Any interest in a Passive House build thread?
Discussion
I think I've seen a couple of mentions of passive houses and/or energy neutral houses in this part of the forum. I enjoy reading all the build threads with a not inconsiderable amount of jealousy art your talents, vision and massive swathes of land, it must be said!
We're in the process of building (i.e., having built for us) a passive house (or more accurately, a Minergie-P house here in Switzerland.
If there is suitable interest, I might try to turn this into a build thread, although I'm pretty hopeless at updating things and I do seem to be the ultimate 'thread killer' on PH where a post by myself seems to kill all discussion dead!
What is a Passive house? Read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house
Essentially, it's a very well sealed, highly insulated energy efficient building, using well managed air circulation, heat exchangers, geothermal heating and use of solar panels to provide energy. In theory, our build should be energy neutral, i.e. no more electricity bills! But I'm not expecting this to be the case, plus our electricity is pretty cheap and comes from hydroelectric sources- so pretty green!
That's not to say I'm a green hippy ecomentalist- this is just the general trend here in Switzerland; most new builds are Minergie (low energy consumption).
Anyway, there we have it!
We're in the process of building (i.e., having built for us) a passive house (or more accurately, a Minergie-P house here in Switzerland.
If there is suitable interest, I might try to turn this into a build thread, although I'm pretty hopeless at updating things and I do seem to be the ultimate 'thread killer' on PH where a post by myself seems to kill all discussion dead!
What is a Passive house? Read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house
Essentially, it's a very well sealed, highly insulated energy efficient building, using well managed air circulation, heat exchangers, geothermal heating and use of solar panels to provide energy. In theory, our build should be energy neutral, i.e. no more electricity bills! But I'm not expecting this to be the case, plus our electricity is pretty cheap and comes from hydroelectric sources- so pretty green!
That's not to say I'm a green hippy ecomentalist- this is just the general trend here in Switzerland; most new builds are Minergie (low energy consumption).
Anyway, there we have it!
South West Energy Centre (just up the road from me) has a PassivHaus onsite that shows off all the tech. and principals. not sure if you still can but at one point I'm sure you could book it for weekends to stay in. Plus next door they have all the renewable stuff and lots of small companies involved.
Yes definitely.
I'll start the discussion.
Heat recovery ventilation. Claims of nearly 100% efficiency. Is this based on balanceing the air ie 20°c inside and 0°c outside would result in a balanced 10.°c exit flow both sides and not heat extracted.
In a passive house no heating what do you do with air being less than half the house temperature being pumped in.
I'll start the discussion.
Heat recovery ventilation. Claims of nearly 100% efficiency. Is this based on balanceing the air ie 20°c inside and 0°c outside would result in a balanced 10.°c exit flow both sides and not heat extracted.
In a passive house no heating what do you do with air being less than half the house temperature being pumped in.
OK, so I'll make no claims at all about being an energy expert; but I'm aiming to learn as the build progresses.
As far as the ventilation system is concerned, Baz is right, in that in theory you could get close to 99% efficiency. In a house setting, it's more likely to be around 75%. I believe the secret is in the heat exchanger- these days, they are incredibly efficient.
What this system should result in is a far more stable, high air quality environment throughout the home. The air will be constantly circulating, and the house is sealed (and of course heavily insulated)- far better than a regular house.
The heating in our house is geothermal; and the bulk of our electricity needs will come from the solar panels on the roof.
We have friends who live in another Minergie-P house, coincidentally built by the same company that is building ours. From what I gather, temperature remains fairly constant all year round, but it can be difficult to stay cool enough in the summer (it does get quite hot here), and not warm enough in the winter. Time will tell!
I still have to upload some pictures as the first contracts were signed back in April 2017; actual construction began in September. The build should be complete and ready for us to move in at the start of July. My next post will hopefully be a bit more interesting, detailing progress so far, with a few photos. I really hope you guys like concrete. It's the Swiss' favourite substance after cheese and chocolate.
As far as the ventilation system is concerned, Baz is right, in that in theory you could get close to 99% efficiency. In a house setting, it's more likely to be around 75%. I believe the secret is in the heat exchanger- these days, they are incredibly efficient.
What this system should result in is a far more stable, high air quality environment throughout the home. The air will be constantly circulating, and the house is sealed (and of course heavily insulated)- far better than a regular house.
The heating in our house is geothermal; and the bulk of our electricity needs will come from the solar panels on the roof.
We have friends who live in another Minergie-P house, coincidentally built by the same company that is building ours. From what I gather, temperature remains fairly constant all year round, but it can be difficult to stay cool enough in the summer (it does get quite hot here), and not warm enough in the winter. Time will tell!
I still have to upload some pictures as the first contracts were signed back in April 2017; actual construction began in September. The build should be complete and ready for us to move in at the start of July. My next post will hopefully be a bit more interesting, detailing progress so far, with a few photos. I really hope you guys like concrete. It's the Swiss' favourite substance after cheese and chocolate.
Whitean3 said:
We have friends who live in another Minergie-P house, coincidentally built by the same company that is building ours. From what I gather, temperature remains fairly constant all year round, but it can be difficult to stay cool enough in the summer (it does get quite hot here), and not warm enough in the winter. Time will tell!
You're joking surely?wolfracesonic said:
You're joking surely?
No I'm not! Like I said, time will tell. This is only what I have heard from our friends' experience; especially that the floors never get truly warm underfoot in the winter (vs conventional underfloor heating)- depends what you are used to I suppose; and in the summer, you do have to be careful that the house doesn't heat up inside as you will never get it cooled down thanks to the excellent insulation...
)Slight thread hijack; Slovenian company (no links with them at present) ;
https://www.marles.com/hise/en/technical-content/c...
The wall section
https://www.marles.com/hise/en/technical-content/c...
The wall section
Build Thread Part 1: Finding our next home
There are a lot of differences between the UK and the Swiss housing market- not very many properties for sale, as most people rent. Prices are high, and building land anywhere near a big city is almost non-existent. Plus you’ll need at least a 20% deposit and a decent salary.
Another benefit of the Swiss purchasing process is that when you commit to buy, you sign a pre-contract and pay a deposit into escrow. Typically 30-50k CHF. So there is no gazumping or messing about, delaying or being greedy. It works well, but of course you’d need some savings to be ready to go.
Fortunately, we’ve been fairly lucky with steadily moving up the property ladder, having lived rent-free for 12 years (profits more than covering the mortgage payments). Our current apartment (which we moved into 5 years ago) is spacious, in a good location and has a great layout. It could have been perfect.
Unfortunately, we moved in below the neighbours from hell. They can make your life a misery. So we started searching 3 years ago. Nothing appropriate was showing up within our budget; and our criteria were pretty stringent.
Last April, my alerts threw up this:
A small new build development of 5 detached houses. This is fairly typical in Switzerland- a few porperties sharing a communal underground garage. The development was in a fantastic location less than 1 km from our current place, reasonable size and layout, and a bit beyond our budget. Worth a look I thought, so we requested more info.. Next thing you know, we’re on site, looking at plans and figuring out how we can afford to commit to a purchase.
Another benefit of the Swiss purchasing process is that when you commit to buy, you sign a pre-contract and pay a deposit into escrow. Typically 30-50k CHF. So there is no gazumping or messing about, delaying or being greedy. It works well, but of course you’d need some savings to be ready to go.
Part 2 will take you to the building site. Some readers may find this next bit distressing. It still bugs me, despite the promise of the new home…
There are a lot of differences between the UK and the Swiss housing market- not very many properties for sale, as most people rent. Prices are high, and building land anywhere near a big city is almost non-existent. Plus you’ll need at least a 20% deposit and a decent salary.
Another benefit of the Swiss purchasing process is that when you commit to buy, you sign a pre-contract and pay a deposit into escrow. Typically 30-50k CHF. So there is no gazumping or messing about, delaying or being greedy. It works well, but of course you’d need some savings to be ready to go.
Fortunately, we’ve been fairly lucky with steadily moving up the property ladder, having lived rent-free for 12 years (profits more than covering the mortgage payments). Our current apartment (which we moved into 5 years ago) is spacious, in a good location and has a great layout. It could have been perfect.
Unfortunately, we moved in below the neighbours from hell. They can make your life a misery. So we started searching 3 years ago. Nothing appropriate was showing up within our budget; and our criteria were pretty stringent.
Last April, my alerts threw up this:
A small new build development of 5 detached houses. This is fairly typical in Switzerland- a few porperties sharing a communal underground garage. The development was in a fantastic location less than 1 km from our current place, reasonable size and layout, and a bit beyond our budget. Worth a look I thought, so we requested more info.. Next thing you know, we’re on site, looking at plans and figuring out how we can afford to commit to a purchase.
Another benefit of the Swiss purchasing process is that when you commit to buy, you sign a pre-contract and pay a deposit into escrow. Typically 30-50k CHF. So there is no gazumping or messing about, delaying or being greedy. It works well, but of course you’d need some savings to be ready to go.
Part 2 will take you to the building site. Some readers may find this next bit distressing. It still bugs me, despite the promise of the new home…
Build Thread Part 2: Erasing History
As I said in part 1 this is the shameful, distressing part- The building site.
Remember that I said there was basically no building land? Something has to give. Usually a dilapidated crumbling pile gets bulldozed. Had you gone to the site 6 months earlier, you would have been greeted by this:
A really beautiful, enormous, “English Country House style” villa as it would be described. It belonged to the Gerber family, Swiss ‘old money’. A couple of Google Earth screenshots give you an idea of the huge (by Swiss standards) size of the plot:
The villa had been put up for sale, but of course, there are very, very few people with the necessary funds- so there was no interest. They split the land into 2 and sold off one part for redevelopment- bye bye swimming pool and half the garden. More on this part later.
Still there was no interest in the smaller plot though. Now I should really say that, despite the pictures, the house was not in as great shape as it looks on a typically sunny day. It needed a full renovation. So on top of the multi-million price tag, you’d need a couple of million more to invest in the renovation- that’s how expensive it is here.
This is how our property developer, a thoroughly decent chap it must be said, came to acquire the property, purchased for the value of the building land. Interest in the new redevelopment was great- priced pretty competitively for the location and reasonably-sized, family friendly homes.
The first house was snapped up straight away; we were the second party to commit. We signed the pre contract on the patio of the soon-to-be-demolished gorgeous home. If only I had won the lottery!
Part 3 covers the agonizing waiting for demolition to start and building to commence. Time stood still!
As I said in part 1 this is the shameful, distressing part- The building site.
Remember that I said there was basically no building land? Something has to give. Usually a dilapidated crumbling pile gets bulldozed. Had you gone to the site 6 months earlier, you would have been greeted by this:
A really beautiful, enormous, “English Country House style” villa as it would be described. It belonged to the Gerber family, Swiss ‘old money’. A couple of Google Earth screenshots give you an idea of the huge (by Swiss standards) size of the plot:
The villa had been put up for sale, but of course, there are very, very few people with the necessary funds- so there was no interest. They split the land into 2 and sold off one part for redevelopment- bye bye swimming pool and half the garden. More on this part later.
Still there was no interest in the smaller plot though. Now I should really say that, despite the pictures, the house was not in as great shape as it looks on a typically sunny day. It needed a full renovation. So on top of the multi-million price tag, you’d need a couple of million more to invest in the renovation- that’s how expensive it is here.
This is how our property developer, a thoroughly decent chap it must be said, came to acquire the property, purchased for the value of the building land. Interest in the new redevelopment was great- priced pretty competitively for the location and reasonably-sized, family friendly homes.
The first house was snapped up straight away; we were the second party to commit. We signed the pre contract on the patio of the soon-to-be-demolished gorgeous home. If only I had won the lottery!
Part 3 covers the agonizing waiting for demolition to start and building to commence. Time stood still!
Dr G said:
I'm in; I wouldn't class myself a tree-hugger by any stretch either but I am a fan of efficiency and don't like the idea of being wasteful.
Me too. I certainly like the idea of a very high level of insulation, but I would not want an extreme level of airtightness.That, to me, is likely to give an unnatural atmosphere in the house, whereas I want the option of opening windows or arranging ventilation my own way when I want it.
p1esk said:
Dr G said:
I'm in; I wouldn't class myself a tree-hugger by any stretch either but I am a fan of efficiency and don't like the idea of being wasteful.
Me too. I certainly like the idea of a very high level of insulation, but I would not want an extreme level of airtightness.That, to me, is likely to give an unnatural atmosphere in the house, whereas I want the option of opening windows or arranging ventilation my own way when I want it.
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