Home automation
Discussion
PinkFatBunny said:
I'm just about to move into a property that has a Vantage Infusion system fitted to control all the lights, heating, cctv, electric gates, apple tv, sky, ceiling speakers etc. The little touch screens dotted around look nice enough.
No idea how its going to integrate with my Sonos gear, probably end up running the audio separate via ipads/alexa.
Vantage is quite often put in by building firms as it’s more based on the heating side of things. It’s not a bad system. Give Vantage a call and find a dealer. I am sure they will be more then happy to help you intergrate the Sonos system. Also helps if there are any problems you know who to call. No idea how its going to integrate with my Sonos gear, probably end up running the audio separate via ipads/alexa.
B17NNS said:
Heating - Evohome
Lighting - Hue
AV - Harmony
If you want switches and sockets - Lightwave RF
All controllable via app or your voice assistant of choice.
All the above for the Home enthusiast.Lighting - Hue
AV - Harmony
If you want switches and sockets - Lightwave RF
All controllable via app or your voice assistant of choice.
Control4 or Crestron Control everything from one app, or voice.
Heating - Anything
Lighting - Any lights
AV - Anything
Sockets - Anything
chasingracecars said:
B17NNS said:
Heating - Evohome
Lighting - Hue
AV - Harmony
If you want switches and sockets - Lightwave RF
All controllable via app or your voice assistant of choice.
All the above for the Home enthusiast.Lighting - Hue
AV - Harmony
If you want switches and sockets - Lightwave RF
All controllable via app or your voice assistant of choice.
Control4 or Crestron Control everything from one app, or voice.
Heating - Anything
Lighting - Any lights
AV - Anything
Sockets - Anything
I've shied off the Grand Designs automation due to cost and obsolesence on any tech using hardwired control. On the other hand the cheap home hubs all seem to rely on a live internet connection. I've seen open source software to build your own automation server, but honestly while again I might enjoy doing that it is not exactly a selling point.
What would you say is the usable lifetime of the Control4 kit? How long are they supported with interface updates and new control protocols? Is that free lifetime downloads or do you have to maintain a support contract?
I know of Control4 processors that are 10 years and older, mine is 8 years old.
They have launched two new ranges of processors and still support the old ones.
My HC800 previous generation crashed big time last year, one of the Control4 techs dialled in and rebuilt the whole unit from the ground up over teamviewer.
I program these and the levels he went to support a small dealer were superb. He could have sold me the new processor.
Dealer support from the manufacturer is excellent, get a good dealer and your service will be too.
Crestron systems seem to last until they knock the place down, but they are expensive.
They have launched two new ranges of processors and still support the old ones.
My HC800 previous generation crashed big time last year, one of the Control4 techs dialled in and rebuilt the whole unit from the ground up over teamviewer.
I program these and the levels he went to support a small dealer were superb. He could have sold me the new processor.
Dealer support from the manufacturer is excellent, get a good dealer and your service will be too.
Crestron systems seem to last until they knock the place down, but they are expensive.
Edited by chasingracecars on Thursday 4th January 15:50
chasingracecars said:
Alexa is an intelligent personal assistant developed by Amazon, first used in the Amazon Echo and the Amazon Echo Dot devices developed by Amazon Lab126. It is capable of voice interaction, music playback, making to-do lists, setting alarms, streaming podcasts, playing audiobooks, and providing weather, traffic, and other real-time information, such as news.[2] Alexa can also control several smart devices using itself as a home automation system.
Control4 develops smart home automation systems to control lighting, entertainment, security, energy, and other connected devices.[1] The company's 2013 initial public offering was considered to be the 'first pure-play home automation IPO ever.
Note that Alexa's last use is home automation system.
I would like all those who think they know better to have my job! Go one then, if you can do better.
So you agree with me then "Alexa can also control several smart devices using itself as a home automation system."Control4 develops smart home automation systems to control lighting, entertainment, security, energy, and other connected devices.[1] The company's 2013 initial public offering was considered to be the 'first pure-play home automation IPO ever.
Note that Alexa's last use is home automation system.
I would like all those who think they know better to have my job! Go one then, if you can do better.
Sorry you assume that you are an expert in a field that nobody knows nothing about.
chasingracecars said:
I know of Control4 processors that are 10 years and older, mine is 8 years old.
They have launched two new ranges of processors and still support the old ones.
My HC800 previous generation crashed big time last year, one of the Control4 techs dialled in and rebuilt the whole unit from the ground up over teamviewer.
I program these and the levels he went to support a small dealer were superb. He could have sold me the new processor.
Dealer support from the manufacturer is excellent, get a good dealer and your service will be too.
Thanks, sounds like a get what you pay for situation, I'll spend some time looking into it.They have launched two new ranges of processors and still support the old ones.
My HC800 previous generation crashed big time last year, one of the Control4 techs dialled in and rebuilt the whole unit from the ground up over teamviewer.
I program these and the levels he went to support a small dealer were superb. He could have sold me the new processor.
Dealer support from the manufacturer is excellent, get a good dealer and your service will be too.
Hello,
New to PH, have joined up for help on home control as everytime I google this stuff Pistonheads comes up and I'm hoping you can help as there is way too much information out there, much of it written from the perspective of the brand selling the stuff rather than users! I'm replying to this thread as it is very similar to our situation. We want a level of control but would prefer to go down the Apple/Google/Alexa route with a Cat 6 infrastructure rather than wireless.
We've looked at Loxone but it feels like it will be quickly overtaken and obsolete once the tech giants get their act together. Also, we aren't massively fussed about automation, happy to use separate apps to control stuff and don't feel like we need extensive integration between them. We are happy to tinker to add some extra features but want functional and reliable basics. If I tell you what we've thought about so far I hope you can help!
1. Lighting - like the look of Rako, want scenes and the ability to programme things to come on at a certain time, to be able to do the holiday settings and if we get an alert from a security camera use the Rako app to work the lights to give the appearance that someone is home. We don't necessarily need it everywhere but would go for the Wired version as it offers more control. Our kitchen/living diner will have a lot of circuits (can Rako handle this?). We will also stick a touchscreen in there to view tho is at the gate and control the lighting.
2. Heating - we are having underfloor heating, the house will be well insulated so the temperature will be a low constant so therefore don't need the 'if I am half an hour away turn the heating on' function. Heatmiser looks good.
3. Security - Hikvision cameras maybe. We don't want to pay a subscription, just an alert if something is seen. Don't need to store a ton of footage either.
4. Alarm - a conventional system that meets insurance criteria.
5. Garage & entrance gate - remote control opening is fine. Need to be able to see who is at the gate and open the gate even when we are away from the property.
6. AV - We will have 3 rooms where we could watch TV and would like to be able to view Sky Q, Freeview channels, Blueray and streamed content such as Netflix on any of the TVs. We also have a games console but would imagine that will be mainly in one room and moved around where necessary. Do we need Control4 or RTI for this and if we go for one of those should we control the lighting with it as well? The multifunctional kitchen/live/diner will need decent speakers and may be too big for Sonos unless we spend a lot on Sonos so need to think about speakers. A soundbar will be fine for the TV in that room. Is Sonos OK with Apple? Is there something else we should consider? We have Apple music (could switch to Spotify) and a lot of stuff on iTunes match. We have a B&W 5:1 system that's about 7 years old that we could use in the TV/cinema room (this isn't a proper cinema room but we are tempted to get a projector as well as a TV).
WiFi - good coverage throughout - the walls are very well insulated so we need to get this right.
KNX has been mentioned to us but that feels like it is more of a commercial solution and CAT 6 seems to make more sense if we don't need full automation but just want home control. What I am hoping you can do is sanity check the above suggestions, tell us if you think there is something better/something cheaper/something more reliable? If you think we are crazy not to go full automation that would be good to hear and also any advice on how to ensure we futureproof what we are doing so that this will last a long time and we can keep adding to it/improving on it as the technology develops. We'd like to focus our budget on good quality TVs and sound, lighting that gives the house 'wow' factor than having my heating learn what I am doing and when. I am finding this really confusing and as we are planning on staying in the house long-term I don't want to make a mistake and not wire it properly or pick something that is cutting edge but will frequently go wrong. We had a disaster with early remote control lighting ten years ago and luckily had put conventional wiring in as a back-up so I am very wary of style over substance.
Really appreciate any advice from the experts!
Thanks!
New to PH, have joined up for help on home control as everytime I google this stuff Pistonheads comes up and I'm hoping you can help as there is way too much information out there, much of it written from the perspective of the brand selling the stuff rather than users! I'm replying to this thread as it is very similar to our situation. We want a level of control but would prefer to go down the Apple/Google/Alexa route with a Cat 6 infrastructure rather than wireless.
We've looked at Loxone but it feels like it will be quickly overtaken and obsolete once the tech giants get their act together. Also, we aren't massively fussed about automation, happy to use separate apps to control stuff and don't feel like we need extensive integration between them. We are happy to tinker to add some extra features but want functional and reliable basics. If I tell you what we've thought about so far I hope you can help!
1. Lighting - like the look of Rako, want scenes and the ability to programme things to come on at a certain time, to be able to do the holiday settings and if we get an alert from a security camera use the Rako app to work the lights to give the appearance that someone is home. We don't necessarily need it everywhere but would go for the Wired version as it offers more control. Our kitchen/living diner will have a lot of circuits (can Rako handle this?). We will also stick a touchscreen in there to view tho is at the gate and control the lighting.
2. Heating - we are having underfloor heating, the house will be well insulated so the temperature will be a low constant so therefore don't need the 'if I am half an hour away turn the heating on' function. Heatmiser looks good.
3. Security - Hikvision cameras maybe. We don't want to pay a subscription, just an alert if something is seen. Don't need to store a ton of footage either.
4. Alarm - a conventional system that meets insurance criteria.
5. Garage & entrance gate - remote control opening is fine. Need to be able to see who is at the gate and open the gate even when we are away from the property.
6. AV - We will have 3 rooms where we could watch TV and would like to be able to view Sky Q, Freeview channels, Blueray and streamed content such as Netflix on any of the TVs. We also have a games console but would imagine that will be mainly in one room and moved around where necessary. Do we need Control4 or RTI for this and if we go for one of those should we control the lighting with it as well? The multifunctional kitchen/live/diner will need decent speakers and may be too big for Sonos unless we spend a lot on Sonos so need to think about speakers. A soundbar will be fine for the TV in that room. Is Sonos OK with Apple? Is there something else we should consider? We have Apple music (could switch to Spotify) and a lot of stuff on iTunes match. We have a B&W 5:1 system that's about 7 years old that we could use in the TV/cinema room (this isn't a proper cinema room but we are tempted to get a projector as well as a TV).
WiFi - good coverage throughout - the walls are very well insulated so we need to get this right.
KNX has been mentioned to us but that feels like it is more of a commercial solution and CAT 6 seems to make more sense if we don't need full automation but just want home control. What I am hoping you can do is sanity check the above suggestions, tell us if you think there is something better/something cheaper/something more reliable? If you think we are crazy not to go full automation that would be good to hear and also any advice on how to ensure we futureproof what we are doing so that this will last a long time and we can keep adding to it/improving on it as the technology develops. We'd like to focus our budget on good quality TVs and sound, lighting that gives the house 'wow' factor than having my heating learn what I am doing and when. I am finding this really confusing and as we are planning on staying in the house long-term I don't want to make a mistake and not wire it properly or pick something that is cutting edge but will frequently go wrong. We had a disaster with early remote control lighting ten years ago and luckily had put conventional wiring in as a back-up so I am very wary of style over substance.
Really appreciate any advice from the experts!
Thanks!
Thought I'd update on where I have got to with my new home 'project'. I decided to visit a few of HA/AV specialists to see what they would recommend as a solution and one stood out in terms of talking my language and understanding my caution. I am still awaiting a written quote so I'm working from my notes, but the upshot was Control 4 to manage the lighting and blinds in one big open plan area but to rely on switches and PIR elsewhere, this will also control the entrance gate.
Sonos ceiling speakers (angled behind covers) in most downstairs rooms and a Sony projector for the cinema room with other items yet to be confirmed. Stuff loads of Cat6 everywhere and some fibre optic (dormant) to the 4 rooms where we will have telly's to future proof, I will also have to invest in a decent router with some black market boosters (they won't supply because of broadcasting regs) around the place. I will provide more detail as and when (and an idea of cost) but the upshot was that if you can start from scratch Hue is a waste of money, with wet UFH heating control is less of an issue and Alexa (or equivalents) are all well and good but ultimately compromised.
The other people I visited wanted to sell me the earth and tried to prey on my ignorance, one actually suggested that I go fibre optic everywhere as it's the only viable future proof option (even I know that's prohibitively expensive). I hope this helps and will share more detail when I have it.
Sonos ceiling speakers (angled behind covers) in most downstairs rooms and a Sony projector for the cinema room with other items yet to be confirmed. Stuff loads of Cat6 everywhere and some fibre optic (dormant) to the 4 rooms where we will have telly's to future proof, I will also have to invest in a decent router with some black market boosters (they won't supply because of broadcasting regs) around the place. I will provide more detail as and when (and an idea of cost) but the upshot was that if you can start from scratch Hue is a waste of money, with wet UFH heating control is less of an issue and Alexa (or equivalents) are all well and good but ultimately compromised.
The other people I visited wanted to sell me the earth and tried to prey on my ignorance, one actually suggested that I go fibre optic everywhere as it's the only viable future proof option (even I know that's prohibitively expensive). I hope this helps and will share more detail when I have it.
B17NNS said:
dmsims said:
The integration with conventional switches is a big fat zero and a massive fail
Switches? In 2018? Use your voice man 
Blue62 said:
I am looking for a reliable solution on my new build, primarily want to control sound, lighting, security and heating. I have a healthy scepticism based a wealthy friends experience a few years ago, he spent a fortune and has now ripped most of the system out because of reliability issues.
I am going to run miles of Cat6 into the ceiling voids but have noticed that the new Sonos speakers incorporate Amazon Alexa and I was thinking that it could provide an affordable solution to cover most of what I want, provided (I assume) I run it alongside Hue/Hive etc. Initially I was thinking about ceiling/wall speakers through Sonos or similar and a separate lighting solution like Lutron, but beginning to wonder if that is now being superseded. Any advice out there appreciated.
Lots of views already offered. I’ll offer mine which is based on what we have. I am going to run miles of Cat6 into the ceiling voids but have noticed that the new Sonos speakers incorporate Amazon Alexa and I was thinking that it could provide an affordable solution to cover most of what I want, provided (I assume) I run it alongside Hue/Hive etc. Initially I was thinking about ceiling/wall speakers through Sonos or similar and a separate lighting solution like Lutron, but beginning to wonder if that is now being superseded. Any advice out there appreciated.
Voice control: we are using Echoes and Echo Dots. Cheap and they work.
Audio: Sonos. A mix of speaker units (Play 3/5s), Sonos amps plus speakers (shelf/wall/ceiling) and Sonos connects into existing amps. Broadly: kids and spare bedrooms get speaker units, where there was an amp already, use that, and otherwise use a connect amp plus speakers. Bathrooms have wall or ceiling speakers with the amp located outside the bathroom somewhere. Speakers are Anthony Gallo A’Divas or Stradas.
The downside here is that when you ask Alexa to control something, as soon as you say “Alexa” it kills the audio on every running Sonos for a few seconds so that it can hear what you’re about to say. Annoying if you’re listening to something and someone else is Alexa’ing.
AV: tried the Harmony hub and sent it back. The app then meant the commands were “Alexa tell Harmony to turn the TV on”. Clunky. And it didn’t kill the audio as Sonos does so once the TV was running you lost control as it couldn’t hear you. It may have got better since, but a harmony 900 remote is good enough.
Lights. Lamps and plug in lights: went for TP Link plugs. These work well. They talk directly to Alexa in that no hub is required and they each take an IP address (note that if you like to reserve IP addresses many routers max out at 64, and it is easy to exceed this number. My next project is to give everything. I can static IP addresses in a band excluded from DHCP handouts. Saving that for a very rainy day).
Generally speaking I don’t see the need to control sockets outside lamps in the living room (eg kitchen stuff, AV stuff is always left on). The LightwaveRF sockets present a visually nicer solution but I am not sure I’d want a mix (some white plastic and some brushed metal) of wall sockets through the house.
Ceiling lights. Looked at Hive and Hue but in the end went for LightwaveRF Gen 2 wall switches as the neatest solution. By the end of the weekend I will have six of these. They all talk to a hub (the link plus) which seems to have a good range (ground to second floor no problems). Good if slightly fiddly automation on these to get them to come on in the morning automatically. It’s nice being able to turn off the kids bedroom lights remotely because they certainly never bother. The end game is to be able to shut down all the lights by voice, as I walk out the front door.
Heating. Never seen the need for this. We don’t have thermostats on individual rads so just have a timer and an easily accessible dial thermostat.
Cameras/security. Again, don’t currently have a desire/need. We don’t have a drive and often can’t park outside the house (welcome to London) so watching the cars wouldn’t be very easy.
ETA: Alexa also works well as an intercom to get the kids to come down for meals. Better than yelling up the stairs through their closed bedroom doors and over their Sonos.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 27th January 11:58
B17NNS said:
Greg66 said:
AV: tried the Harmony hub and sent it back. The app then meant the commands were “Alexa tell Harmony to turn the TV on”. Clunky.
Did you install both skills?Alexa turn on Sky TV, Alexa turn on AV amp etc all work fine for me. No need for the 'tell Harmony to'.
Greg66 said:
No - when I got it there were two skills but the better one was only available in the US with no indication of when it would be available in the UK.
Ah, okay. Might be worth a re-visit if that was your only gripe. Took me some setting up mind what with sorting all the delays but now it just sits there and works as expected.B17NNS said:
Greg66 said:
No - when I got it there were two skills but the better one was only available in the US with no indication of when it would be available in the UK.
Ah, okay. Might be worth a re-visit if that was your only gripe. Took me some setting up mind what with sorting all the delays but now it just sits there and works as expected.The Harmony IR remote we use has shortcuts (lovingly) set up that power up the TV, the AV Amp, Apple TV, or the TV, the PVR, the AV Amp; all set the right inputs so that they work. As long as you have line of sight and press the right button (which is something that Mrs 66 finds oddly difficult to manage, preferring to wave the remote as if it is a wand whilst pressing as many buttons as takes her fancy) it all works fine. And everything can be controlled individually from apps on our iphones, so AV control with Alexa isn't a big priority.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff