Open plan on deeds..... fence erecting?

[C Lee Farquar]

blueg33 said:

Note that the key thing is to give permission, if they have permission they cannot obtain adverse possession, as that has to be without consent of the landowner. Note IANAL.

JA Pye could have used your advice a few years back.

[blueg33]

C Lee Farquar said:

blueg33 said:

Note that the key thing is to give permission, if they have permission they cannot obtain adverse possession, as that has to be without consent of the landowner. Note IANAL.

JA Pye could have used your advice a few years back.

A few years back the advice was different. In the last 10 years I have worked very closely with my property lawyers on adverse possession issues both as a land owner and as a potential purchaser. It is now recognised that one of the tests is that the occupation of the land is without permission, along with excluding all others.

Like I said IANAL, but IIRC the J A Pye case did not give express permission, it allowed a previous agreement to lapse. Very different.

Edited by blueg33 on Wednesday 2nd May 12:37

[southendpier]

Can you invite the local youths round to boot a football at the fences every time you're out?

[dickymint]

Bank holiday weekend so I’m assuming OP has a delivery of 2 metre high fencing ............ not!!

[Beetnik]

M12MTR said:

I'm calling the planning office at my local council in the morning and my solicitor.

I will have my say / my build into the equation.

He started this and I will now finish it.

Come on OP, what did they say?

[Busa mav]

OP

Don’t let this take over your life, move on.

You couldn’t erect a stable fence there anyway without disturbing that fence, plus he would know straight away that he is getting to you.

You didn’t speak with him about this when the time was right, so best to stay quiet and move on.

Life is too short to let this wind you up .

Edited by Busa mav on Thursday 3rd May 08:58

[Chris Type R]

Play the long game and plant some trees which shed lots of blossoms. If the prevalent wind direction supports it.

[the_g_ster]

DonkeyApple said:

The wider question here is what is the social cure for the massive rise in extremely angry retired men! They’ve had the easiest life of any living human in history, are wealthy and healthy beyond any previous generation but so many seem absolutely filled with rage and indignation.

This comment is so on the money, maybe now the dust has settled on "Fencegate", Donkey is so right here. I wonder why?

[Hammer67]

Seeing as the neighbour has fixed a fence to the OPs garage wall I would take it as given he wouldn't object to the OP fixing stuff to his fence.

Maybe bolt another identical fence to it, albeit one that's twice as high at least.

[Welshbeef]

Checking in - no action more dithering

When is the OP weapon of fury going to be unleashed?

[mikyman]

At last OP is stirring himself into action! If he had previously acted on the good advice,given by those who have experience, then he could have nipped the building of this fence 'in the bud'.
His solicitor has the deeds and they confirm open plan no fences.It couldn't have been clearer.
OP needs to persue and contain this problem now,as I have previously said, it will make a future sale of his property very difficult without 'clean' deeds.
Yes it will cost,but much less than if any future house sale falls through.
Dont bother with council planners,they couldn't care less.
OP keep us updated on progress,but DO IT NOW.

[anonymous-user]

Now it's built I'd wager nothing will happen.
Could have been so simple to stop

[dickymint]

M12MTR said:

Spoke to council. They are looking into it.

My solicitor is drafting a letter........ it IS OPEN PLAN on the deeds. And if the direct neighbour opposes any type of fence it can be ordered taken down.

Bet you a tenner to a charity of your choice that the fence stays - your solicitor will also take your money. But with all sincerity I wish you well.

PS. Out of interest why are you going down the solicitor route and not the "i'll put up my own bigger fence route?

[mikeveal]

M12MTR said:

Spoke to council. They are looking into it.

My solicitor is drafting a letter........ it IS OPEN PLAN on the deeds. And if the direct neighbour opposes any type of fence it can be ordered taken down.

FFS listen to what the few experienced posters are telling you.
You are wasting your time. I'll summarise all that has been said spell it out for you.
Both you and your neighbour are prohibited from erecting a fence to the front of your property by a covenant in your deeds. You asked your solicitor "can I put up a fence at the front?" Your solicitor answered "No." Your solicitor is technically correct.

As you've been told multiple times covenants are enforceable only by the beneficiary. If you are not the beneficiary, you can not enforce it. Neither can the council. In the case Blueg33 has seen your deeds and tells us that the beneficiary was the developer. The developer, or their heir are the only ones who could seek to enforce the covenant. If the developer no longer exists then no one exists to enforce the covenant and both you and your neighbour are (practically, if not technically) free to do as you wish.


It seems to have been established that the fence as erected will not contravene local planning regs. So the council will not act on that either.

You've told us that none of this fence is on your property, so you have no grounds for action there.

Technically digging up your lawn and bolting the rear fence to your garage is criminal damage. If you think you'll get anywhere asking the Police and CPS to pursue this, I suggest a reality check.

You could quantify your losses & sue for damages through the civil courts. Whilst you'd be right, even if you won, it wouldn't be worth it as you'd have to declare the neighbour dispute when you sell. The court would award you damages equal to your losses, they would not require the neighbour to take his fence down.

Lastly, please stop to consider for a moment how the bitter old curmudgeon next door changed from an angelic child, no doubt the apple of his mothers eye, into what he is now. It will have been through confrontation and bearing grudges. You do realise that you're showing signs of heading down the same (nicely fenced) path?

Let it go and ignore the grumpy sod.

[Welshbeef]

OP have a bbq this weekend and genuinely invite him round a couple of beers and a sausage or two could tails a good outcome.

[21TonyK]

mikeveal said:

Lastly, please stop to consider for a moment how the bitter old curmudgeon next door changed from an angelic child, no doubt the apple of his mothers eye, into what he is now. It will have been through confrontation and bearing grudges. You do realise that you're showing signs of heading down the same (nicely fenced) path?

Let it go and ignore the grumpy sod.

Best advice so far.

[FiF]

21TonyK said:

mikeveal said:

Lastly, please stop to consider for a moment how the bitter old curmudgeon next door changed from an angelic child, no doubt the apple of his mothers eye, into what he is now. It will have been through confrontation and bearing grudges. You do realise that you're showing signs of heading down the same (nicely fenced) path?

Let it go and ignore the grumpy sod.

Best advice so far.

Seconded, as before thread retitle "When Cocks Collide."

[mikyman]

The majority of developers 'pass on 'all rights and restrictions to the original purchaser and then each subsequent purchaser.Any one who has purchased property would have had to sign receipt and understanding of, the terms of the deeds.I know its a small point but has your solicitor obtained a copy of neighbours deeds? Usually on developments they are mirror image of yours.However indicating in the letter he is writing that the neighbour is aware of,signed for, and susequently disregarded the terms, makes it more 'water tight'.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I’m sorry but this thread has been the most hilarious example of nimbyism I’ve seen in ages on PH.

As far as I’m concerned the two neighbours deserve each other.

[dickymint]

mikeveal said:

M12MTR said:

Spoke to council. They are looking into it.

My solicitor is drafting a letter........ it IS OPEN PLAN on the deeds. And if the direct neighbour opposes any type of fence it can be ordered taken down.

FFS listen to what the few experienced posters are telling you.
You are wasting your time. I'll summarise all that has been said spell it out for you.
Both you and your neighbour are prohibited from erecting a fence to the front of your property by a covenant in your deeds. You asked your solicitor "can I put up a fence at the front?" Your solicitor answered "No." Your solicitor is technically correct.

As you've been told multiple times covenants are enforceable only by the beneficiary. If you are not the beneficiary, you can not enforce it. Neither can the council. In the case Blueg33 has seen your deeds and tells us that the beneficiary was the developer. The developer, or their heir are the only ones who could seek to enforce the covenant. If the developer no longer exists then no one exists to enforce the covenant and both you and your neighbour are (practically, if not technically) free to do as you wish.


It seems to have been established that the fence as erected will not contravene local planning regs. So the council will not act on that either.

You've told us that none of this fence is on your property, so you have no grounds for action there.

Technically digging up your lawn and bolting the rear fence to your garage is criminal damage. If you think you'll get anywhere asking the Police and CPS to pursue this, I suggest a reality check.

You could quantify your losses & sue for damages through the civil courts. Whilst you'd be right, even if you won, it wouldn't be worth it as you'd have to declare the neighbour dispute when you sell. The court would award you damages equal to your losses, they would not require the neighbour to take his fence down.

Lastly, please stop to consider for a moment how the bitter old curmudgeon next door changed from an angelic child, no doubt the apple of his mothers eye, into what he is now. It will have been through confrontation and bearing grudges. You do realise that you're showing signs of heading down the same (nicely fenced) path?

Let it go and ignore the grumpy sod.

As regards the new fence I think OP may well be on sticky ground there even. My interpretation of the law is that the neighbour is perfectly within his rights to dig and put footings under OP’s ground? Albeit notice should be given first?