Derelict Barn(s)
Discussion
We recently moved around 5 miles out of town and have an old farmhouse and associated outbuildings.
ANNEX (CONVERTED BARN)
There is a separate completely self contained annex which was converted from a brick barn in 2012 - planning permission was given on the basis of ancillary accommodation and we pay extra council tax as result. The annex has two bedrooms, its own bathroom and kitchen but the utilities all fall under the main house as it were. Am I correct in understanding that we are unable to rent out and if so, what steps would we need to take to enable us to do so.
DERELICT BARN.
There is also have a single story Dutch barn that is currently in a poor state and would be ideal to convert into a standalone dwelling/dayroom.
Looking at the history of the farm, it appears that there was originally a 3rd barn which formed the 4th part of the quadrangle but there is currently no evidence of it at all - my question is it worth trying to establish the exact type of barn, its size, etc and do we have any right to rebuild one on its original footprint. If so, where would i even begin to look for the original history?
lots of questions as we are looking into feasibility of developing the property mainly for our own use initially but also to leverage its value for the future.
We are based in Worcestershire and fall under Wychavon Council for what its worth.
ANNEX (CONVERTED BARN)
There is a separate completely self contained annex which was converted from a brick barn in 2012 - planning permission was given on the basis of ancillary accommodation and we pay extra council tax as result. The annex has two bedrooms, its own bathroom and kitchen but the utilities all fall under the main house as it were. Am I correct in understanding that we are unable to rent out and if so, what steps would we need to take to enable us to do so.
DERELICT BARN.
There is also have a single story Dutch barn that is currently in a poor state and would be ideal to convert into a standalone dwelling/dayroom.
Looking at the history of the farm, it appears that there was originally a 3rd barn which formed the 4th part of the quadrangle but there is currently no evidence of it at all - my question is it worth trying to establish the exact type of barn, its size, etc and do we have any right to rebuild one on its original footprint. If so, where would i even begin to look for the original history?
lots of questions as we are looking into feasibility of developing the property mainly for our own use initially but also to leverage its value for the future.
We are based in Worcestershire and fall under Wychavon Council for what its worth.
Probably one of the most complex and confusing areas of Planning that there is.
Class Q Permitted Development rights, in particular, are a minefield, with numerous differences in how they are interpreted from Authority to Authority. I've been ranting at my Planning Director just this morning, on this very subject, as it happens - I can feel a blog piece coming on for our website!
Don't even think about relying on an Architect alone - you definitely need a Planning Consultant, for that sort of work.
Annex: yes, you are correct that you can't rent it out. Depending on how the original consent was worded, you would probably need to make a Section 73 Application to remove the restrictive Planning Condition, in order to do so.
Historic Barn: probably irrelevant, though I have known (and indeed, recently worked on) cases where long-demolished buildings were considered relevant to allowable development, so it's difficult to say.
Class Q Permitted Development rights, in particular, are a minefield, with numerous differences in how they are interpreted from Authority to Authority. I've been ranting at my Planning Director just this morning, on this very subject, as it happens - I can feel a blog piece coming on for our website!
Don't even think about relying on an Architect alone - you definitely need a Planning Consultant, for that sort of work.
Annex: yes, you are correct that you can't rent it out. Depending on how the original consent was worded, you would probably need to make a Section 73 Application to remove the restrictive Planning Condition, in order to do so.
Historic Barn: probably irrelevant, though I have known (and indeed, recently worked on) cases where long-demolished buildings were considered relevant to allowable development, so it's difficult to say.
Equus said:
Annex: yes, you are correct that you can't rent it out. Depending on how the original consent was worded, you would probably need to make a Section 73 Application to remove the restrictive Planning Condition, in order to do so.
Planning enforcement does rely on someone dobbing you in though.arguti said:
Not sure if this falls in your catchment area or or do you know any decent planning consultants locally?
Yes, we cover the whole of the south and midlands of the UK. I'm in Norfolk, our Planning Director is Devon, so you're pretty much bang in the middle of the two of us. Our Planning Director is (considerably) easier on the eye and knows (even) more about Planning than I do; I'm a grumpy old bugger, but know more about the design & technical side than she does, so take your pick. 
Until recently I was near Stroud, though, and my 'patch' covered the Cotswolds, Forest of Dean, Malverns and Herefordshire, so I know Wychavon quite well.
Bill said:
Planning enforcement does rely on someone dobbing you in though.
This is very true, but they're getting increasingly linked-up with Planning, council tax/business rates, general tax etc. Bloody computers. Trouble then is, to get away with a breach of the Planning condition, you've effectively got to commit Council tax fraud... which changes the situation from Planning enforcement (submit a retrospective application or stop doing it please!) to a criminal prosecution (go to jail; go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200).
Edited by Equus on Tuesday 16th January 18:04
Bill said:
How do you get to council tax fraud? Surely it's paid by the tenant.
Because as I understand the OP's explanation, his current council tax is for his single household, increased to take account of the additional value of the annexe.If you rent the annexe to someone else, it becomes a separate household, attracting its own, separate council tax bill.
arguti said:
Thanks for your answer
Not sure if this falls in your catchment area or or do you know any decent planning consultants locally?
much appreciated
Shut up, Pike. Go and sit on the straw over there!Not sure if this falls in your catchment area or or do you know any decent planning consultants locally?
much appreciated
Lotobear said:
..did I ever tell you the story about the old empty barn?
No, I would love to hear that one!!!Equus said:
Bill said:
How do you get to council tax fraud? Surely it's paid by the tenant.
Because as I understand the OP's explanation, his current council tax is for his single household, increased to take account of the additional value of the annexe.If you rent the annexe to someone else, it becomes a separate household, attracting its own, separate council tax bill.
- I need to get out the planning permission and go through the conditions carefully but would like to sit down with a planning consultant to discuss realistic development options going forwards.
Equus, please would you PM me your contact details cheers
The annex in question
From the other side:
Back of barn:
Edited by arguti on Thursday 18th January 09:02
Whi is your planning director? I am involved in buying and selling sites in Devon and try to create planning gain for clients, I know enough to be dangerous so tend to pass them on to a planning consultant
Equus said:
This is very true, but they're getting increasingly linked-up with Planning, council tax/business rates, general tax etc. Bloody computers.
Trouble then is, to get away with a breach of the Planning condition, you've effectively got to commit Council tax fraud... which changes the situation from Planning enforcement (submit a retrospective application or stop doing it please!) to a criminal prosecution (go to jail; go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200).
Trouble then is, to get away with a breach of the Planning condition, you've effectively got to commit Council tax fraud... which changes the situation from Planning enforcement (submit a retrospective application or stop doing it please!) to a criminal prosecution (go to jail; go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200).
Edited by Equus on Tuesday 16th January 18:04
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