos, make sure you have the date stamp on.

[Simpo Two]

tleefox said:

If taking photos, make sure you have the date stamp on.

For personal interest maybe, but i can't think it would stand up in court as the camera date can be set to any date and even EXIF data can be changed.

[Vaud]

Simpo Two said:

For personal interest maybe, but i can't think it would stand up in court as the camera date can be set to any date and even EXIF data can be changed.

Given it is likely to be small claims court, if anything, then regular notes and photos are fine. A judge sitting around the table won't expect an evidence chain; a clear timeline and copies of communications would be useful..

[Cogcog]

Update.

They have installed three monster steels all packed but we had a bit more movement/settling which has widened the cracks as that wa done. Engineer came and gave instructions for careful removal of the needles. Boss is back from tomorow and we have a site visit with him Monday morning.

Another insult to injury is that they hacked 1 foot off the ends of all the floorboards to get the steel in and the acrows through, despite the boards being loose from the plumber last week and my daughter's partner on the end of the phone telling them to take the boards up carefully and not cut them. They now have a load of 35mm boards to locate and install and some serious ceilng repairs to do.

[Cogcog]

They have moved to work on the outside now

[alfie2244]

Cogcog said:

They have moved to work on the outside now

[NoIP]

Cogcog said:

Update.

They have installed three monster steels all packed but we had a bit more movement/settling which has widened the cracks as that wa done. Engineer came and gave instructions for careful removal of the needles. Boss is back from tomorow and we have a site visit with him Monday morning.

Another insult to injury is that they hacked 1 foot off the ends of all the floorboards to get the steel in and the acrows through, despite the boards being loose from the plumber last week and my daughter's partner on the end of the phone telling them to take the boards up carefully and not cut them. They now have a load of 35mm boards to locate and install and some serious ceilng repairs to do.

Christ. You have more patience than me. I would have lost confidence in them the moment the cracks appeared and binned them off. The damage has been done now and you're always going to have a non-square house with bodged windows and doors that have been stressed and cracked walls. It's alright them saying well it'll be fine once we fill the cracks with glue but why should you put up with that and have a bodged house? There's no way to put it back to how it was without demolition. It wasn't like that before they were let loose on it and if they'd done it by the rule book then there wouldn't have been any cracks or movement. They are 100% to blame for it and with the evidence you have you should take them to the cleaners. What a nightmare. I fear you're only just at the start of a whole bunch of problems you're going to have with this over the coming months and years.