Need to install electrics to my new shed/garage.
Discussion
CALLING FOR HELP!!!
So I have mostly finished my shed/garage build (still have some niggly boring bits to do) and now need to install the electrics to the shed. I plan to run an armored cable underground from the house fuse box to a fuse box in the shed.
The cable run from house to shed will be approx 27 meters so lets say 30 meters, and will be running around 6 strip lights, compressor, welder, around 8 wall sockets, power tools and possibly a big ass colchester bantum lathe, which I have not yet purchased.
I imagine that things like the lathe and compressor could do with their own circuit breakers and permanently wired, there for isolating their circuits to the rest.
Basically I don't know much about how the electrics work (i'm more mechanical) and could do with some help on what size armored cabling I need, and how to earth it etc.. also what size amp breakers for the different circuits (i'm guessing a light circuit, mains(socket) circuit, lathe and compressor).
If anyone could draw up a basic plan that would be awesome
I know that the clever thing would be to get an electrician for advice, but obviously will cost for his services, and ontop of that need to buy all the electrical installations. I'm trying to cut down on the costs as so far this build has cost over 5k.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
So I have mostly finished my shed/garage build (still have some niggly boring bits to do) and now need to install the electrics to the shed. I plan to run an armored cable underground from the house fuse box to a fuse box in the shed.
The cable run from house to shed will be approx 27 meters so lets say 30 meters, and will be running around 6 strip lights, compressor, welder, around 8 wall sockets, power tools and possibly a big ass colchester bantum lathe, which I have not yet purchased.
I imagine that things like the lathe and compressor could do with their own circuit breakers and permanently wired, there for isolating their circuits to the rest.
Basically I don't know much about how the electrics work (i'm more mechanical) and could do with some help on what size armored cabling I need, and how to earth it etc.. also what size amp breakers for the different circuits (i'm guessing a light circuit, mains(socket) circuit, lathe and compressor).
If anyone could draw up a basic plan that would be awesome
I know that the clever thing would be to get an electrician for advice, but obviously will cost for his services, and ontop of that need to buy all the electrical installations. I'm trying to cut down on the costs as so far this build has cost over 5k.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
Edited by squeezyphil on Wednesday 6th September 15:18
squeezyphil said:
The cable run from house to shed will be approx 27 meters so lets say 30 meters, and will be running around 6 strip lights, compressor, welder, around 8 wall sockets, power tools and possibly a big ass colchester bantum lathe, which I have not yet purchased.
I imagine that things like the lathe and compressor could do with their own circuit breakers and permanently wired, there for isolating their circuits to the rest.
Basically I don't know much about how the electrics work (i'm more mechanical) and could do with some help on what size armored cabling I need, and how to earth it etc.. also what size amp breakers for the different circuits (i'm guessing a light circuit, mains(socket) circuit, lathe and compressor).
Single phase, I presume? Speaking personally, I'm very happy to get stuck in to 1ph, but wouldn't go near 3ph with somebody else's bargepole.I imagine that things like the lathe and compressor could do with their own circuit breakers and permanently wired, there for isolating their circuits to the rest.
Basically I don't know much about how the electrics work (i'm more mechanical) and could do with some help on what size armored cabling I need, and how to earth it etc.. also what size amp breakers for the different circuits (i'm guessing a light circuit, mains(socket) circuit, lathe and compressor).
What's the draw on the big stuff?
The SWA from house to garage will export the house's own earth - either by using the sheath of the armour, or an earth core inside it. The SWA to our outbuilding is earthed-core, and I was a bit wary about putting the gland on the outside of the armour (I only needed to shorten it, not install it afresh), but it really wasn't as bad as I'd convinced myself it was going to be.
First thing to consider is, assuming this will be a new circuit so will need testing properly and notifying to building control. In practice this will need an electrician to sign it off so you are much better to get that electrician on board now. Alternatively ignore all this and hope no-one notices and you don't get any come back when you want to sell the house.
Second, you can get a lot of advice here but it will mean nothing if the info you give is wrong. And, as you are not an electrician you may well not give us the info we need so the advice will be wrong. Leaving you with an inadequate or dangerous installation. Another reason to get an electrician on site to spec this properly.
Third, the big cost for this is likely to be groundworks, digging ditches, running ducting/cable etc. You may well find an electrician that is more than happy for you to do that to his spec (not many sparks I know like digging ditches...), that way you can reduce your costs but still get the final installation and signing off done officially.
Ok, you might get the impression I think you should use an electrician, perhaps because I am (was) qualified as an electrician
That said, if you really really want to do it yourself you need a lot more info to spec it right. Top of my head what I would be checking is:
- what are the loads required in the garage (eg welder and lathe), how much spare capacity do you want (eg buy a mill, larger lathe etc in the future?)
- any bonding (both main and supplementary) required in the garage?
-is the main bonding for the house up to scratch?
-what is the supply earthing system?
-what is the supply loop impedance?
-what RCD protection is already in place? will it be used for the garage or bypassed?
I am not trying to bamboozle you with questions but I am afraid at some point these things will need considering to get it right.......
Second, you can get a lot of advice here but it will mean nothing if the info you give is wrong. And, as you are not an electrician you may well not give us the info we need so the advice will be wrong. Leaving you with an inadequate or dangerous installation. Another reason to get an electrician on site to spec this properly.
Third, the big cost for this is likely to be groundworks, digging ditches, running ducting/cable etc. You may well find an electrician that is more than happy for you to do that to his spec (not many sparks I know like digging ditches...), that way you can reduce your costs but still get the final installation and signing off done officially.
Ok, you might get the impression I think you should use an electrician, perhaps because I am (was) qualified as an electrician
That said, if you really really want to do it yourself you need a lot more info to spec it right. Top of my head what I would be checking is:
- what are the loads required in the garage (eg welder and lathe), how much spare capacity do you want (eg buy a mill, larger lathe etc in the future?)
- any bonding (both main and supplementary) required in the garage?
-is the main bonding for the house up to scratch?
-what is the supply earthing system?
-what is the supply loop impedance?
-what RCD protection is already in place? will it be used for the garage or bypassed?
I am not trying to bamboozle you with questions but I am afraid at some point these things will need considering to get it right.......
Alucidnation said:
Naaahhh it'll be fine.
Just bung a 20A in the house CU and dont worry about the safety aspect.
Much, much easier to sign up to a motoring forum rather than get someone who knows what they are doing to see the job first hand.
Just bung a 20A in the house CU and dont worry about the safety aspect.
Much, much easier to sign up to a motoring forum rather than get someone who knows what they are doing to see the job first hand.
Nice one... My first proper laugh of the day !
viscountdallara said:
Alucidnation said:
Naaahhh it'll be fine.
Just bung a 20A in the house CU and don't worry about the safety aspect.
Much, much easier to sign up to a motoring forum rather than get someone who knows what they are doing to see the job first hand.
Just bung a 20A in the house CU and don't worry about the safety aspect.
Much, much easier to sign up to a motoring forum rather than get someone who knows what they are doing to see the job first hand.
Nice one... My first proper laugh of the day !
And probably best sums up what the electricians have been saying ! So you know nothing about electrics, but want to wire up a workshop???
Always amazes me when people want to DIY/bodge electrics when they dont have a clue what they are doing.
And no im not going to give you any clues as i dont want to be blamed when you still bodge it up and end up in court having killed someone.....
Always amazes me when people want to DIY/bodge electrics when they dont have a clue what they are doing.
And no im not going to give you any clues as i dont want to be blamed when you still bodge it up and end up in court having killed someone.....
Alucidnation said:
Naaahhh it'll be fine.
Just bung a 20A in the house CU and dont worry about the safety aspect.
Much, much easier to sign up to a motoring forum rather than get someone who knows what they are doing to see the job first hand.
Quite. For a proper beasting, the OP needs to post his question on the Screwfix Electricians' forum.Just bung a 20A in the house CU and dont worry about the safety aspect.
Much, much easier to sign up to a motoring forum rather than get someone who knows what they are doing to see the job first hand.
If the OP is using armoured, I think it has to be a minimum level underground and ideally routed in something like 50mm corrugated tubing. Don't underestimate the work to dig that channel out and run the cable. I've done broadcast wiring in the past, but pulling armoured was hardwork, but a cable spinner made it easier.
We shall be building a timber garage in our new house. I'm not an electrician and I'm working on the below design. I will either wire this myself and get a electrician to double check it or pay an electrician to do it all. Obviously the latter is preferable.
Not far off what you want to do and its a work in progress. Just realized that my diagram doesn't show my freezer. Each element (Internal lighting, external lighting, internal sockets and internal sockets) will jhave its own breaker and the compressor will have its own dedicated breaker as that is probably the most power hungry thing in there.
We shall be building a timber garage in our new house. I'm not an electrician and I'm working on the below design. I will either wire this myself and get a electrician to double check it or pay an electrician to do it all. Obviously the latter is preferable.
Not far off what you want to do and its a work in progress. Just realized that my diagram doesn't show my freezer. Each element (Internal lighting, external lighting, internal sockets and internal sockets) will jhave its own breaker and the compressor will have its own dedicated breaker as that is probably the most power hungry thing in there.
Edited by bakerstreet on Thursday 7th September 09:44
bakerstreet said:
If the OP is using armoured, I think it has to be a minimum level underground and ideally routed in something like 50mm corrugated tubing. Don't underestimate the work to dig that channel out and run the cable. I've done broadcast wiring in the past, but pulling armoured was hardwork, but a cable spinner made it easier.
We shall be building a timber garage in our new house. I'm not an electrician and I'm working on the below design. I will either wire this myself and get a electrician to double check it or pay an electrician to do it all. Obviously the latter is preferable.
Not far off what you want to do and its a work in progress. Just realized that my diagram doesn't show my freezer. Each element (Internal lighting, external lighting, internal sockets and internal sockets) will jhave its own breaker and the compressor will have its own dedicated breaker as that is probably the most power hungry thing in there.
I am curious, why do your internal and external lights appear to be on rings? And the wiring to the sockets looks odd too? Do you on want an override/isolator on the external lights?We shall be building a timber garage in our new house. I'm not an electrician and I'm working on the below design. I will either wire this myself and get a electrician to double check it or pay an electrician to do it all. Obviously the latter is preferable.
Not far off what you want to do and its a work in progress. Just realized that my diagram doesn't show my freezer. Each element (Internal lighting, external lighting, internal sockets and internal sockets) will jhave its own breaker and the compressor will have its own dedicated breaker as that is probably the most power hungry thing in there.
Edited by bakerstreet on Thursday 7th September 09:44
EDIT: ignore the comment on the sockets, I realised the gray boxes are not wiring........
I think that's just how I've done the lines on the diagram. I've totted up all the materials and its surprising how much it all came to. Think it was something like £450 based on 6 tube lights with LED filaments. I'm also using fairly basic switches.
Bugger, just realized I've forgotten an earth rod and cover on my speadsheet and my design
Bugger, just realized I've forgotten an earth rod and cover on my speadsheet and my design
The sparky vultures are circling you Mr bakerstreet. Don't you show any weakness or they'll be swooping in to peck your eyeballs out.
I assume the high horse is standard issue once you qualify. Comes as part of a package along with new batteries for your megger tester as they're flat from zapping your mates. Oh and one of those little light up screwdrivers that you leave in the bottom of your toolbox to remind you of how superior you are to any DIYer.
I assume the high horse is standard issue once you qualify. Comes as part of a package along with new batteries for your megger tester as they're flat from zapping your mates. Oh and one of those little light up screwdrivers that you leave in the bottom of your toolbox to remind you of how superior you are to any DIYer.
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