Correct course of action for failed electrical work.
Discussion
A little bit of background for context...
I have some electrical work that's been required in my house/garage/workshop for the last few months. Of the four electricians I've contacted, 2 failed to turn up for the appointment to quote, one turned up to quote, appeared keen for the work but never provided a quote and the current one quoted (price seemed good and nice guy so agreed straight away) and turned up to start the job (quoted to be 1 full days work).
The first day he turned up a couple of hours late, after about 4 hours had to go to the wholesalers to pick up bits he'd forgot and called to ask if he could complete the next day (I agreed, I'd left time the next day for this kind of thing).
The second day he turned up about an hour late and left just after midday but arranged to come back on the Saturday to finish.
Saturday he never turned up, no contact and no response to text.
What has been done is generally ok but with some ridiculous errors. For example, most of the cable runs are through the roof joists (flat garage roof with massive joists) but then when things are stored between the beams (eg ladders, timber) the cables are just laying on top of them. The layout of the system is also clearly wrong with some of the sockets on a ring then one on a spur with a spur taken from it to go underground to a nearby workshop.
Given the months it has taken to find an electrician I was intending to let him finish, pay him then fix all the errors after he'd left. It now looks like he may have taken on work beyond his abilities and now has his head in the sand. It's a real shame as he seems like a nice lad so I was hoping I'd found an electrician I could trust.
I'm considering at this point calling his approved body (NICELC) to get them to come and look as some of what he has done is so poor. I'm also considering giving up on trying to find an electrician and just doing it myself. Which is frustrating as I was trying to do this all correctly and as it includes a couple of consumer units/shower circuit and underground cable I know I shouldn't but when the qualified electricians are this bad...
The saving grace is that I haven't paid him anything yet and to his credit he hasn't asked me for any money either. What would others do in this situation?
I have some electrical work that's been required in my house/garage/workshop for the last few months. Of the four electricians I've contacted, 2 failed to turn up for the appointment to quote, one turned up to quote, appeared keen for the work but never provided a quote and the current one quoted (price seemed good and nice guy so agreed straight away) and turned up to start the job (quoted to be 1 full days work).
The first day he turned up a couple of hours late, after about 4 hours had to go to the wholesalers to pick up bits he'd forgot and called to ask if he could complete the next day (I agreed, I'd left time the next day for this kind of thing).
The second day he turned up about an hour late and left just after midday but arranged to come back on the Saturday to finish.
Saturday he never turned up, no contact and no response to text.
What has been done is generally ok but with some ridiculous errors. For example, most of the cable runs are through the roof joists (flat garage roof with massive joists) but then when things are stored between the beams (eg ladders, timber) the cables are just laying on top of them. The layout of the system is also clearly wrong with some of the sockets on a ring then one on a spur with a spur taken from it to go underground to a nearby workshop.
Given the months it has taken to find an electrician I was intending to let him finish, pay him then fix all the errors after he'd left. It now looks like he may have taken on work beyond his abilities and now has his head in the sand. It's a real shame as he seems like a nice lad so I was hoping I'd found an electrician I could trust.
I'm considering at this point calling his approved body (NICELC) to get them to come and look as some of what he has done is so poor. I'm also considering giving up on trying to find an electrician and just doing it myself. Which is frustrating as I was trying to do this all correctly and as it includes a couple of consumer units/shower circuit and underground cable I know I shouldn't but when the qualified electricians are this bad...
The saving grace is that I haven't paid him anything yet and to his credit he hasn't asked me for any money either. What would others do in this situation?
Edited by Garybee on Sunday 25th February 11:17
I've had similar experiences. One of which was a bathroom refit where the NICEIC electricians actually wrote on the minor works certificate that they'd borrowed a neutral. The switch coming off the consumer unit has only a live running through it with the neutral left disconnected. Utter s
te.
Worse, when I spoke to NICEIC and got through to their technical department they were full of excuses for the electricians involved but ultimately could not give a toss.
NICEIC is pointless. It provides no assurance as to the skill or care of the electrician or the quality of their work.
Do the work yourself if you are competent it'll be a lot less hassle, except where you need a cert.
I even had a moan to building control who were on site at the time for a separate job and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.
te. Worse, when I spoke to NICEIC and got through to their technical department they were full of excuses for the electricians involved but ultimately could not give a toss.
NICEIC is pointless. It provides no assurance as to the skill or care of the electrician or the quality of their work.
Do the work yourself if you are competent it'll be a lot less hassle, except where you need a cert.
I even had a moan to building control who were on site at the time for a separate job and all I got was a shrug of the shoulders.
I know how to do most of it (and could research/work out the rest) but I was ideally hoping to get a cert for the work. I don't envisage selling the house any time soon (maybe ever) but am reluctant to cause potential problems for the future.
Your description of the NICEIC doesn't instil me with confidence
Your description of the NICEIC doesn't instil me with confidence
There are things the nic can and will do but they are very reluctant to jump straight in and will push you towards mediating yourself in the first instance.
Given he hasn't invoiced you for anything yet they'd definitely shrug it off. Worth noting you're well within rights to insist on a cert before paying anything; I'd ask him if he plans to complete or walk away with nothing.
You're not having much luck, is there something you might be doing that puts some of them off, such as seeming to want to be too involved in exactly how the work is done? A lot of trades really don't like this. And now you've got the aspect of another trades walked away, which tends to ring alarm bells in most tradies heads.
Given he hasn't invoiced you for anything yet they'd definitely shrug it off. Worth noting you're well within rights to insist on a cert before paying anything; I'd ask him if he plans to complete or walk away with nothing.
You're not having much luck, is there something you might be doing that puts some of them off, such as seeming to want to be too involved in exactly how the work is done? A lot of trades really don't like this. And now you've got the aspect of another trades walked away, which tends to ring alarm bells in most tradies heads.
I had a proper argument with a firm who did some absolutely terrible work and got them to rip it out and redo.
This was still at the first fix stage so could have been worse. I'd only planned to have a quick look to see how it was progressing and ended up finding it was pretty much all wrong, and the sort of thing that couldn't be fixed later.
Going through the (fairly basic) bits of the regulations they'd got wrong didn't work, it was hard work even with the NICEIC guides with the pictures.
Got there in the end but took some strong persuasion/arm twisting. Even then I redid bits to get the cable protection up to scratch.
The whole certification thing is a farce; no guarantee the work is actually OK but no way to sort it yourself regardless of qualifications if you aren't in the schemes, and no practical ways as an individual to get in.
This was still at the first fix stage so could have been worse. I'd only planned to have a quick look to see how it was progressing and ended up finding it was pretty much all wrong, and the sort of thing that couldn't be fixed later.
Going through the (fairly basic) bits of the regulations they'd got wrong didn't work, it was hard work even with the NICEIC guides with the pictures.
Got there in the end but took some strong persuasion/arm twisting. Even then I redid bits to get the cable protection up to scratch.
The whole certification thing is a farce; no guarantee the work is actually OK but no way to sort it yourself regardless of qualifications if you aren't in the schemes, and no practical ways as an individual to get in.
I must admit, every job I turn up at to do extra work or a re-wire the original electrics are usually horrific, half the time the wiring is pretty new as well, mostly carried out by kitchen or bathroom fitter types.
As for the NICEIC I will be utterly amazed if you get them to do anything, the £500 per year they get of the "electrician" is far more important to them than your safety. They did give kitchen and bathroom fitters scope to sign work off after all.
As for the NICEIC I will be utterly amazed if you get them to do anything, the £500 per year they get of the "electrician" is far more important to them than your safety. They did give kitchen and bathroom fitters scope to sign work off after all.
Garybee said:
The saving grace is that I haven't paid him anything yet and to his credit he hasn't asked me for any money either. What would others do in this situation?
Is he likely to return? I'd take photos etc. of incomplete or shoddy workmanship, and that you aren't happy with the work done so far, just to cover yourself and take it from there. Get someone with recommendations next time.Alucidnation said:
Buy cheap, buy twice.
.
Agree in principle but I've had a ton of work done over the past 18 months and have never gone for the cheapest option yet without fail each job has had something element of incompetence, lies, and half arsedness about it. Usually all three and in buckets..
Alucidnation said:
Buy cheap, buy twice.
We are due to rip out a 'multiskilled' tradesmans work this week due to knowing fk all about nothing, but being 'reasonably priced'.
And, it's costing them more than our original quotation.
I love stuff like this, as I earn a fking fortune from it.
You have no idea what the quote was but you know that I didn't pay enough We are due to rip out a 'multiskilled' tradesmans work this week due to knowing f
k all about nothing, but being 'reasonably priced'.And, it's costing them more than our original quotation.
I love stuff like this, as I earn a f
king fortune from it.
I'm sure if I paid him double what he asked for he would have turned out to be the perfect tradesman. He definitely wouldn't have just done the same job for double the money.
fido said:
Is he likely to return? I'd take photos etc. of incomplete or shoddy workmanship, and that you aren't happy with the work done so far, just to cover yourself and take it from there. Get someone with recommendations next time.
I will be doing exactly that and will give NICEIC the opportunity to inspect it before I fix it all of course. I'd love to get someone with recommendations but I'm starting to think they don't exist. I know of a couple of local electricians that have done work for friends/colleagues but those friends/colleagues were very unimpressed at what they were left with. Instead I thought I'd try someone with recommendations on check-a-trade and Mybuilder. Obviously that hasn't worked but what else can you do? mickmcpaddy said:
I must admit, every job I turn up at to do extra work or a re-wire the original electrics are usually horrific, half the time the wiring is pretty new as well, mostly carried out by kitchen or bathroom fitter types.
As for the NICEIC I will be utterly amazed if you get them to do anything, the £500 per year they get of the "electrician" is far more important to them than your safety. They did give kitchen and bathroom fitters scope to sign work off after all.
This guy does trade as an electrician. If it comes to that I will try talking to the NICEIC but I will also prepare myself to get nowhere with them. As for the NICEIC I will be utterly amazed if you get them to do anything, the £500 per year they get of the "electrician" is far more important to them than your safety. They did give kitchen and bathroom fitters scope to sign work off after all.
mickmcpaddy said:
If they need to use one of those type of sites then they can't be very good. I've got the same problem trying to buy a graphics card, just cant get hold of one in the near future.
Unfortunately that seems to be the only kind of tradesman available round here. For clarity I'm no cheapskate. I very much value people's time being a technical trade myself. My main concern about this country is the national trait of undervaluing skilled people.
I have managed to get hold of him this afternoon and agreed another day for him to complete the job(s). If I'm able to get him to turn up, complete the job (however badly) and provide the appropriate certs I'll be happy. Once I'm legal I can make everything safe after he's gone.
Amusingly his lack of efficiency with circuit design provides plenty of spare cable for me to make everything right and actually increase the current capacity of what's there.
Garybee said:
Amusingly his lack of efficiency with circuit design provides plenty of spare cable for me to make everything right and actually increase the current capacity of what's there.
What has circuit design got to do with spare cable?And to be honest, it sounds like you were probably interfering.
Alucidnation said:
What has circuit design got to do with spare cable?
And to be honest, it sounds like you were probably interfering.
1) Lots, a long spur to a socket nearby to a socket on a ring is very easy to improve on.And to be honest, it sounds like you were probably interfering.
2) Feel free to explain how looking at what's been done after he left has made him feel like I'm interfering. Honestly, this place just gets worse and worse.
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