LPG boiler query
Discussion
I'm going to be completing (hopefully) next month on a house run on LPG.
Currently, from what the vendor described, the house has an old floor mounted boiler in the kitchen run on LPG for central heating and there is an immersion on top of the hot water cylinder located on the 2nd floor for water.
Seeing as the boiler is going to be inefficient at best and using electric to heat water is costly, i'm thinking of making it one of the first upgrades we do but i'm not that clued up on LPG.
The house is 7 bedrooms built in the 20's with thick cavity wall construction over 3 floors.
There is only 2 of us plus my daughter at weekends so won't be using mountains of hot water. There is currently 2 bathrooms plus a WC and we will be adding in an additional one.
Am I better off looking at a boiler run on LPG that can do heating and hot water, a new heating boiler, maybe a combi to do hot water as well (i don't mind this as I like the hot water on demand element that they offer), our hot water usage can't really be predicted as to whether it is morning/evening or not at all if going to gym/football etc which is another reason i'm thinking combi rather than heating 100's of litres only to not be used. Or should i be looking at ripping out the cylinder and putting in a pressurised system - how would that work on LPG?
Basically, any advice appreciated
Currently, from what the vendor described, the house has an old floor mounted boiler in the kitchen run on LPG for central heating and there is an immersion on top of the hot water cylinder located on the 2nd floor for water.
Seeing as the boiler is going to be inefficient at best and using electric to heat water is costly, i'm thinking of making it one of the first upgrades we do but i'm not that clued up on LPG.
The house is 7 bedrooms built in the 20's with thick cavity wall construction over 3 floors.
There is only 2 of us plus my daughter at weekends so won't be using mountains of hot water. There is currently 2 bathrooms plus a WC and we will be adding in an additional one.
Am I better off looking at a boiler run on LPG that can do heating and hot water, a new heating boiler, maybe a combi to do hot water as well (i don't mind this as I like the hot water on demand element that they offer), our hot water usage can't really be predicted as to whether it is morning/evening or not at all if going to gym/football etc which is another reason i'm thinking combi rather than heating 100's of litres only to not be used. Or should i be looking at ripping out the cylinder and putting in a pressurised system - how would that work on LPG?
Basically, any advice appreciated
Edited by Herbs on Thursday 18th January 15:39
We have done something similar recently and it was a big mistake, some of this may be usefull but some may not be !!
Ours is a 6 bed 20’s house in surrey.
We had an old lpg boiler and underground tank, it was costing us about £350 a month in gas, there are two of us and two dogs !! Thick insulation in the loft but single glazed windows.
We also had showers with very good shower pumps.
Went for a pressurised mains system with a boiler and 300L tank in the loft.
It still Costs us £350 a month !!!! and the showers are rubbish !!
Our best investment was a bloody great log burner.
The main issues are that whilst we had very high mains water pressure coming into the house it just isn’t as good as shower pumps no matter what any plumber says !!
Our boiler in the loft unfortunately now runs most of the time as the loft rarely gets above 5 degrees and it has a frost stat to kick in below 5 degrees (hence the high useage)
So we still have some sorting out to do, no further forward and £20k later !!
Phib
Ours is a 6 bed 20’s house in surrey.
We had an old lpg boiler and underground tank, it was costing us about £350 a month in gas, there are two of us and two dogs !! Thick insulation in the loft but single glazed windows.
We also had showers with very good shower pumps.
Went for a pressurised mains system with a boiler and 300L tank in the loft.
It still Costs us £350 a month !!!! and the showers are rubbish !!
Our best investment was a bloody great log burner.
The main issues are that whilst we had very high mains water pressure coming into the house it just isn’t as good as shower pumps no matter what any plumber says !!
Our boiler in the loft unfortunately now runs most of the time as the loft rarely gets above 5 degrees and it has a frost stat to kick in below 5 degrees (hence the high useage)
So we still have some sorting out to do, no further forward and £20k later !!
Phib
/\/\ - sounds like a s
t install or system to me, or maybe you have low water pressure?
I'm on a Worcester Bosch LPG system boiler with a pressurized unvented cylinder which runs my UFH and 3 showers and bathroom.
Hot water pressure to all showers and bath is always excellent.
The real issue regarding heating is good insulation. I'm in a 3500 sq ft converted barn and my LPG bill is £118 per month.
t install or system to me, or maybe you have low water pressure?I'm on a Worcester Bosch LPG system boiler with a pressurized unvented cylinder which runs my UFH and 3 showers and bathroom.
Hot water pressure to all showers and bath is always excellent.
The real issue regarding heating is good insulation. I'm in a 3500 sq ft converted barn and my LPG bill is £118 per month.
Phib consider a mains booster.
I have one of these: http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/mainsboost...
Also
https://www.screwfix.com/p/salamander-pumps-homebo...
I have your setup in a new house, and if someone ran a tap I got scalded in the shower. It doesn't totally solve the problem but massively helps. I got mine off ebay second hand, worth keeping your eyes open. I would highly recommend.
I have one of these: http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/mainsboost...
Also
https://www.screwfix.com/p/salamander-pumps-homebo...
I have your setup in a new house, and if someone ran a tap I got scalded in the shower. It doesn't totally solve the problem but massively helps. I got mine off ebay second hand, worth keeping your eyes open. I would highly recommend.
Apart from fuel cost you will not notice a difference between lpg and mains gas.... Basically the appliances just use different gas jets, not all appliances can be converted though. Definitely get yourself onto a condensing boiler if you're not already on one as the 20% efficiency saving will pay for itself pretty quickly, especially in a 7 bed house. LPG is equivalent to paying between 5-6p per KW of mains gas, so approx 2x the price....
If there's combi boilers available with the power output you need for a 7 bed house I'd go down that route as only heating the hot water used definitely makes sense when on LPG - even if you have to put up with the downsides of not being able to run two showers at the same time etc.
That said an unvented cylinder is definitely the best option if you're not budget conscious and also want to be able to run all the showers at the same time.... works the same way it would with mains gas.
If the boiler in there turns out to be a fairly decent condensing boiler, don't rule out using electric to heat the hotwater tank overnight on an economy 7 tariff - current night rates are around 6-7p per kw so not hugely different to LPG when the 100% efficiency is factored in. A well insulated tank should keep enough heat over 24 hours.
The main thing to keep an eye on with LPG is the price per liter you're paying, it's not as fixed as mains gas tariffs and suppliers are open to bartering... Just managed to get mine dropped from 41PPL to 35PPL....
If there's combi boilers available with the power output you need for a 7 bed house I'd go down that route as only heating the hot water used definitely makes sense when on LPG - even if you have to put up with the downsides of not being able to run two showers at the same time etc.
That said an unvented cylinder is definitely the best option if you're not budget conscious and also want to be able to run all the showers at the same time.... works the same way it would with mains gas.
If the boiler in there turns out to be a fairly decent condensing boiler, don't rule out using electric to heat the hotwater tank overnight on an economy 7 tariff - current night rates are around 6-7p per kw so not hugely different to LPG when the 100% efficiency is factored in. A well insulated tank should keep enough heat over 24 hours.
The main thing to keep an eye on with LPG is the price per liter you're paying, it's not as fixed as mains gas tariffs and suppliers are open to bartering... Just managed to get mine dropped from 41PPL to 35PPL....
Black_S3 said:
Apart from fuel cost you will not notice a difference between lpg and mains gas.... Basically the appliances just use different gas jets, not all appliances can be converted though. Definitely get yourself onto a condensing boiler if you're not already on one as the 20% efficiency saving will pay for itself pretty quickly, especially in a 7 bed house. LPG is equivalent to paying between 5-6p per KW of mains gas, so approx 2x the price....
If there's combi boilers available with the power output you need for a 7 bed house I'd go down that route as only heating the hot water used definitely makes sense when on LPG - even if you have to put up with the downsides of not being able to run two showers at the same time etc.
That said an unvented cylinder is definitely the best option if you're not budget conscious and also want to be able to run all the showers at the same time.... works the same way it would with mains gas.
If the boiler in there turns out to be a fairly decent condensing boiler, don't rule out using electric to heat the hotwater tank overnight on an economy 7 tariff - current night rates are around 6-7p per kw so not hugely different to LPG when the 100% efficiency is factored in. A well insulated tank should keep enough heat over 24 hours.
The main thing to keep an eye on with LPG is the price per liter you're paying, it's not as fixed as mains gas tariffs and suppliers are open to bartering... Just managed to get mine dropped from 41PPL to 35PPL....
Thanks all very helpful.If there's combi boilers available with the power output you need for a 7 bed house I'd go down that route as only heating the hot water used definitely makes sense when on LPG - even if you have to put up with the downsides of not being able to run two showers at the same time etc.
That said an unvented cylinder is definitely the best option if you're not budget conscious and also want to be able to run all the showers at the same time.... works the same way it would with mains gas.
If the boiler in there turns out to be a fairly decent condensing boiler, don't rule out using electric to heat the hotwater tank overnight on an economy 7 tariff - current night rates are around 6-7p per kw so not hugely different to LPG when the 100% efficiency is factored in. A well insulated tank should keep enough heat over 24 hours.
The main thing to keep an eye on with LPG is the price per liter you're paying, it's not as fixed as mains gas tariffs and suppliers are open to bartering... Just managed to get mine dropped from 41PPL to 35PPL....
Just been quoted 34p plus £250 cashback from Calor which is a good starting point.
The boiler will be old and inefficient I imagine so definitely looking to change.
I'm undecided whether to go the combi route or not. I can run 2 showers on mine where I am currently without a problem and with only 2 of us living there, I struggling to see how going for a cylinder solution could work out any cheaper. As I'm not planning on selling it at any point soon or having any other kids, I don't need to worry about resell value or putting off potential buyers.
Black_S3 said:
The main thing to keep an eye on with LPG is the price per liter you're paying, it's not as fixed as mains gas tariffs and suppliers are open to bartering... Just managed to get mine dropped from 41PPL to 35PPL....
Agree with this. I just managed to get mine from 40p to 33p but I bet after year one of the obligatory 2-year contract it will go up to 36.5 for the first 6 months of year 2 and then to 40p. And then the negotiations all start again garyhun said:
Agree with this. I just managed to get mine from 40p to 33p but I bet after year one of the obligatory 2-year contract it will go up to 36.5 for the first 6 months of year 2 and then to 40p. And then the negotiations all start again
Mine was 33 and has just gone to 36 after 12 months !Phib
Herbs said:
Thanks all very helpful.
Just been quoted 34p plus £250 cashback from Calor which is a good starting point.
The boiler will be old and inefficient I imagine so definitely looking to change.
I'm undecided whether to go the combi route or not. I can run 2 showers on mine where I am currently without a problem and with only 2 of us living there, I struggling to see how going for a cylinder solution could work out any cheaper. As I'm not planning on selling it at any point soon or having any other kids, I don't need to worry about resell value or putting off potential buyers.
The combi will be the cheaper of the 2 to install and a little cheaper to run due to only heating water thats used. The size of the boiler you'll be on for a 7 bed house will easily cope with 2 showers, it's the mains water pressure that will be the sticking point... If it's poor whole house pumps as mentioned above do sort this out but I'd be very wary pumping a whole house with potentially near 100 year old plumbing. The answer probably is if you have good mains pressure go with a combi.Just been quoted 34p plus £250 cashback from Calor which is a good starting point.
The boiler will be old and inefficient I imagine so definitely looking to change.
I'm undecided whether to go the combi route or not. I can run 2 showers on mine where I am currently without a problem and with only 2 of us living there, I struggling to see how going for a cylinder solution could work out any cheaper. As I'm not planning on selling it at any point soon or having any other kids, I don't need to worry about resell value or putting off potential buyers.
phib said:
Mine was 33 and has just gone to 36 after 12 months !
Phib
Most contracts limit the increase to 3.5%. If they don't specify then get them to agree it at the 2 year renewal. The suppliers must have fairly decent margins with the £100s of gas credit they chuck out to get people to resign for 2 years.Phib
Black_S3 said:
The combi will be the cheaper of the 2 to install and a little cheaper to run due to only heating water thats used. The size of the boiler you'll be on for a 7 bed house will easily cope with 2 showers, it's the mains water pressure that will be the sticking point... If it's poor whole house pumps as mentioned above do sort this out but I'd be very wary pumping a whole house with potentially near 100 year old plumbing. The answer probably is if you have good mains pressure go with a combi.
Appreciate the advice, seems crazy not to do it considering the existing setup. Good point about mains pressure, thats something i'll have to check.Is Worcester Bosch still the go to provider for the balance between reliability and price?
I went with a valliant ecotec 835, which I guess could be too small for your needs.... It'll need to a decent heating engineer to spec what you need but they do have a slightly bigger 43kw model.
https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/vaillant-ecotec...
Only reason I went with them was at the time they were offering a 10 year warranty which looks like it's an extra cost now.
ETA...
Completely forgot to say but depending on your level of resources,the stage you are at and the plans for the house etc also consider ditching lpg in favor of ground source heat pumps and solar for hot water.... There's some pretty good schemes running at the moment that I wish I could have taken advantage of but don't have the upfront finances required. This is a good starting point http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/grant...
https://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/vaillant-ecotec...
Only reason I went with them was at the time they were offering a 10 year warranty which looks like it's an extra cost now.
ETA...
Completely forgot to say but depending on your level of resources,the stage you are at and the plans for the house etc also consider ditching lpg in favor of ground source heat pumps and solar for hot water.... There's some pretty good schemes running at the moment that I wish I could have taken advantage of but don't have the upfront finances required. This is a good starting point http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/grant...
Edited by Black_S3 on Thursday 18th January 18:12
NDA said:
There don't seem too many suppliers for LPG, I am currently paying 58.5 from Calor which is extortion. Not sure what my options are - I am not in contract as far as I know (lived here 9 year and haven't signed anything).
Not sure I would ever have LPG again. Sooo expensive.
They're bending you over. Try Avantigas for a quote. I've been going back and forth between them and Calor for years, you can usually get a decent deal to switch. Currently 31.5p with Calor.Not sure I would ever have LPG again. Sooo expensive.
NDA said:
There don't seem too many suppliers for LPG, I am currently paying 58.5 from Calor which is extortion.
Yep, that's extortion.NDA said:
Not sure what my options are - I am not in contract as far as I know (lived here 9 year and haven't signed anything).
Not sure I would ever have LPG again. Sooo expensive.
Not if you change contract every two years (contract length). I've just gone back to Calor - 33p (IIRC) plus £250 of free gas.Not sure I would ever have LPG again. Sooo expensive.
Chuck your postcode into here for the list of suppliers. Countrywide've just sold their LPG business to Flogas.
http://www.uklpg.org/advice-and-information/switch...
OP - don't get the heating/hot water system confused with the fuel source. Many (mains) gas boilers can be converted to LPG, simply by changing the jets. Same for gas hobs.
I'd never go oil - it stinks, and it attracts thieving scrotes like nothing this side of a Golf R pulling a car trailer.
NDA said:
There don't seem too many suppliers for LPG, I am currently paying 58.5 from Calor which is extortion. Not sure what my options are - I am not in contract as far as I know (lived here 9 year and haven't signed anything).
Not sure I would ever have LPG again. Sooo expensive.
Is that bulk delivery to a tank or bottles?Not sure I would ever have LPG again. Sooo expensive.
just phone calor and tell them you want to sign a new contract at 31p and get £250 free or you will change supplier they will agree without question. The price may be more than 31p but should not be a lot more. I did this the other year and they did not even question the price drop. I still went elsewhere though, as I got bored phoning suppliers. I just said to the last one I have phoned everyone else so I know the price offer me your best. so they beat them all by a penny. They know every suppliers price so know what they have to do. Currently paying 29p with countrywide.
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