Now that everyone is renting their music and cars

[drainbrain]

zubzob said:

This can help the renter too though. If owner gets capital gains they are more likely to rent at lower rates for good tenants. As they don’t need the yield. My rent is close to 2% yield now, nicest house in the area imo. Architect designed and owned. I’m as terrible at diy as I am buying dvds. Never done either in my life.

I predict acceleration in these trends to all industries including housing. Airbnb is tripling YoY in my city and only matter of time before they do a Netflix and build their own apartment blocks for medium and longer stays.

I’d prefer to never own anything but I was born 10 years too early for that. It will come soon though.

Edited by zubzob on Sunday 18th February 13:09

Funny you should say that. That's how my (rich) kid lives. And it was a big influence on our (my) decision to dump home ownership and rent instead. It was amazingly liberating to dump most of our personal possessions too.

I really like living a rental life. In a way it's not too dissimilar from the debt-funded lifestyle I really enjoyed for decades until the banks went bust. I agree with zubzob. Soon it'll become the preferred lifestyle choice. Traditional capitalism/materialism is on its deathbed.

Edited by drainbrain on Sunday 18th February 13:37

[TooMany2cvs]

drainbrain said:

Soon it'll become the preferred lifestyle choice.

There's a very strong argument to say that the "must own home" attitude is actually the anomaly, and that the UK's ownership rates of the last decade or two are the exception, not the norm.

[covmutley]

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

No it hasn't, it's actually the opposite. Income growth as compared to CPI/RPI has been negative for a long time.

Put simply, things are getting more expensive in relation to income.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/survey-of-family-spending-charts-half-century-of-consumer-culture-775185.html

[TooMany2cvs]

covmutley said:

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

No it hasn't, it's actually the opposite. Income growth as compared to CPI/RPI has been negative for a long time.

Put simply, things are getting more expensive in relation to income.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/survey-of-family-spending-charts-half-century-of-consumer-culture-775185.html

Aye, that puts it into perspective.

[anonymous-user]

covmutley said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sur...

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/octopus-...

There we go.

I assume we're posting random news articles?

Do you know what RPI is?

[Vincefox]

Again:

TEN
F**KING
DOUGHNUTS.

[Funk]

drainbrain said:

zubzob said:

This can help the renter too though. If owner gets capital gains they are more likely to rent at lower rates for good tenants. As they don’t need the yield. My rent is close to 2% yield now, nicest house in the area imo. Architect designed and owned. I’m as terrible at diy as I am buying dvds. Never done either in my life.

I predict acceleration in these trends to all industries including housing. Airbnb is tripling YoY in my city and only matter of time before they do a Netflix and build their own apartment blocks for medium and longer stays.

I’d prefer to never own anything but I was born 10 years too early for that. It will come soon though.

Edited by zubzob on Sunday 18th February 13:09

Funny you should say that. That's how my (rich) kid lives. And it was a big influence on our (my) decision to dump home ownership and rent instead. It was amazingly liberating to dump most of our personal possessions too.

I really like living a rental life. In a way it's not too dissimilar from the debt-funded lifestyle I really enjoyed for decades until the banks went bust. I agree with zubzob. Soon it'll become the preferred lifestyle choice. Traditional capitalism/materialism is on its deathbed.

Edited by drainbrain on Sunday 18th February 13:37

The issue will come when that generation comes to retire. At present I'm guessing most peoples' largest outgoing is accommodation (whether rented or owned) and by the time I retire I'll own my property. My outgoings on accommodation will plummet whereas a renter's will continue until they die, taking up a huge proportion of any pension they may have - and many don't yet have a pension which will pay anything like what they're going to need in retirement.

I'm 38; people of my parents' generation had it made - massive house value inflation relative to earnings, decent pension pots and schemes... My generation and beyond will, on the whole, struggle to reach the similar levels of comfort and financial security that the previous generation enjoy currently.

Edited by Funk on Sunday 18th February 19:28

[DoubleD]

227bhp said:

DoubleD said:

227bhp said:

DoubleD said:

covmutley said:

All just part of the entitlement snowflake cultIt's where kids grow up being told that they have rights, no winners or losers everything is society's fault and the government needs to solve their problems

Edited by covmutley on Saturday 17th February 18:16

This paragraph is such a commonly written thing on PH. Its rather tedious to be honest.

Yes people hate having the unpalatable truth rammed under their noses.

And you dont think that older generations have always thought this?

That people don't like the truth when it doesn't suit them? Yes.
But if you're referring to the other post then no I don't, everybody views things differently. Generations have gone through different times of good and bad, austerity and indulgence. It would be interesting to look at a log of peoples perceptions over the years.

Older generations have always moaned about younger generations. What you are doing is not a new thing.

[Jakg]

OldGermanHeaps said:

One of the apprentice sparks I work with on a few jobs saved £20odd grand in 2 years just by driving a £200 car then later a works van, wearing primark and george clothes and only going on cheap nights out and doing overtime and homers.

Just to put some numbers on this, using some numbers plucked from here - https://www.jib.org.uk/documents/publications/149-... - I make the average apprentice electrician wage £8.28 an hour, which is £16k a year.

That's only £135 a month more than someone on minimum wage.

Must of been some overtime to saving £833 a month...

Edited by Jakg on Sunday 18th February 16:30

[Wombat3]

Flibble said:

HustleRussell said:

I’m not, it’s just that you can no longer borrow 5x your salary as you could several years ago. Or buy a flat for a reasonable amount of money. Inflation continues, wage inflation has been non-existent for years.

I was offered a mortgage in that range, I chose not to go for it, but it's not unheard of by any means.

That said, I don't think it's straight up salary multiples any more, it's about how much left after other commitments, so for someone with low outgoings the multiple will seem high.

You have 60k as a deposit. As a first time buyer you pay no stamp duty upto £300K

You can get up to 20% of the price of a new build interest free for 5 years under help to buy.

With £60K deposit + £60K HTB you can buy a £300K property with a £180K mortgage. For that you 'd need to be earning around £40K IME

That will cost you around £650 a month on 30 years at 2% (5 year fix)

If you can rent somewhere like that for £650 a month in the South East I'll eat my hat.

(My other half's son has just been offered about 4.5 times with only a 5% deposit. (2.1% 5 year fix, 35 years) by one of the big lenders.)

[nickfrog]

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

In 1996 average house prices were 3.6 times average combined income.
In 2016 average house prices are 7.6 times average combined income.

But this is not an important factor...apparently.

All you have to do is work twice as hard, however hard you were working before.

[Yipper]

TooMany2cvs said:

drainbrain said:

Soon it'll become the preferred lifestyle choice.

There's a very strong argument to say that the "must own home" attitude is actually the anomaly, and that the UK's ownership rates of the last decade or two are the exception, not the norm.

Interesting chart.

The rise in UK home ownership coincided almost exactly with Britain's fall in economic wealth.

Britain was Western Europe's no.1 richest economy in 1920 (by a gigantic margin)... In 2000, it was somewhere around 10th.

Britain has used home ownership and rising assets (perceived, real, or on-paper) as a comfort blanket to distract from its economic failure.

We don't dig or make anything the world wants anymore, but at least the fire is warm and Rightmove says my house is worth 6-figs.

[TooMany2cvs]

Yipper said:

Interesting chart.

The rise in UK home ownership coincided almost exactly with Britain's fall in economic wealth.

Britain was Western Europe's no.1 richest economy in 1920 (by a gigantic margin)... In 2000, it was somewhere around 10th.

Britain has used home ownership and rising assets (perceived, real, or on-paper) as a comfort blanket to distract from its economic failure.

We don't dig or make anything the world wants anymore, but at least the fire is warm and Rightmove says my house is worth 6-figs.

<blink>
<blink>
Yes, you did, didn't you?

Dear lord.

So go on, let's take it at face value. Which nine Western European economies were "richer" than the UK in 2000?

[Flibble]

Wombat3 said:

(My other half's son has just been offered about 4.5 times with only a 5% deposit. (2.1% 5 year fix, 35 years) by one of the big lenders.)

2.1% on a 5% deposit? That sounds suspiciously good. Typical rates are more like 4.5% over 5 years at that sort of LTV.

[DonkeyApple]

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

It's not victim mentality and it's not a snowflake agenda. You realize that factual records are kept of incomes and house prices right? This stuff isn't made up?

If you did know that (you surely couldn't) then you'd know that house prices have massively increased whilst incomes haven't.

It is empirically obvious that it is much more difficult to 'succeed' in these respects.

Don’t forget that the house price and the income isn’t the relevant picture. It’s purchasing power that is relevant and that is a function of the price of debt cost.

As I mentioned at the outset there is no debate that there is an issue worthy of redress but first you need to look at whether purchasing power has fallen and because debt is so cheap the reality is that the problem is far less than just looking at wages and asset values would imply.

In addition you need to consider whether expectations of those claiming to be on the wrong side are realistic along with geographic imbalances etc. And on top of that U.K. house prices are valued in GBP, a currency that has been devaluing since 2009 due to QE

The reality is that there are large numbers who are opting for lifestyle over home ownership and there are large numbers who are not being realistic in their purchasing desires. The difficulty is in filtering those groups out in order to see the real issue.

[nickfrog]

Yipper said:

Britain was Western Europe's no.1 richest economy in 1920 by a gigantic margin)... In 2000, it was somewhere around 10th.

With utter cretins like you, I am not surprised.

[DonkeyApple]

Yipper said:

Interesting chart.

The rise in UK home ownership coincided almost exactly with Britain's fall in economic wealth.

Britain was Western Europe's no.1 richest economy in 1920 (by a gigantic margin)... In 2000, it was somewhere around 10th.

Britain has used home ownership and rising assets (perceived, real, or on-paper) as a comfort blanket to distract from its economic failure.

We don't dig or make anything the world wants anymore, but at least the fire is warm and Rightmove says my house is worth 6-figs.

That is 100% total bullst. It’s just made up drivel by an absolute mentalist.

[Lanker22]

I’m 23 and have £30k saved up due to living like a monk for the past few years, which I’m reasonably happy with.

Certainly not looking forward to a few more years of living like a monk but it’s got to be done I guess.

However the temptation to buy a nice new car/bike on PCP is ever-present. It does feel a bit like I’m wasting a large portion of my youth scrimping and saving for a place. At the end of the day life is about enjoyment.

[Tyre Smoke]

TooMany2cvs said:

Tyre Smoke said:

The rot truly set in under Tony Blair. He told everyone that things would be better, they were worth more than this and utopia for all was around the corner.

He started what I call the L'Oreal generation (Because I'm worth it). A nation of entitled want it now, it's not my fault spineless workshy drains on society.

Apart from the minor detail that it's now 11 years since his 10yr stint as PM finished, does that mean this is unique to the UK...?

I'm sorry, I fail to see what point you are trying to make. I said the rot truly set in under Tony Blair. I didn't say he was solely responsible or that it was a uniquely UK problem.

[DoubleU]

Wombat3 said:

(My other half's son has just been offered about 4.5 times with only a 5% deposit. (2.1% 5 year fix, 35 years) by one of the big lenders.)

If that's true please drop me a PM with the mortgage broker he used. Because I'm looking at getting pretty much the same deal. Well, 25 years if possible.

I suppose I fit the demographic this topic is aimed at. Very early 30's, been renting for the past 10 years. My parents are not rich at all and even if they wanted to couldn't offer me any assistance.

To be honest I wasn't massively interested in buying up until about 3 years ago. Other half and I now been together 4 years and I've progressed in my career its now something I wanted to do. When the lease ended on my last car, I bought a cheap van, reduced all outgoings and now have scraped together a 5% deposit. I know another 5% would allow better rates blah blah but house prices are rising faster than I can save and quite frankly I just want to get on with it now.

I don't feel like its been a huge burden saving, we've still 'lived'......no holidays abroad but converted the van into a camper so we've done loads of getaways in that instead and its worked out well. Our local pub is cheap as, so once a week for a few pints with friends and all is well. Takeaways are rare, we both take own lunches to work and we hardly ever buy coffee out. Maybe that's the key

I'm in the north west and we're looking at around £160k for what we want. It'll just be in my name only.