Neighbour wanting a front extension, not pleased.

[bennno]

Planning required as its on the front, you can also flag up the 50% permitted development rule if his shed is as big as you have described....

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

B17NNS said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

I think if we could be sure planning is required

You can be sure.

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguid...

How far from the road is your front door?

Edited by B17NNS on Tuesday 27th March 18:40

I can measure, but not at the mo as he's out there fiddling with his car! I would say best guess that the front gardens/yards are three metres deep, then a one brick deep wall, then a standard path, then the road.

[B17NNS]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

I can measure, but not at the mo as he's out there fiddling with his car! I would say best guess that the front gardens/yards are three metres deep, then a one brick deep wall, then a standard path, then the road.

Assuming the path is about 1m wide the biggest he could go without planning is 2m out, 1.5m wide or vice versa.

[nonsequitur]

You must object to any application Object, retrospectively about the shed. If you don't what will he do next! We had a neighbour in our village like yours, 'I'll do what I want' etc. Collectively we eventually got things sorted in our favour and he moved away. No doubt doing the same in another town or village.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

bennno said:

Planning required as its on the front, you can also flag up the 50% permitted development rule if his shed is as big as you have described....

That's the workshop. I suspect it's under 50%, but we're sure it's taller than allowed.

[Gavia]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

That's the workshop. I suspect it's under 50%, but we're sure it's taller than allowed.

Personally, I’d leave that, as you’re going to drag you next door but one neighbour into this too given their level of development.

I’d head to a solicitor for some proper advice. Assuming that confirms what we all think, then I’d have a polite word, playing the “Are you sure this is OK? I’d have thought planning permission would be needed” to start with and then gradually increase the pressure, by giving him some websites to check it on. Leave the legal threats and letters until there’s no other choice, as it could affect the value of your property if you get into a dispute.

[mk1fan]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

mk1fan said:

desolate said:

mk1fan said:

If the boundary line is 6-inches from your door then, bluntly, tough. They have the same rights as you with regards to their property.

If the OP is correct, they have no right to build on this part of their property at all

Feel free to expand on that. Ignoring the communal status of the front yard that may or may not effect it. I'm curious to know where it is prescribed that an owner is prevented from building up to the boundary. It is the OP who said the boundary is within 6-inches of their door so they clearly think there is a boundary of some sort there. I have assumed that they mean a dividing boundary running perpendicular to the front elevation.

It is on our deeds as communal space. The consensus seems to be that this makes a difference, and he needs to consult us. Many also think planning is required. We think the very close proximity will be to our detriment, and that he's being selfish wanting to extend so close. If we have the tools to stop it, if sensible discussion doesn't work, then we'll use it. There is a physical boundary of where his house ends and ours begins, which I suspect he is correct at where it lies. This doesn't necessarily mean he can put a plastic monstrosity right up to it.

You stated the boundary is within 6-inches of your door. If you ignore, for now, the status of the front yard and assume that the yard is divided along the [extended] lines of the internal boundaries - which I suspect are the centre line of the party wall between your properties - then you have an entitlement to build up to the boundary. As does your neighbour. Indeed to simplify future matters [legally], I always recommend a Party Wall be raised.

As has been expressed by others, what you find aesthically pleasing carries little weight so I wouldn't get distracted by it.

You may need some legal advice regarding the front yard area as the specific terms of the deeds to all the properties will have a bearing on how you address this Civil matter.

[Squiggs]

FiF said:

Where is the permitted building line? Should show it on the papers when you bought the place. Any extension must NOT go beyond that line.

Also page 1 para 3
https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguid...

Am I missing something here??

3) says: extensions to the front do not fall under permitted development - therefore he needs planning permission!

That's it!
All in black and white!
No beating around the bush!

Planning permission is unlikely to be granted - and more especially if it encroaches on communal land - and even more especially if the OP objects.

The OP just needs a way of getting the neighbour to read and understand the regulations.

If any work starts without planning then the OP can get it stopped.

Simple really

[Gavia]

Squiggs said:

FiF said:

Where is the permitted building line? Should show it on the papers when you bought the place. Any extension must NOT go beyond that line.

Also page 1 para 3
https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguid...

Am I missing something here??

3) says: extensions to the front do not fall under permitted development - therefore he needs planning permission!

That's it!
All in black and white!
No beating around the bush!

Planning permission is unlikely to be granted - and more especially if it encroaches on communal land - and even more especially if the OP objects.

The OP just needs a way of getting the neighbour to read and understand the regulations.

If any work starts without planning then the OP can get it stopped.

Simple really

Are you missing something? Yes. .............”and fronting a highway” at the end fo the sentence you quoted. Not sure if his extension would be fronting a highway.

[Squiggs]

Gavia said:

Squiggs said:

FiF said:

Where is the permitted building line? Should show it on the papers when you bought the place. Any extension must NOT go beyond that line.

Also page 1 para 3
https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguid...

Am I missing something here??

3) says: extensions to the front do not fall under permitted development - therefore he needs planning permission!

That's it!
All in black and white!
No beating around the bush!

Planning permission is unlikely to be granted - and more especially if it encroaches on communal land - and even more especially if the OP objects.

The OP just needs a way of getting the neighbour to read and understand the regulations.

If any work starts without planning then the OP can get it stopped.

Simple really

Are you missing something? Yes. .............”and fronting a highway” at the end fo the sentence you quoted. Not sure if his extension would be fronting a highway.

Ok I missed that bit out ....... but doesn't fronting have the same meaning as facing? (It won't be siding or backing a highway)

As the front of the house is only a few meters from the highway and the 'proposed extension' is going on the front of the house I'm pretty sure it will be fronting a highway.

[Gavia]

Squiggs said:

Ok I missed that bit out ....... but doesn't fronting have the same meaning as facing? (It won't be siding or backing a highway)

As the front of the house is only a few meters from the highway and the 'proposed extension' is going on the front of the house I'm pretty sure it will be fronting a highway.

Like I said, I don’t know. Does fronting mean being right on top of the highway, or just facing it?

Fully insured, qualified legal advice is the way forward, even if it’s use is a last resort.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

I'm not sure what exactly the term 'fronting a highway' means, but there is a road in front of our house. From what I can tell from research a 'porch' construction can be no more than 3 metre squared, and no nearer than 2 metres from our boundary. If not, planning is required, and it seems not that easy to obtain, especially if there is an objection from a neighbour. Also, the monstrosity that he put up out the rear is at least 10 foot tall in parts, and regs say you need permission if a structure is taller than 8.2 (2.5 metres) tall. The fence panels are 6ft, with concrete bases approaching 2 feet, and it's towering above that.
We need to look further in to the communal element. Sarah was emailed by our solicitor when buying that it was communal.

We didn't object to that, even though it's ugly AF. If he did go full dick head we could request it to be pulled down, and he spent a year building the bloody thing.

Sarah is going to have an upfront chat with him, as I'm certain from the way he was carrying himself, IE 'my boundary's here, and that's where I'm building to', means planning isn't even on his radar. He shall be informed that we're not happy, and that if he wants to go down that route he'll need to get planning. I'm sure if we didn't we'd one day wake up to simply see him building it.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 21:15

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 21:17

[CAPP0]

It has long been my understanding, even before the permitted development runs came in, that you can't extend in front of the building line of a house. The majority of "regular" houses have the front facing the roadway anyway.

About 30 years ago I lived in a detached house which was staggered back from the house next door, ie, we had a bigger front garden. I enquired about a front extension then, no further forward than the front line of the house next door, and the answer was still a very categoric No.

[Flibble]

Gavia said:

Squiggs said:

Ok I missed that bit out ....... but doesn't fronting have the same meaning as facing? (It won't be siding or backing a highway)

As the front of the house is only a few meters from the highway and the 'proposed extension' is going on the front of the house I'm pretty sure it will be fronting a highway.

Like I said, I don’t know. Does fronting mean being right on top of the highway, or just facing it?

Fully insured, qualified legal advice is the way forward, even if it’s use is a last resort.

It actually doesn't matter, the guide posted above is poorly punctuated. The specific wording from the legislation is:

[i]the enlarged part of the dwellinghouse would extend beyond a wall which—

(i)forms the principal elevation of the original dwellinghouse; or

(ii)fronts a highway and forms a side elevation of the original dwellinghouse
[/i]

Taken from: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedu...

So anything to the front, other than a porch, is not permitted, regardless of the situation of the highway.

Edited by Flibble on Tuesday 27th March 21:59

[Squiggs]

I'm not an expert but reading through the planning portal I'm 99.99% sure 'fronting a highway' can be taken to mean facing a highway.

Also from the portal
" Extensions forward of the principal elevation or side elevation of a house and fronting a highway are NOT permitted development"

In short I'm sure he would need planning permission (which he is very unlikely to get).

[Squiggs]

And so I refer to my earlier post .......

Squiggs said:

Suggest to him that he refers to the planning portal - adding (with a helpful neighbourly smile)
"Maybe you should check if you can extend full width at the front of a property without planning permission. If you can't, then getting permission might be difficult because I think some of the land is deemed to be communal. I'd hate you to be wasting money on materials for a project that can't go ahead"

You plant the seed - he checks - realises he can't extend - thanks you for helping him - neighbourly relations maintained - problem sorted!

[was8v]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Sarah is going to have an upfront chat with him

Brilliant, get your wife to do it, great PH response!

He definitely needs planning permission for more than 3m2 and depending on the ownership and rights on the land, he might need your permission too.

[Mothersruin]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

bennno said:

Planning required as its on the front, you can also flag up the 50% permitted development rule if his shed is as big as you have described....

That's the workshop. I suspect it's under 50%, but we're sure it's taller than allowed.

Workshop my arse.

[Mothersruin]

Btw - looking at Street view at the back of the properties (French Terrace) it looks like whoever was there before also loaded up the garden with structures.

[ashleyman]

You've said you share a front gate but looking at all the photos I can't see how he could extend out 2m towards the gate/fence and there be enough space for you to enter through the existing gate and get to your front door. (Unless the front gardens are deeper than they look).

If he does do this and you lose your access, would you need to then build a new gate so you can get to your house?