Air Source Heat Pumps
Discussion
shady lee said:
AbzGuyGTI said:
We have a Daikin ASHP system in our new build as there is no Gas mains.
It runs everything, heating, hot water etc.. So we only pay for electricity and are around £100 month for a 3 bed house, 2 bathrooms, U/F heating downstairs and radiators in every room upstairs.
Have no complaints really, water is very hot and the radiators and U/F heating is fine...if anything gets too warm sometimes.
The 2 machines on the wall outside are maybe the size of a single bed, slightly smaller but arn't in the way but can make a bit of noise when both on and we are sitting outside.
See this is where I don't see the savings, we have a 3 bed house, 3 of us showering every day, heating on twice a day as needed and tumble dryer on the go most days, gas and electric bill has never been over £100.It runs everything, heating, hot water etc.. So we only pay for electricity and are around £100 month for a 3 bed house, 2 bathrooms, U/F heating downstairs and radiators in every room upstairs.
Have no complaints really, water is very hot and the radiators and U/F heating is fine...if anything gets too warm sometimes.
The 2 machines on the wall outside are maybe the size of a single bed, slightly smaller but arn't in the way but can make a bit of noise when both on and we are sitting outside.
Where is the saving if you have mains gas?
As said above, your meant to keep it on 24/7 and just adjust the thermostats and it'll kick into life when need be but to be honest can get tedious as you have to adjust (for me) 6 thermostats downstairs and 6 radiators upstairs which you eventually forget to do so some rooms will be cold or too hot! haha! Also the hot water tank isn't huge (again an eco tank) so after 2 adults & 2 kids have a shower very minimal hot water left.
Its not a bad system but i wouldn't personally fit one to an already existing house if i didn't need too.
shady lee said:
See this is where I don't see the savings, we have a 3 bed house, 3 of us showering every day, heating on twice a day as needed and tumble dryer on the go most days, gas and electric bill has never been over £100.
Where is the saving if you have mains gas?
The reason for government incentives (RHI) is to get people off oil fired systems and onto electric, which in time will be provided by renewables (yes, I know all of the arguments) . Significantly reducing uk emissions.Where is the saving if you have mains gas?
You could argue that a better and cheaper solution would be to upgrade the insulation of the UKs housing stock, this was tried with the rather unsuccessful green deal thing.
996Type said:
The RHI scheme is about to change (I expect for the worse) which may kill this dead anyway.
Electricity is 5X the cost of gas but air source gives 3KW of heat benefit for every 1KW of input electricity, plus electricity is more of a secure fuel source moving forward.
I am amazed at some of the rubbish I’ve been told by those looking for an order but the principal of the technology is very attractive.
Any thoughts welcome.....
I thought RHI was only for off-grid properties anyway, not eligible for replacement of mains gas? Certainly used to be.Electricity is 5X the cost of gas but air source gives 3KW of heat benefit for every 1KW of input electricity, plus electricity is more of a secure fuel source moving forward.
I am amazed at some of the rubbish I’ve been told by those looking for an order but the principal of the technology is very attractive.
Any thoughts welcome.....
We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
RedLeicester said:
I thought RHI was only for off-grid properties anyway, not eligible for replacement of mains gas? Certainly used to be.
We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
If you were getting average COPs of 3:1 it will have been a poor bit of kit, you're right that the cop reduces as ambient temperatures drop with ashp, that is where gshp scores as refrigerant evaporates at a higher constant temperature which will give higher efficiency.We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
The more advanced air source heat pumps have fairly complex controllers which if set up correctly will have a significant effect on efficiency (but are bloody confusing!)
Paying less than £100 per month today for gas and electricity for the 3 bed, 3 story 1936 detached house!
Some interesting comments above, I’ll be honest I’m not convinced.
RHI we qualify, we are on mains gas.
I think it’s too marginal, the cold snap we just had, appreciate it’s a one off but would expect ashp to be chewing through electricity in those conditions.
Company is now looking to put us on hybrid system, heat only, for a fractional cost saving, any solution for a sale?
Some interesting comments above, I’ll be honest I’m not convinced.
RHI we qualify, we are on mains gas.
I think it’s too marginal, the cold snap we just had, appreciate it’s a one off but would expect ashp to be chewing through electricity in those conditions.
Company is now looking to put us on hybrid system, heat only, for a fractional cost saving, any solution for a sale?
996Type said:
No savings to energy bills would kill the project tbh, the installed cost is 10X a standard system boiler......RHI carries some of the cost but after that’s ended, was looking for significant energy savings.
Invest £600 in Honeywell evohome,upsize some rads to double convectors and turn your boilers flow temp down to 60c so it's in condensing mode for all of the year.
Over insulate the loft.
Savings can be had, but the ashp outlay Vs reward just seems expensive.
I looked into these and even on LPG I couldn't see it. Also I really don't trust the government for backtracking on the schemes that make the maths come close to being attractive, especially when 15k either invested in something else now if you have it or borrowed with interest if you don't over 10 years is not 15k in 10 years.
Will continue to follow this thread with interest as we are looking at all the options at the moment
20 year old bungalow, west Scotland, no gas.
Present heating is a mix of electric storage/panel heaters and immersion.
Was intending to go electric radiators but a few breakdowns on the one we are testing at the moment is making us reconsider. (We have electric radiators in the place we are moving from but supplier has changed spec and new ones proving unreliable).
Been talking to a local heating guy and he seems to be pushing us towards ASHP and our neighbour has one and says good things about it.
20 year old bungalow, west Scotland, no gas.
Present heating is a mix of electric storage/panel heaters and immersion.
Was intending to go electric radiators but a few breakdowns on the one we are testing at the moment is making us reconsider. (We have electric radiators in the place we are moving from but supplier has changed spec and new ones proving unreliable).
Been talking to a local heating guy and he seems to be pushing us towards ASHP and our neighbour has one and says good things about it.
shady lee said:
996Type said:
No savings to energy bills would kill the project tbh, the installed cost is 10X a standard system boiler......RHI carries some of the cost but after that’s ended, was looking for significant energy savings.
Invest £600 in Honeywell evohome,upsize some rads to double convectors and turn your boilers flow temp down to 60c so it's in condensing mode for all of the year.
Over insulate the loft.
Savings can be had, but the ashp outlay Vs reward just seems expensive.
RedLeicester said:
We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
This is the problem we've had. When the temperature has been below zero over the last week, it simply blows cool air and at best gets the building up to circa +6C. Which is not ideal for running a pre-school...gareth h said:
Not sure what evohome is, but the rest is very sensible, many condensing boilers out there that never do!
It's a zoned heating setup, basically let's you heat different rooms at different times of the day.Idea is you only heat rooms you use at certain times, i.e living room until 9pm then bedrooms 9pm until 11pm. Rather than heating rooms that no-one is actually in
gareth h said:
RedLeicester said:
I thought RHI was only for off-grid properties anyway, not eligible for replacement of mains gas? Certainly used to be.
We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
If you were getting average COPs of 3:1 it will have been a poor bit of kit, you're right that the cop reduces as ambient temperatures drop with ashp, that is where gshp scores as refrigerant evaporates at a higher constant temperature which will give higher efficiency.We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
The more advanced air source heat pumps have fairly complex controllers which if set up correctly will have a significant effect on efficiency (but are bloody confusing!)
RedLeicester said:
gareth h said:
RedLeicester said:
I thought RHI was only for off-grid properties anyway, not eligible for replacement of mains gas? Certainly used to be.
We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
If you were getting average COPs of 3:1 it will have been a poor bit of kit, you're right that the cop reduces as ambient temperatures drop with ashp, that is where gshp scores as refrigerant evaporates at a higher constant temperature which will give higher efficiency.We looked at GSHP/ASHP before going to others a few years ago and one thing that stuck with me was this whole 3 out / 1 in thing - yes it's true, until you read the small print. Even for the leading option we considered here, that ratio was only true for "optimum conditions" which the tiny tiny print declared to be +10C... given we'd just been through a winter where it hadn't got above -10C for a whole month, I shuddered to think quite what the electricity cost might have been for that period. Don't doubt it would have still worked, but it made a bit of a mess of the projected "saving".
The more advanced air source heat pumps have fairly complex controllers which if set up correctly will have a significant effect on efficiency (but are bloody confusing!)
Apologies for the thread resurrection, but I've recently been looking into getting an ASHP to replace our oil fired system and thought I'd share thoughts.
As background, we have a mid '90s build 4 bed detached, so cavety wall insulation, reasonable thermal efficiency, although not at current building regs standards.
I estimate we use circa £1300 a year on oil for comfort heating and hot water purposes. Boiler is now circa 25 years old, so may be getting towards the end of its life, which in part is what has got us looking at ASHP. If we're going to have to replace the boiler anyway, why not go greener. We have solar PVs to help offset some of the electrical heating demand.
Anyway, long story short, all of our rads need upgrading. Alongside the cost of installing the ASHP (but not removing the oil tank or bricking up the hole in the wall) price came back just shy of £17k.
Chucking the stats out from our last EPC, we should be able to get £7k back over 7 years on the RHI. So, assuming the Govt don't mess with the RHI again, we'd have to find an extra £10k (minimum, more if we have to raise finance to pay for it).
Even allowing for a few thousand to replace our existing boiler with a new oil fired boiler, that's still a very hefty wedge we'd have to account for, when calculating payback.
I really want to go green, but the maths are making it very hard to justify to the Mrs. In her words - £10k buys an awful lot of nice holidays/fun stuff.
Anyone else looked at this recently, and have arguments for/against?
As background, we have a mid '90s build 4 bed detached, so cavety wall insulation, reasonable thermal efficiency, although not at current building regs standards.
I estimate we use circa £1300 a year on oil for comfort heating and hot water purposes. Boiler is now circa 25 years old, so may be getting towards the end of its life, which in part is what has got us looking at ASHP. If we're going to have to replace the boiler anyway, why not go greener. We have solar PVs to help offset some of the electrical heating demand.
Anyway, long story short, all of our rads need upgrading. Alongside the cost of installing the ASHP (but not removing the oil tank or bricking up the hole in the wall) price came back just shy of £17k.
Chucking the stats out from our last EPC, we should be able to get £7k back over 7 years on the RHI. So, assuming the Govt don't mess with the RHI again, we'd have to find an extra £10k (minimum, more if we have to raise finance to pay for it).
Even allowing for a few thousand to replace our existing boiler with a new oil fired boiler, that's still a very hefty wedge we'd have to account for, when calculating payback.
I really want to go green, but the maths are making it very hard to justify to the Mrs. In her words - £10k buys an awful lot of nice holidays/fun stuff.
Anyone else looked at this recently, and have arguments for/against?
Venom said:
Apologies for the thread resurrection, but I've recently been looking into getting an ASHP to replace our oil fired system and thought I'd share thoughts.
As background, we have a mid '90s build 4 bed detached, so cavety wall insulation, reasonable thermal efficiency, although not at current building regs standards.
I estimate we use circa £1300 a year on oil for comfort heating and hot water purposes. Boiler is now circa 25 years old, so may be getting towards the end of its life, which in part is what has got us looking at ASHP. If we're going to have to replace the boiler anyway, why not go greener. We have solar PVs to help offset some of the electrical heating demand.
Anyway, long story short, all of our rads need upgrading. Alongside the cost of installing the ASHP (but not removing the oil tank or bricking up the hole in the wall) price came back just shy of £17k.
Chucking the stats out from our last EPC, we should be able to get £7k back over 7 years on the RHI. So, assuming the Govt don't mess with the RHI again, we'd have to find an extra £10k (minimum, more if we have to raise finance to pay for it).
Even allowing for a few thousand to replace our existing boiler with a new oil fired boiler, that's still a very hefty wedge we'd have to account for, when calculating payback.
I really want to go green, but the maths are making it very hard to justify to the Mrs. In her words - £10k buys an awful lot of nice holidays/fun stuff.
Anyone else looked at this recently, and have arguments for/against?
I'm a bit out of touch with costings, but have you had more than one quote? That sounds a bit pricey.As background, we have a mid '90s build 4 bed detached, so cavety wall insulation, reasonable thermal efficiency, although not at current building regs standards.
I estimate we use circa £1300 a year on oil for comfort heating and hot water purposes. Boiler is now circa 25 years old, so may be getting towards the end of its life, which in part is what has got us looking at ASHP. If we're going to have to replace the boiler anyway, why not go greener. We have solar PVs to help offset some of the electrical heating demand.
Anyway, long story short, all of our rads need upgrading. Alongside the cost of installing the ASHP (but not removing the oil tank or bricking up the hole in the wall) price came back just shy of £17k.
Chucking the stats out from our last EPC, we should be able to get £7k back over 7 years on the RHI. So, assuming the Govt don't mess with the RHI again, we'd have to find an extra £10k (minimum, more if we have to raise finance to pay for it).
Even allowing for a few thousand to replace our existing boiler with a new oil fired boiler, that's still a very hefty wedge we'd have to account for, when calculating payback.
I really want to go green, but the maths are making it very hard to justify to the Mrs. In her words - £10k buys an awful lot of nice holidays/fun stuff.
Anyone else looked at this recently, and have arguments for/against?
Skyedriver said:
Will continue to follow this thread with interest as we are looking at all the options at the moment
20 year old bungalow, west Scotland, no gas.
Present heating is a mix of electric storage/panel heaters and immersion.
Was intending to go electric radiators but a few breakdowns on the one we are testing at the moment is making us reconsider. (We have electric radiators in the place we are moving from but supplier has changed spec and new ones proving unreliable).
Been talking to a local heating guy and he seems to be pushing us towards ASHP and our neighbour has one and says good things about it.
In response to the most recent threads, rather than mine above, we has our ASHP commissioned on the 8th Feb this year so it's now been running for two months.20 year old bungalow, west Scotland, no gas.
Present heating is a mix of electric storage/panel heaters and immersion.
Was intending to go electric radiators but a few breakdowns on the one we are testing at the moment is making us reconsider. (We have electric radiators in the place we are moving from but supplier has changed spec and new ones proving unreliable).
Been talking to a local heating guy and he seems to be pushing us towards ASHP and our neighbour has one and says good things about it.
Cost £14,910, we got a Scottish Government grant of £10,000 which we pay back over 7 years and hopefully the expected RHI will cover that. Expect the savings to be nominal TBH although our friendly installer says differently. We moved from total electric, storage heaters & immersion for hot water on a THTC contract with SSE to a contract with Bulb. Will continue to monitor...
Hi,
I never went for this in the end.
Like solar, I initiated the first contact with those offering installations and got the feeling the sales guys were just making stuff up to get a sale. One example, I asked for what I originally expected to be the small fan unit to be mounted above the garage on an external wall and the sales guy agreed. Inspection engineer rejected this add the sales guy stated he thought he would, couldn't trust anything after this.
My solar does a great job of negating gas use during summer but they just wanted rid of the pressurised cylinder to make way for their system etc.
Ultimately, the house is too marginal to benefit due to age and unlike solar the variables are unproven until long after youve spent the money.
Have a frindd with a new build though off the gas grid and it makes sense for him.
Get a few quotes, keep your eyes open and make sure you speak to other homeowners that have it would be my advice.
I never went for this in the end.
Like solar, I initiated the first contact with those offering installations and got the feeling the sales guys were just making stuff up to get a sale. One example, I asked for what I originally expected to be the small fan unit to be mounted above the garage on an external wall and the sales guy agreed. Inspection engineer rejected this add the sales guy stated he thought he would, couldn't trust anything after this.
My solar does a great job of negating gas use during summer but they just wanted rid of the pressurised cylinder to make way for their system etc.
Ultimately, the house is too marginal to benefit due to age and unlike solar the variables are unproven until long after youve spent the money.
Have a frindd with a new build though off the gas grid and it makes sense for him.
Get a few quotes, keep your eyes open and make sure you speak to other homeowners that have it would be my advice.
All I do is install underfloor heating with air sourced hot water heat pumps here in NZ.
For a number of reasons it is invariably the best way to heat a new house.
Only 2 or 3% of houses in NZ have any sort of central heating.
If considering using a heat pump for heating, great care must be taken as - as although a heat is very energy efficient, simply substituting a boiler for a heat pump is a recipe for disaster.
There are many idiots here "in the trade" in NZ, with many "experts" coming from the UK and Europe - I recently disabled a £5000 heating control panel because it didn't work - substituting a £75 wireless controller.
Inevitably the expensive controls (at least £10,000 worth) were fitted by a bloke originally from NI. An expensive idiot.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff