Home automation

[Dee_Pend2]

As much as the simplicity of a single provider solution appeals - one installer, one company, one controller to control everything etc, my fear is that, if there is a problem, you potential lose everything - your security system, your lights, electric gates, home cinema set up, heating etc - until the problem is resolved.

Is that a real risk that I should be worried about?

[VEX]

Dee_Pend2 said:

As much as the simplicity of a single provider solution appeals - one installer, one company, one controller to control everything etc, my fear is that, if there is a problem, you potential lose everything - your security system, your lights, electric gates, home cinema set up, heating etc - until the problem is resolved.

Is that a real risk that I should be worried about?

In my pro opinion yes and no.

NO - Single provider makes integration and getting what you want, how you want it and advantage.
YES - Single hardware provider and integration puts you at a higher risk (IMHO) of product being dropped, End of Life, Unsupported crashing the whole system around you. Unless you go high end Crestron type hardware, I prefer to offer best of breed solutions for each area, lighting, Heating, Audio, CCTV, Video etc then provide a single control layer or simple point of control. Then if something drops off, it can be replaced and the control layer reprogrammed without effecting the rest of it. Equally I find most of my clients dont actually want / need a control layer and are happy with a 'house' folder on thier tablet / phone with the different apps in.

It is only if you want them to talk to each other do you really need to look at integration and a control layer - and with some systems that doesnt even need hardware!

HTH

V.

[chasingracecars]

The problem with Nest is google bought them and the API was removed so you have to talk to it through a google home device. While you can do that with the likes of other systems then Crestron we pulled the Nest on principle. Also the cost of the google home device was almost the cost of the change of thermostat.

[felixgogo]

I asked a similar question a few years ago, when the IFTT 'thing' was taking off. For various reasons, it seems the situation around home automation is in fact worse now than it was then!

I wanted a single system, but just could not find anything that ticked all the boxes - and remote control was further complicated by a lodger who may or may not change position of switches - so a hue type solution was out for lighting.

Present set up:

Heating - Evohome
Cameras - Nest
Smoke Alarms - Nest
Lighting - local 4 way socket controllers on table lamps. Still in use as no suitable alternative

Now Nest has been taken over by google - it seems the promised but not yet delivered Nest Secure home alarm system has also sunk without trace.

I had been looking at a new alarm and hung on for the Nest one - but now I'm not sure where to go.

I am thinking a local iPad running the various apps is the way to go for control, Google Nest hub and Amazon Echo show seem to be too limiting.

It's a nightmare!

[dhutch]

Yes. I mean what you want imo, is a suitable standard or defacto std communication system, through which various unrelated kit can operate. Like HDMI with CEC/HEAC/ARC, to allow 'basic' interoperation between devices. Because actually most of the interoperation you want is fairly basic, from a fire alarm or even cctv you likely just want an alert, an music/av system probably only needs to interface audio/video/volume, then you can interfact directly for things like changing track.

Obviously this sort of how IFTTT was meant to work, but at the moment its not overly well joined up, combined with obvious basic omission from proprietary systems.

For instance, if I cast a youtube video to an chromecast audio, rather than getting the video on my laptop and the sound on my speakers, I get a black screen on the laptop because its expecting it to be a chromecast with video capability and me to view it on that.


Daniel

[Dee_Pend2]

VEX said:

In my pro opinion yes and no.

NO - Single provider makes integration and getting what you want, how you want it and advantage.
YES - Single hardware provider and integration puts you at a higher risk (IMHO) of product being dropped, End of Life, Unsupported crashing the whole system around you. Unless you go high end Crestron type hardware, I prefer to offer best of breed solutions for each area, lighting, Heating, Audio, CCTV, Video etc then provide a single control layer or simple point of control. Then if something drops off, it can be replaced and the control layer reprogrammed without effecting the rest of it. Equally I find most of my clients dont actually want / need a control layer and are happy with a 'house' folder on thier tablet / phone with the different apps in.

It is only if you want them to talk to each other do you really need to look at integration and a control layer - and with some systems that doesnt even need hardware!

HTH

V.

I think this is the case for us - we want to be able to control things in one place, rather than having to take multiple control units from room to room, but happy to use different applications to control different things!

[paulrockliffe]

dhutch said:

For instance, if I cast a youtube video to an chromecast audio, rather than getting the video on my laptop and the sound on my speakers, I get a black screen on the laptop because its expecting it to be a chromecast with video capability and me to view it on that.

That really annoys me, my Laptop has terrible speakers, so I want to use Chromecast to the ceiling speakers.

IFTTT is too limited because it doesn't store the state of devices on their server, just acts when a state arrives, so you can't do any of the simple stuff like add conditions. It has it's uses, but again it's very annoying.

[57 Chevy]

Dee_Pend2 said:

As much as the simplicity of a single provider solution appeals - one installer, one company, one controller to control everything etc, my fear is that, if there is a problem, you potential lose everything - your security system, your lights, electric gates, home cinema set up, heating etc - until the problem is resolved.

Is that a real risk that I should be worried about?

I use Apple Homekit, so I have multiple systems (Hue, Tradfri, Eve, Velux) all controlled from one place.

[dmsims]

57 Chevy said:

I use Apple Homekit

which is a dead duck(parrot)

[VEX]

57 Chevy said:

I use Apple Homekit, so I have multiple systems (Hue, Tradfri, Eve, Velux) all controlled from one place.

I paid a techie A level student in my village to look at Homekit a couple of years ago and it still has the same issue we came up with then, almost every device it wants to talk to has its own hub to provide the interface between Homekit and the device you want to control. It had the potential to improve when that changed to allowing software security but it hasnt really come to the fore.

At least now there seems to be an agreement between the big boys to produce a common formate / platform, but it will be a while coming and will we still need multiple hubs?

V.

[JeffreyD]

Thought I'd resurrect an old thread rather than start afresh.

We're moving house and priority number one is a security system with remote locks on 5 external doors, video entry and maybe a couple of window sensors.
Next phase will be heating - and ideally integration with Sonos and the smart TV. Although not so bothered if they don't integrate as long as they don't interfere with each other.

Is there any system that stands out?

Thanks in advance

[rxe]

In my experience, this stuff gets overtaken by events so fast. A decade ago, a mate had some sort of install done, and the centre piece was the ability to pipe Sky all over the house, and it was terribly clever - and very expensive.

The downside is that the only people who watch TV in the house are him and his missus in the living room. His kids prefer iPads and headphones.

[dickymint]

rxe said:

In my experience, this stuff gets overtaken by events so fast. A decade ago, a mate had some sort of install done, and the centre piece was the ability to pipe Sky all over the house, and it was terribly clever - and very expensive.

The downside is that the only people who watch TV in the house are him and his missus in the living room. His kids prefer iPads and headphones.

and now we don't need the "pipes"

[Zoon]

rxe said:

A decade ago, a mate had some sort of install done, and the centre piece was the ability to pipe Sky all over the house, and it was terribly clever - and very expensive.

Isn't it called Sky Q?

I know it's only been out five years.

[C70R]

Doesn't Hive have most of this (heating, lighting, security) covered under one ecosystem at the moment?

If you combine with something like Alexa, you can make this stuff more accessible (and link it into things like Sonos for AV).

[JeffreyD]

C70R said:

Doesn't Hive have most of this (heating, lighting, security) covered under one ecosystem at the moment?

If you combine with something like Alexa, you can make this stuff more accessible (and link it into things like Sonos for AV).

I spent the night looking at Access Control systems and I'm struggling to find anything integrated so I may just treat that as separate issue as it needs to be very reliabl


Then I suppose the main decision is whether I stick with Sonos, change horses as I need more rooms now or mix and match.

[C70R]

JeffreyD said:

C70R said:

Doesn't Hive have most of this (heating, lighting, security) covered under one ecosystem at the moment?

If you combine with something like Alexa, you can make this stuff more accessible (and link it into things like Sonos for AV).

I spent the night looking at Access Control systems and I'm struggling to find anything integrated so I may just treat that as separate issue as it needs to be very reliabl


Then I suppose the main decision is whether I stick with Sonos, change horses as I need more rooms now or mix and match.

Yale seemed like the best solution for Smart/Keyless door locks when I last looked, but admittedly this isn't in scope for my upcoming project.

I'm a huge Sonos fan. I had some connectivity issues which were resolved when I upgraded to a Mesh Network. Although I still have one stubborn Alexa device which refuses to talk to its Sonos mate in the same room. I'll live with it.

[JeffreyD]

C70R said:

Yale seemed like the best solution for Smart/Keyless door locks when I last looked, but admittedly this isn't in scope for my upcoming project.

I'm a huge Sonos fan. I had some connectivity issues which were resolved when I upgraded to a Mesh Network. Although I still have one stubborn Alexa device which refuses to talk to its Sonos mate in the same room. I'll live with it.

I really like Sonos as well BUT for the majority of use (which is listening to the radio and having some background music on) the google and alexa stuff is easily good enough and way cheaper.

So if I need 4 or 5 more zones then the difference becomes pretty significant for marginal gains.

[C70R]

JeffreyD said:

C70R said:

Yale seemed like the best solution for Smart/Keyless door locks when I last looked, but admittedly this isn't in scope for my upcoming project.

I'm a huge Sonos fan. I had some connectivity issues which were resolved when I upgraded to a Mesh Network. Although I still have one stubborn Alexa device which refuses to talk to its Sonos mate in the same room. I'll live with it.

I really like Sonos as well BUT for the majority of use (which is listening to the radio and having some background music on) the google and alexa stuff is easily good enough and way cheaper.

So if I need 4 or 5 more zones then the difference becomes pretty significant for marginal gains.

Perfectly fair. I like to listen to music loud as well as in the background, and I'm a bit of a luddite when it comes to sound quality.

I don't find the Alexa kit that I have sounds good when you turn the volume up a little. Sonos works for me, but it may not for others.

My only disappointment with Sonos is that I bought all of my speakers (apart from the Beam) before the Alexa hardware integration. I'll get around to replacing them with Ones eventually.

[AF07]

JeffreyD said:

I spent the night looking at Access Control systems and I'm struggling to find anything integrated so I may just treat that as separate issue as it needs to be very reliabl


Then I suppose the main decision is whether I stick with Sonos, change horses as I need more rooms now or mix and match.

Have a look on the ultion website, they have a smart section. What kind of doors do you have currently?

If it’s a traditional style where you have to lift up the handle to move the latches around the door into place, then the solution isn’t as great from what I found.

My front door just had a swindle (think it’s called escutcheon) that you keep turning to lock/unlock and also physically open the door.

The ultion smart lock works perfectly for this as it just automated the turning, so I can lock/unlock/open from anywhere in the world. Top it off with a contact sensor so you know if the door is physically open or closed. I haven’t used my door key once since getting it.