Now that everyone is renting their music and cars
Discussion
kiethton said:
House prices are cyclical, they'll come back (relative to income) at some point, even now they're not hugely out of whack (look at household income, not personal stats, especially as you can't compare it to the 1960's when more women didn't work...)
I'm not so sure the cyclical theory applies anymore. There's nowhere near enough supply to meet demand and during the last economic downturn people just didn't put their homes up for sale - this kept the prices high. Also these help to buy schemes are playing a part and these didn't exist 50 years ago. Vincefox said:
HRL said:
DonkeyApple said:
That is not strictly speaking true. While there is no doubt that residential property prices have been inflated beyond fair value by deliberately relaxed lending it is not the case that you cannot purchase a home if you’re earning less than 3x national average salary.
And let’s separate the action of building up a deposit from the future lending aspect of any purchase as they are two highly distinct phases and while there are obvious relationships between the two acts they are both fealty with very differently.
First of all you need to strip down the group of people who are complaining they cannot buy a property into those for whom it has never been feasible and those for whom it should be. Ie removed the unrealistic from the scenario.
Second, with the group who are left who should be your traditional workers with a serious intent to own their family home we need to them look at why they are struggling to build up a deposit. Of course we must recognise that during the period of lax lending and the deliberate inflation of property values the deposit requirements were artificially deflated and that today they are back at more prudent and appropriate levels but what is it that is stopping those in their 20s who fit the traditional home buying demographic from building a deposit? If you’re of this correct demographic then what is it that after paying your rent, utilities and pension contributions that is meaning there is no money left to allocate to a deposit?
In the past it used to be that those who were in the socio economic group where owning a property was feasible would save for a deposit by not renting a flat but renting just a room, by going without meals out except for special occasions, not going shopping as a past time but focusing solely on building up that deposit and increasing their salary.
Now my business does a lot of analysis of consumer spending habits as we need to understand which groups have the wealth levels that will enable them to become customers and the big shift that we have seen among the under 35s of today who fit the income and work profile of logically being home owners is that they are not being frugal but are being profligate. Highly profligate. They have the monthly spending characteristics of the traditional bottom end renter, spending all net income on leisure. They aren’t acting as potential future home owners. When we look at the data we see people spending huge amounts on renting entire properties and with numerous monthly contracts for non essential goods and services and almost daily cars expenses on buying lunch and eating and drinking out.
People in their 20s are buying homes without being given their deposit. They’re out there in abundance but they are doing so by having the appropriate career path and by not consuming non essential goods so as to create the required deposit themselves.
If someone genuinely wants to buy a home they need to understand that lenders need to see evidence that the customer is a grown up who understands life priorities and not someone living the life of the 70s disco diva.
Absolutely this. It took the wife and I an absolute age to save a sizeable enough deposit and we had to cut down on all sorts of things to do so. And let’s separate the action of building up a deposit from the future lending aspect of any purchase as they are two highly distinct phases and while there are obvious relationships between the two acts they are both fealty with very differently.
First of all you need to strip down the group of people who are complaining they cannot buy a property into those for whom it has never been feasible and those for whom it should be. Ie removed the unrealistic from the scenario.
Second, with the group who are left who should be your traditional workers with a serious intent to own their family home we need to them look at why they are struggling to build up a deposit. Of course we must recognise that during the period of lax lending and the deliberate inflation of property values the deposit requirements were artificially deflated and that today they are back at more prudent and appropriate levels but what is it that is stopping those in their 20s who fit the traditional home buying demographic from building a deposit? If you’re of this correct demographic then what is it that after paying your rent, utilities and pension contributions that is meaning there is no money left to allocate to a deposit?
In the past it used to be that those who were in the socio economic group where owning a property was feasible would save for a deposit by not renting a flat but renting just a room, by going without meals out except for special occasions, not going shopping as a past time but focusing solely on building up that deposit and increasing their salary.
Now my business does a lot of analysis of consumer spending habits as we need to understand which groups have the wealth levels that will enable them to become customers and the big shift that we have seen among the under 35s of today who fit the income and work profile of logically being home owners is that they are not being frugal but are being profligate. Highly profligate. They have the monthly spending characteristics of the traditional bottom end renter, spending all net income on leisure. They aren’t acting as potential future home owners. When we look at the data we see people spending huge amounts on renting entire properties and with numerous monthly contracts for non essential goods and services and almost daily cars expenses on buying lunch and eating and drinking out.
People in their 20s are buying homes without being given their deposit. They’re out there in abundance but they are doing so by having the appropriate career path and by not consuming non essential goods so as to create the required deposit themselves.
If someone genuinely wants to buy a home they need to understand that lenders need to see evidence that the customer is a grown up who understands life priorities and not someone living the life of the 70s disco diva.
We also couldn’t buy in our preferred location and had to compromise on location/property.
k. To rent would be to line the pockets of those same people who acquired more than they needed and then pulled the ladder up.
I can only wait for change, in my own circumstances or the property market. May as well enjoy my disposable income, albeit while living with my mum. f
k social pressure. Edited by HustleRussell on Saturday 17th February 14:30
HustleRussell said:
I’m 28, I’ve been working in a career job for nine years, I’ve saved up over £60k- can I spend it on something I want to live in? Can I fk.
To rent would be to line the pockets of those same people who acquired more than they needed and then pulled the ladder up.
I can only wait for change, in my own circumstances or the property market. May as well enjoy my disposable income, albeit while living with my mum. fk social pressure.
Runs a race car, can't afford a mortgage k. To rent would be to line the pockets of those same people who acquired more than they needed and then pulled the ladder up.
I can only wait for change, in my own circumstances or the property market. May as well enjoy my disposable income, albeit while living with my mum. f
k social pressure. Edited by HustleRussell on Saturday 17th February 14:30
First World problems thread in the Lounge might suit you.
How my hard bleeds for generation CBA.
Edited by 227bhp on Saturday 17th February 14:51
Porridge GTI said:
Are you at all tempted to forget about or relinquish home ownership and rent your way forwards?
I've returned to renting after nearly 5 decades of ownership. Planned to move like a gypsy every year. Unfortunately after only a couple of months the plan has hit the skids and it's back to home ownership again in the next few weeks. 
HustleRussell said:
I’m 28, I’ve been working in a career job for nine years, I’ve saved up over £60k- can I spend it on something I want to live in? Can I fk.
To rent would be to line the pockets of those same people who acquired more than they needed and then pulled the ladder up.
I can only wait for change, in my own circumstances or the property market. May as well enjoy my disposable income, albeit while living with my mum. fk social pressure.
You've got £60k saved up and you reckon you can't afford to buy?!k. To rent would be to line the pockets of those same people who acquired more than they needed and then pulled the ladder up.
I can only wait for change, in my own circumstances or the property market. May as well enjoy my disposable income, albeit while living with my mum. f
k social pressure. Edited by HustleRussell on Saturday 17th February 14:30
Where do you live? That seems insane. I bought my 1st house 3 years ago with £6k deposit, that was only 5% deposit so not sure if they are still available?
We worked our asses off for 2 years to renovate it and made enough money to buy our next place with a 10% deposit.
You say you can't find a property you'd want to live in? Newsflash, most people don't want to live in their first house they can afford, it was a big downgrade for us from what we were renting but we knew it was a necessary step if we wanted to own our own place.
227bhp said:
Runs a race car, can't afford a mortgage
First World problems thread in the Lounge might suit you.
I’m not pleading poverty, that wouldn’t re-enforce my point at all. I’m illustrating how inaccessible property is in the area I was born and now work.First World problems thread in the Lounge might suit you.
P.S. I’m currently in between racing cars
HustleRussell said:
227bhp said:
Runs a race car, can't afford a mortgage
First World problems thread in the Lounge might suit you.
I’m not pleading poverty, that wouldn’t re-enforce my point at all. I’m illustrating how inaccessible property is in the area I was born and now work.First World problems thread in the Lounge might suit you.
P.S. I’m currently in between racing cars
HustleRussell said:
227bhp said:
How my hard bleeds for generation CBA.
I’m guessing this bit you’ve added is supposed to be inflammatory as it’s obviously pretty wide of the mark in my case.I wasn't racing a car when I was 28, I could now if I so wished. I just decided to do things the other way round to you, bricks and mortar first, frivolities and wasting money came later.
WolfieBot said:
You've got £60k saved up and you reckon you can't afford to buy?!
Where do you live? That seems insane. I bought my 1st house 3 years ago with £6k deposit, that was only 5% deposit so not sure if they are still available?
We worked our asses off for 2 years to renovate it and made enough money to buy our next place with a 10% deposit.
You say you can't find a property you'd want to live in? Newsflash, most people don't want to live in their first house they can afford, it was a big downgrade for us from what we were renting but we knew it was a necessary step if we wanted to own our own place.
Where do you live? That seems insane. I bought my 1st house 3 years ago with £6k deposit, that was only 5% deposit so not sure if they are still available?
We worked our asses off for 2 years to renovate it and made enough money to buy our next place with a 10% deposit.
You say you can't find a property you'd want to live in? Newsflash, most people don't want to live in their first house they can afford, it was a big downgrade for us from what we were renting but we knew it was a necessary step if we wanted to own our own place.
Vincefox said:
Out of interest, where are you roughly? IS it not possible to buy something a little less than what you're after and climb from it?
Epsom, working in Leatherhead but likely to work in London. Looking at Sutton, you don’t get anything for less than about 280 and I’m talking one bed middle floor flat in 1960s prefab block.Vincefox said:
HRL said:
DonkeyApple said:
That is not strictly speaking true. While there is no doubt that residential property prices have been inflated beyond fair value by deliberately relaxed lending it is not the case that you cannot purchase a home if you’re earning less than 3x national average salary.
And let’s separate the action of building up a deposit from the future lending aspect of any purchase as they are two highly distinct phases and while there are obvious relationships between the two acts they are both fealty with very differently.
First of all you need to strip down the group of people who are complaining they cannot buy a property into those for whom it has never been feasible and those for whom it should be. Ie removed the unrealistic from the scenario.
Second, with the group who are left who should be your traditional workers with a serious intent to own their family home we need to them look at why they are struggling to build up a deposit. Of course we must recognise that during the period of lax lending and the deliberate inflation of property values the deposit requirements were artificially deflated and that today they are back at more prudent and appropriate levels but what is it that is stopping those in their 20s who fit the traditional home buying demographic from building a deposit? If you’re of this correct demographic then what is it that after paying your rent, utilities and pension contributions that is meaning there is no money left to allocate to a deposit?
In the past it used to be that those who were in the socio economic group where owning a property was feasible would save for a deposit by not renting a flat but renting just a room, by going without meals out except for special occasions, not going shopping as a past time but focusing solely on building up that deposit and increasing their salary.
Now my business does a lot of analysis of consumer spending habits as we need to understand which groups have the wealth levels that will enable them to become customers and the big shift that we have seen among the under 35s of today who fit the income and work profile of logically being home owners is that they are not being frugal but are being profligate. Highly profligate. They have the monthly spending characteristics of the traditional bottom end renter, spending all net income on leisure. They aren’t acting as potential future home owners. When we look at the data we see people spending huge amounts on renting entire properties and with numerous monthly contracts for non essential goods and services and almost daily cars expenses on buying lunch and eating and drinking out.
People in their 20s are buying homes without being given their deposit. They’re out there in abundance but they are doing so by having the appropriate career path and by not consuming non essential goods so as to create the required deposit themselves.
If someone genuinely wants to buy a home they need to understand that lenders need to see evidence that the customer is a grown up who understands life priorities and not someone living the life of the 70s disco diva.
Absolutely this. It took the wife and I an absolute age to save a sizeable enough deposit and we had to cut down on all sorts of things to do so. And let’s separate the action of building up a deposit from the future lending aspect of any purchase as they are two highly distinct phases and while there are obvious relationships between the two acts they are both fealty with very differently.
First of all you need to strip down the group of people who are complaining they cannot buy a property into those for whom it has never been feasible and those for whom it should be. Ie removed the unrealistic from the scenario.
Second, with the group who are left who should be your traditional workers with a serious intent to own their family home we need to them look at why they are struggling to build up a deposit. Of course we must recognise that during the period of lax lending and the deliberate inflation of property values the deposit requirements were artificially deflated and that today they are back at more prudent and appropriate levels but what is it that is stopping those in their 20s who fit the traditional home buying demographic from building a deposit? If you’re of this correct demographic then what is it that after paying your rent, utilities and pension contributions that is meaning there is no money left to allocate to a deposit?
In the past it used to be that those who were in the socio economic group where owning a property was feasible would save for a deposit by not renting a flat but renting just a room, by going without meals out except for special occasions, not going shopping as a past time but focusing solely on building up that deposit and increasing their salary.
Now my business does a lot of analysis of consumer spending habits as we need to understand which groups have the wealth levels that will enable them to become customers and the big shift that we have seen among the under 35s of today who fit the income and work profile of logically being home owners is that they are not being frugal but are being profligate. Highly profligate. They have the monthly spending characteristics of the traditional bottom end renter, spending all net income on leisure. They aren’t acting as potential future home owners. When we look at the data we see people spending huge amounts on renting entire properties and with numerous monthly contracts for non essential goods and services and almost daily cars expenses on buying lunch and eating and drinking out.
People in their 20s are buying homes without being given their deposit. They’re out there in abundance but they are doing so by having the appropriate career path and by not consuming non essential goods so as to create the required deposit themselves.
If someone genuinely wants to buy a home they need to understand that lenders need to see evidence that the customer is a grown up who understands life priorities and not someone living the life of the 70s disco diva.
We also couldn’t buy in our preferred location and had to compromise on location/property.
Me - postie , Mrs - nurse just seemed to bang in the overtime for a few months ( whilst still living at home ) and bang there was our deposit and money for legal fees , easy.
Nowadays you'd never be able to get on the ladder like that , in fact a postie and nurse would struggle to even get on the ladder now.
egor110 said:
However it was far easier to buy a house in the 90's .
Me - postie , Mrs - nurse just seemed to bang in the overtime for a few months ( whilst still living at home ) and bang there was our deposit and money for legal fees , easy.
Nowadays you'd never be able to get on the ladder like that , in fact a postie and nurse would struggle to even get on the ladder now.
Posties and nurses earn similar wages to many other types of jobs and they are able to buy their own houses.Me - postie , Mrs - nurse just seemed to bang in the overtime for a few months ( whilst still living at home ) and bang there was our deposit and money for legal fees , easy.
Nowadays you'd never be able to get on the ladder like that , in fact a postie and nurse would struggle to even get on the ladder now.
The young couple in their early 20s i was speaking to last week that were moaning how hard it was to get on the property ladder had leased mid spec brand new audi a1 and an a3, they both always wear designer clothes and eat out and go to fancy pubs all the time and have their rooms in their parents houses filled with fancy tvs and sonos and they dont take any of the overtime offered. One of the apprentice sparks I work with on a few jobs saved £20odd grand in 2 years just by driving a £200 car then later a works van, wearing primark and george clothes and only going on cheap nights out and doing overtime and homers. I'm sure its still doable if you sacrifice short term to win long term and set your expectations accordingly for your first place.
My first place was a 1 bedroom flat next to a noisy railway line and you could touch 2 opposite walls in the kitchen just by outstretching your arms, but it was bearable by telling myself it was only temporary and it sure as hell makes you appreciate a 4 bed detached more later in life.
My first place was a 1 bedroom flat next to a noisy railway line and you could touch 2 opposite walls in the kitchen just by outstretching your arms, but it was bearable by telling myself it was only temporary and it sure as hell makes you appreciate a 4 bed detached more later in life.
227bhp said:
HustleRussell said:
227bhp said:
How my hard bleeds for generation CBA.
I’m guessing this bit you’ve added is supposed to be inflammatory as it’s obviously pretty wide of the mark in my case.I wasn't racing a car when I was 28, I could now if I so wished. I just decided to do things the other way round to you, bricks and mortar first, frivolities and wasting money came later.
227bhp said:
You could buy a full house in Liverpool for a quid and spend £40k+ making it into whatever you want.
Property in Cheshire £65k...
I could... I could also buy a mongolian goat farm or a couple of acres in Utah. Property in Cheshire £65k...
Vincefox said:
Could you come further out from london (crawley, for example) and train commute? Just trying to think laterally.
I could, I would be moving further away from not only the city but place of work, parents, friends, workshop etc. HustleRussell said:
I could, I would be moving further away from not only the city but place of work, parents, friends, workshop etc.
Thats a personal choice though. Obviously others are managing to buy houses in your area, otherwise prices would drop. Why are you earning and saving less than your local neighbours? HustleRussell said:
227bhp said:
HustleRussell said:
227bhp said:
How my hard bleeds for generation CBA.
I’m guessing this bit you’ve added is supposed to be inflammatory as it’s obviously pretty wide of the mark in my case.I wasn't racing a car when I was 28, I could now if I so wished. I just decided to do things the other way round to you, bricks and mortar first, frivolities and wasting money came later.
227bhp said:
You could buy a full house in Liverpool for a quid and spend £40k+ making it into whatever you want.
Property in Cheshire £65k...
I could... I could also buy a mongolian goat farm or a couple of acres in Utah. Property in Cheshire £65k...
Vincefox said:
Could you come further out from london (crawley, for example) and train commute? Just trying to think laterally.
I could, I would be moving further away from not only the city but place of work, parents, friends, workshop etc. HustleRussell said:
Epsom, working in Leatherhead but likely to work in London. Looking at Sutton, you don’t get anything for less than about 280 and I’m talking one bed middle floor flat in 1960s prefab block.
So don’t live there. I was born in Guildford and couldn’t wait to get away from the sthole as soon as I could leave home. Really don’t understand why people are hell bent on living south of the M25. I work in central London and commute on from Bedfordshire, it’s 45 mins into Kings Cross and there’s loads of house building going on near me. With a modest deposit, you’d get a nice house in a nice area.
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