Badly fitted Windows
Discussion
Hi Guys
I could so with some advice, as im getting told that theres nothing i can so and the standard of the install is "normal" and acceptable.
We had triple glazing fitted to the front,
2 large bay windows (7 panels)
small bay window
2 other smaller windows
total £8k
After the installation, the level of workmanship was appalling, you can see the images here: https://imgur.com/a/EPttN
we complained a number of times as they were being fitted.
Then the manager said "look i want you to be happy, so I will replace the 3 bay windows", we said, no and just fix the poor plastering and trimming. But he insisted.. (our theory as to why he wants to go for the more expensive option is that he knew of a fundamental installation problem, poss no supports added? as the 2nd install had round metal bars between the panes)
A few weeks later, the 2nd install started, yes poor install again, we complained.
This time, the bottom bay window was not plumb, and 2 of the windows closures would leave a gap when closed.
when we put a spirit level against the frame we could see the problem.
We complained, the manager came out to see and started to tinker and adjust the pins, we explained thats not going to work as the frame is not plumb, seemed to just ignore that and said he'll send the original fitters round to fix!
The fitters came, again tinkering with the windows closure pins, even tried to bend them! explained with the spirit level the problem, 1 worker who spoke no English, looked and nodded as in agreement to the problem, the other, English speaker suddenly was unable to speak english no more !
Rang the manager and said, tell your fitters to leave as they are just being silly now.
images here https://imgur.com/a/nJJIo
we now have noise, draughts (draughts from the beading also!) and all trimmings needing redoing.
we have contacted Fairtrade, who wasn't too pleased, Fensa - which i dont think we well get anywhere but did say he hasnt logged the completed install with them after 3 weeks gone now, and Consumer direct.
We've had 2 quotes from other Window companies to fix the issue. The Manager wants to come and see if he can fix the problem again, we said no, you have had enough chances.
But the feeling still seems that if we took them to court we would probably loose, and also been advised to get the windows fixed at out own cost and move on...
We just cant believe someone can come and do this to peoples homes !
many thanks for your time
Sanj
Is this the general feeling here, we wouldn't win..??
I could so with some advice, as im getting told that theres nothing i can so and the standard of the install is "normal" and acceptable.
We had triple glazing fitted to the front,
2 large bay windows (7 panels)
small bay window
2 other smaller windows
total £8k
After the installation, the level of workmanship was appalling, you can see the images here: https://imgur.com/a/EPttN
we complained a number of times as they were being fitted.
Then the manager said "look i want you to be happy, so I will replace the 3 bay windows", we said, no and just fix the poor plastering and trimming. But he insisted.. (our theory as to why he wants to go for the more expensive option is that he knew of a fundamental installation problem, poss no supports added? as the 2nd install had round metal bars between the panes)
A few weeks later, the 2nd install started, yes poor install again, we complained.
This time, the bottom bay window was not plumb, and 2 of the windows closures would leave a gap when closed.
when we put a spirit level against the frame we could see the problem.
We complained, the manager came out to see and started to tinker and adjust the pins, we explained thats not going to work as the frame is not plumb, seemed to just ignore that and said he'll send the original fitters round to fix!
The fitters came, again tinkering with the windows closure pins, even tried to bend them! explained with the spirit level the problem, 1 worker who spoke no English, looked and nodded as in agreement to the problem, the other, English speaker suddenly was unable to speak english no more !
Rang the manager and said, tell your fitters to leave as they are just being silly now.
images here https://imgur.com/a/nJJIo
we now have noise, draughts (draughts from the beading also!) and all trimmings needing redoing.
we have contacted Fairtrade, who wasn't too pleased, Fensa - which i dont think we well get anywhere but did say he hasnt logged the completed install with them after 3 weeks gone now, and Consumer direct.
We've had 2 quotes from other Window companies to fix the issue. The Manager wants to come and see if he can fix the problem again, we said no, you have had enough chances.
But the feeling still seems that if we took them to court we would probably loose, and also been advised to get the windows fixed at out own cost and move on...
We just cant believe someone can come and do this to peoples homes !
many thanks for your time
Sanj
Is this the general feeling here, we wouldn't win..??
That does look terrible. Have you paid some or all of the £8k? If you’ve paid for the windows then perhaps nothing lost in getting them round for another go? If you’ve not paid then I’d probably be thinking I don’t want them anywhere near my windows again, tell them to naff off and get someone else to either fix or replace them. Hope you get it sorted.
unfortunately we have paid ! we refused the pay at first (4k last payment), but he got heavy with "as far as we are concerned its fitted and we have to pay or well take you to court"
we then paid - yes i know we shouldn't have ! but we never been in a situation like was a bit intimidated !
But we want to fight it but dont want to loose and pay their costs,
We had another Fitter today to give us a quote and asked him candidly what our chances are as he said he's seen similar cases and basically we have little chance of winning..!!
we then paid - yes i know we shouldn't have ! but we never been in a situation like was a bit intimidated !
But we want to fight it but dont want to loose and pay their costs,
We had another Fitter today to give us a quote and asked him candidly what our chances are as he said he's seen similar cases and basically we have little chance of winning..!!
Absolutely awful install!
Imagine trying to get those installers to fix that properly will be like asking for your fillet steak medium rare in a sizzlers pub - It's never going to happen as the ability just isn't there, it'll keep coming out overcooked/or still alive.
Incompetent fitters will still be incompetent no matter how many times they try. Judging by that work I don't think it's laziness or rushing it's just poor workmanship installed by people who don't know what they're doing.
I don't know much about any success you might have trying to take them to court, door/glazing companies are notoriously shady. However with work being completed like that I imagine they have had probably a few people try to sue them and are used to multiple complaints.
I've never paid for windows until after they've been fitted and any decent company will agree. I think in your situation I would be finding a competent fitter and seeing if they can sort the issue out and at least salvage the windows/doors you have purchased. If they've already been back once, the worst thing that can happen is they try and take the windows out, re-align/refit and ultimately end up making it worse.
Imagine trying to get those installers to fix that properly will be like asking for your fillet steak medium rare in a sizzlers pub - It's never going to happen as the ability just isn't there, it'll keep coming out overcooked/or still alive.
Incompetent fitters will still be incompetent no matter how many times they try. Judging by that work I don't think it's laziness or rushing it's just poor workmanship installed by people who don't know what they're doing.
I don't know much about any success you might have trying to take them to court, door/glazing companies are notoriously shady. However with work being completed like that I imagine they have had probably a few people try to sue them and are used to multiple complaints.
I've never paid for windows until after they've been fitted and any decent company will agree. I think in your situation I would be finding a competent fitter and seeing if they can sort the issue out and at least salvage the windows/doors you have purchased. If they've already been back once, the worst thing that can happen is they try and take the windows out, re-align/refit and ultimately end up making it worse.
Write to them, recorded delivery; asking for a full refund due to unacceptable work. Tell them that you will take them to court if you do not get a full refund within 14 days. They have made your property worse than when they started, and you do not want them on site again as they have attempted rectification but failed.
Complete the claim paperwork
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money
Send them a copy of this with your letter to let them know you mean it.
File claim if their response is inadequate.
Complete the claim paperwork
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money
Send them a copy of this with your letter to let them know you mean it.
File claim if their response is inadequate.
chand2018 said:
Hi Guys
I could so with some advice, as im getting told that theres nothing i can so and the standard of the install is "normal" and acceptable.
We had triple glazing fitted to the front,
2 large bay windows (7 panels)
small bay window
2 other smaller windows
total £8k
After the installation, the level of workmanship was appalling, you can see the images here: https://imgur.com/a/EPttN
we complained a number of times as they were being fitted.
Then the manager said "look i want you to be happy, so I will replace the 3 bay windows", we said, no and just fix the poor plastering and trimming. But he insisted.. (our theory as to why he wants to go for the more expensive option is that he knew of a fundamental installation problem, poss no supports added? as the 2nd install had round metal bars between the panes)
A few weeks later, the 2nd install started, yes poor install again, we complained.
This time, the bottom bay window was not plumb, and 2 of the windows closures would leave a gap when closed.
when we put a spirit level against the frame we could see the problem.
We complained, the manager came out to see and started to tinker and adjust the pins, we explained thats not going to work as the frame is not plumb, seemed to just ignore that and said he'll send the original fitters round to fix!
The fitters came, again tinkering with the windows closure pins, even tried to bend them! explained with the spirit level the problem, 1 worker who spoke no English, looked and nodded as in agreement to the problem, the other, English speaker suddenly was unable to speak english no more !
Rang the manager and said, tell your fitters to leave as they are just being silly now.
images here https://imgur.com/a/nJJIo
we now have noise, draughts (draughts from the beading also!) and all trimmings needing redoing.
we have contacted Fairtrade, who wasn't too pleased, Fensa - which i dont think we well get anywhere but did say he hasnt logged the completed install with them after 3 weeks gone now, and Consumer direct.
We've had 2 quotes from other Window companies to fix the issue. The Manager wants to come and see if he can fix the problem again, we said no, you have had enough chances.
But the feeling still seems that if we took them to court we would probably loose, and also been advised to get the windows fixed at out own cost and move on...
We just cant believe someone can come and do this to peoples homes !
many thanks for your time
Sanj
Is this the general feeling here, we wouldn't win..??
It’s hard to know what to say. Looking at those pictures it just seems that the people the company is sending to do the work are genuinely sub-normal. No basic level functioning human could achieve what they have on seemingly every single element of the install. I could so with some advice, as im getting told that theres nothing i can so and the standard of the install is "normal" and acceptable.
We had triple glazing fitted to the front,
2 large bay windows (7 panels)
small bay window
2 other smaller windows
total £8k
After the installation, the level of workmanship was appalling, you can see the images here: https://imgur.com/a/EPttN
we complained a number of times as they were being fitted.
Then the manager said "look i want you to be happy, so I will replace the 3 bay windows", we said, no and just fix the poor plastering and trimming. But he insisted.. (our theory as to why he wants to go for the more expensive option is that he knew of a fundamental installation problem, poss no supports added? as the 2nd install had round metal bars between the panes)
A few weeks later, the 2nd install started, yes poor install again, we complained.
This time, the bottom bay window was not plumb, and 2 of the windows closures would leave a gap when closed.
when we put a spirit level against the frame we could see the problem.
We complained, the manager came out to see and started to tinker and adjust the pins, we explained thats not going to work as the frame is not plumb, seemed to just ignore that and said he'll send the original fitters round to fix!
The fitters came, again tinkering with the windows closure pins, even tried to bend them! explained with the spirit level the problem, 1 worker who spoke no English, looked and nodded as in agreement to the problem, the other, English speaker suddenly was unable to speak english no more !
Rang the manager and said, tell your fitters to leave as they are just being silly now.
images here https://imgur.com/a/nJJIo
we now have noise, draughts (draughts from the beading also!) and all trimmings needing redoing.
we have contacted Fairtrade, who wasn't too pleased, Fensa - which i dont think we well get anywhere but did say he hasnt logged the completed install with them after 3 weeks gone now, and Consumer direct.
We've had 2 quotes from other Window companies to fix the issue. The Manager wants to come and see if he can fix the problem again, we said no, you have had enough chances.
But the feeling still seems that if we took them to court we would probably loose, and also been advised to get the windows fixed at out own cost and move on...
We just cant believe someone can come and do this to peoples homes !
many thanks for your time
Sanj
Is this the general feeling here, we wouldn't win..??
You seem to have a manager who is willing but workers who shouldn’t be anywhere but being cared for by their mothers.
Is it worth inviting the manager back over and rationally discussing each point of vandalism and asking if he and his company approve of each point. Then discussing the matter that he does not have any workers on his books who are capable and that if you get credible third party estimates for making good you’ll meet him halfway on the costs? I don’t suppose your invoice details out the labour and fitting element to enable you to ask for that back as there has been no labour or fitting just vandalism?
In an ideal world the company would hand back all of the money they have taken from you but in the real world you may have to work to a compromise to reach the end. Good luck.
But for future reference to anyone: the more a company tries to intimidate you into paying the closer you should look at their work and prepare to fight them. It’s so important to never pay in full until the work is completed as agreed and as expected. If you do then they have no real incentive to negotiate and you have no real world leverage.
Couple of issues, in case others are about to purchase windows ...
We paid by bank transfer, and should have used credit card and so are not covered, even a small deposit on the credit card would have had us covered.
We are in talks with Trading Standards, I just completed all documentation, dates, timelines, pics, email and text correspondence to be looked at by them.
If they say we have a good case then we will go to court for the full amount..
We've had 1 complete quote (£13.5K to replace all 3 bays), £5500 to replace the bottom bay, the quote also included an assessment of the work - which highlighted the non plumb fitting and poor trimmings, to fix the window closure would require a refit of the complete window.
This was sent to the original fitter - who said because they are competitors he doesn't have to take notice of them, and hes willing to come to fix the windows closure but not replace, we said no as thats not going to fix the problem unless you replace plus we wouldn't want you round again, he also said he should have charged us for the 2nd install !!
We had a 2nd fitter come to give us a quote yesterday - he was gobsmacked at the work - his advice was that they wont take assessment from any window fitter and we would have to get a independent survey done which could cost from £500-750. Plus little chance of wining the case.
Our best bet is
Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, any double glazing installation should:
1 .Be done using ‘reasonable care and skill’
2. The window"s should be made with materials that are ‘of satisfactory quality’ and ‘fit for their purpose’
3. Be ‘as described’ - eg, what you ordered.
emphasis on point 1.
We have till Friday to reply to him with out intentions....im just gathering as much information and guidance as i can, and for this I thank you all
regards
We paid by bank transfer, and should have used credit card and so are not covered, even a small deposit on the credit card would have had us covered.
We are in talks with Trading Standards, I just completed all documentation, dates, timelines, pics, email and text correspondence to be looked at by them.
If they say we have a good case then we will go to court for the full amount..
We've had 1 complete quote (£13.5K to replace all 3 bays), £5500 to replace the bottom bay, the quote also included an assessment of the work - which highlighted the non plumb fitting and poor trimmings, to fix the window closure would require a refit of the complete window.
This was sent to the original fitter - who said because they are competitors he doesn't have to take notice of them, and hes willing to come to fix the windows closure but not replace, we said no as thats not going to fix the problem unless you replace plus we wouldn't want you round again, he also said he should have charged us for the 2nd install !!
We had a 2nd fitter come to give us a quote yesterday - he was gobsmacked at the work - his advice was that they wont take assessment from any window fitter and we would have to get a independent survey done which could cost from £500-750. Plus little chance of wining the case.
Our best bet is
Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, any double glazing installation should:
1 .Be done using ‘reasonable care and skill’
2. The window"s should be made with materials that are ‘of satisfactory quality’ and ‘fit for their purpose’
3. Be ‘as described’ - eg, what you ordered.
emphasis on point 1.
We have till Friday to reply to him with out intentions....im just gathering as much information and guidance as i can, and for this I thank you all
regards
k me that's shoddy. I'm not a window fitter and I've done far better than that. Shocking 
It would be absolutely staggering if anyone could manage to uphold criteria 1.
What have FENSA said? They are obviously in the business of forcing consumers to pay a fee while doing as little as absolutely possible but I believe a few years ago they were forced to introduce an inspection service because of just how terrible their industry is and how little they have done about it.
Is it worth bringing them round to give an opinion as to whether they will produce a certificate for this work and whether they endorse the standard to which it has been carried out?
You obviously won’t be the only customer of this company to have this terrible workmanship. There will be lots of you. Not that this helps much but it’s highly likely that trading standards know all about them.
What have FENSA said? They are obviously in the business of forcing consumers to pay a fee while doing as little as absolutely possible but I believe a few years ago they were forced to introduce an inspection service because of just how terrible their industry is and how little they have done about it.
Is it worth bringing them round to give an opinion as to whether they will produce a certificate for this work and whether they endorse the standard to which it has been carried out?
You obviously won’t be the only customer of this company to have this terrible workmanship. There will be lots of you. Not that this helps much but it’s highly likely that trading standards know all about them.
That's a horrible install and you have unwittingly put yourself in a poor negotiation position. Having now sought legal advice you know what to do but have a slim chance of recompense. Everyone here can see that the installation is appalling albeit the actual windows may be good quality. I'd try to leverage some bad publicity for the company in addition to the steps that you are taking. Lessons learned in a hard way I'm afraid; best of luck in getting your home back into a habitable state. The work cannot be left in the current state.
DDg said:
blimey - I've always found Check-a-Trade quite accurate!
So, apart from Trading Standards, Fensa, the Court letter, you should also discuss with Check-a-Trade. I think they'll prefer to forego the Cowboy's annual subscription in preference to damaging CaT's reputation and credibility. Will it help you get your issue sorted at no expense? Sadly I think not. Have you considered getting a good builder in to rectify the situation? I'm thinking there's maybe three days labour for a couple of people there, and if the current windows can be rectified, then it shouldn't be extortionate.
This - complain to C.A.T - they will be able to make life awkward for the company in a different way that you are.So, apart from Trading Standards, Fensa, the Court letter, you should also discuss with Check-a-Trade. I think they'll prefer to forego the Cowboy's annual subscription in preference to damaging CaT's reputation and credibility. Will it help you get your issue sorted at no expense? Sadly I think not. Have you considered getting a good builder in to rectify the situation? I'm thinking there's maybe three days labour for a couple of people there, and if the current windows can be rectified, then it shouldn't be extortionate.
Edited by DDg on Thursday 15th March 09:47
Thats a proper nasty install.
They look like they have been totally out of their depth, the detailing on the upvc sill & trim is dreadful, its hardly difficult to work with and its the basic skill of the trade that you are using for finishing those details. Simple things like for example I would have used a multi-cutter to trim the dado rail back rather than notching it into the upvc trim, looks crap.
Big margin on that job by the look of it going by the prices mentioned!
Big margin on that job by the look of it going by the prices mentioned!
Hey rfisher
thanks for that lead...
we have just contacted esure, they have asked us to send them all the details to them, to see what they can do for us.
The guy wasn't able to give us the exact cover we have said send the documentation and he'll get back to us.
If covered , they will handle the case for up to £30k if we have a case, but i suppose this takes it out of the small claims court...
will update when we have more info but says get more quotes and we need to recover for the whole amount plus time spent trying to fix it.....
regards
thanks for that lead...
we have just contacted esure, they have asked us to send them all the details to them, to see what they can do for us.
The guy wasn't able to give us the exact cover we have said send the documentation and he'll get back to us.
If covered , they will handle the case for up to £30k if we have a case, but i suppose this takes it out of the small claims court...
will update when we have more info but says get more quotes and we need to recover for the whole amount plus time spent trying to fix it.....
regards
yes Fensa registered, we rang them yesterday to complain, they said they have no record of our work as hes not registered it with them. That was 3 weeks ago when we paid in full.
Fensa said they will contact them as to why its not registered! We will insist on an inspection whether it helps our case or not !
more and more i look at the state of those windows the more determined we are they cant get away with it.
Fensa said they will contact them as to why its not registered! We will insist on an inspection whether it helps our case or not !
more and more i look at the state of those windows the more determined we are they cant get away with it.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff