Moving a neighbours fence
Discussion
What's the legal standpoint on moving a fence that your neighbour has erected on your land?
Long story is, we returned from holiday last Sunday morning to find that our new neighbours (we moved in Feb/March, they moved in April) have cut all the trees and shrubs down between our driveway and their path and erected a fence.
Not particularly bothered about the trees going as such, but what I am bothered about is how far over they've put the fence up on our land.
Previously we had an old coal bunker at the side of the garage and in front of that is where we put our two wheelie bins. So we had around 4ft or more from the front corner of the garage to the hedge/tree line. Now we can't even squeeze one bin between the garage and fence.
We spoke to the neighbours on Monday evening and told them we weren't happy as it's not in the right place, stumps have been left on our side (bit of a poor show I thought) and asked them what they intend to do about it.
Much mumbling about it being better than it was, they paid good money for it, not sure why the fencing people have done it like that, follows what their deeds shows etc.
Ended up in a bit of a stalemate, so I popped round with a copy of our deeds to show them the boundary line actually curves away from our property and into theirs, so they've got the curvature wrong. This was followed by the husband stating "oh, I know about that" and shutting the door on us!
From looking at their house head on it's easy to see why they've done it, they can now get a car down the side of their house and we overhead them saying to a friend they want to put a garage there.
Doesn't look like they're really willing to resolve it amicably as it'll scupper their extension plans.
Am i well within my rights, legally, to remove said fence from my land? Obviously without damaging it! Or is it a case of gather as much evidence as possible and legal/via solicitors?
The panels will slide out and I'm sure my father in law will have some kind of machinery to lift the concrete posts out.
ETA - the neighbours land registry title/deeds also show the same curvature of the boundary towards them as ours do.
Long story is, we returned from holiday last Sunday morning to find that our new neighbours (we moved in Feb/March, they moved in April) have cut all the trees and shrubs down between our driveway and their path and erected a fence.
Not particularly bothered about the trees going as such, but what I am bothered about is how far over they've put the fence up on our land.
Previously we had an old coal bunker at the side of the garage and in front of that is where we put our two wheelie bins. So we had around 4ft or more from the front corner of the garage to the hedge/tree line. Now we can't even squeeze one bin between the garage and fence.
We spoke to the neighbours on Monday evening and told them we weren't happy as it's not in the right place, stumps have been left on our side (bit of a poor show I thought) and asked them what they intend to do about it.
Much mumbling about it being better than it was, they paid good money for it, not sure why the fencing people have done it like that, follows what their deeds shows etc.
Ended up in a bit of a stalemate, so I popped round with a copy of our deeds to show them the boundary line actually curves away from our property and into theirs, so they've got the curvature wrong. This was followed by the husband stating "oh, I know about that" and shutting the door on us!
From looking at their house head on it's easy to see why they've done it, they can now get a car down the side of their house and we overhead them saying to a friend they want to put a garage there.
Doesn't look like they're really willing to resolve it amicably as it'll scupper their extension plans.
Am i well within my rights, legally, to remove said fence from my land? Obviously without damaging it! Or is it a case of gather as much evidence as possible and legal/via solicitors?
The panels will slide out and I'm sure my father in law will have some kind of machinery to lift the concrete posts out.
ETA - the neighbours land registry title/deeds also show the same curvature of the boundary towards them as ours do.
Edited by DanSkoda on Wednesday 13th June 10:11
You are assuming at this stage that you are right and they are wrong as to the actual legal boundary line so I would avoid touching the fence for now as it could be regarded as criminal damage if in fact it is on their land after all.
If you cannot agree things then its the legal road I am afraid, and the costs will outweigh any benefits I imagine in this case.
If its just a mater of a pain to site your bins, and that's all then as hard as it may feel, probably best just to suck it up.
A number of posts on here with similar issues if you do some searching.
If you cannot agree things then its the legal road I am afraid, and the costs will outweigh any benefits I imagine in this case.
If its just a mater of a pain to site your bins, and that's all then as hard as it may feel, probably best just to suck it up.
A number of posts on here with similar issues if you do some searching.
Our neighbours erected a new fence. Strangely, they turned it backwards so the posts were in the correct place but the fence was on the inside, effectively giving us an additional 4" of garden, oh well!
Unfortunately, the first post they put in next to the gate was totally on our side of the line so their fence lined up with the original gatepost and the new fencepost was entirely on our land. Under normal circumstances I would not have had too much issue with this, however, as it was by the gate, it meant that we could no longer open the gate far enough to move the bins out to be collected. A simple conversation with the neighbour and they had the fence company back out to rectify in plenty of time to get the bins out.
Unfortunately, the first post they put in next to the gate was totally on our side of the line so their fence lined up with the original gatepost and the new fencepost was entirely on our land. Under normal circumstances I would not have had too much issue with this, however, as it was by the gate, it meant that we could no longer open the gate far enough to move the bins out to be collected. A simple conversation with the neighbour and they had the fence company back out to rectify in plenty of time to get the bins out.
PAUL500 said:
If its just a mater of a pain to site your bins, and that's all then as hard as it may feel, probably best just to suck it up.
A number of posts on here with similar issues if you do some searching.
Have to disagree otherwise when you come to move you may find yourself reading a thread in the future on PH were someone says they've found what seems to be the ideal house but it looks like a neighbouring property has put up a boundary fence in order to access their garage on what would be "your" land. The advice you would likely get would be to move on and find another house and not open up a world of grief. This is the time to deal with the issue.A number of posts on here with similar issues if you do some searching.
My advice, (a) make sure your interpretation of the boundary is correct. Unfortunately that may involve a cost then (b) ask your neighbour again to remove that part of the fence that's on your property or simply carefully remove it yourself and return it. There's no need to go all legal eagle. If you've already done (a) then move on to (b). It's probably not great for good neighbour relations but it seems like they're in short supply at the moment anyhow.
I'd put your concerns very clearly and plainly in writing (try to avoid mock-legal speak!), referencing your attempt to discuss it with them, and giving them 14 days to move the fence off your land. Attach a copy of your deeds with the line of the new fence fairly represented on it to show the factual error. I'd make clear that if the fence is not moved you will be forced to act to maintain the integrity of the boundary of your property and that you are now seeking professional advice from on the matter.
I'd drop it round and attempt to describe what is in the letter. Be calm, relaxed but very matter of fact. The fence is on your property so if it is not moved it will have to be taken down. I'd then use the time to do some research and line up suitably experienced legal support. Boundary disputes can be expensive so compelling them to act before you go down that line is the ideal outcome.
For what it is worth, their behaviour is appalling but if they are happy to act like this when you're on holiday they'll be that self-justifying sort so you have probably lost them as reasonable neighbours for good now. I'd accept that, be civil, but focus on getting the boundary issue resolved.
ETA - Just seen some comments on people saying suck it up. If you do that they can claim adverse ownership in time so you would be giving your land away.
This isn't massively useful but the points on the cost of dispute, potential use of insurance for legal fees and adverse ownership are worth noting.
https://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/property-news/l...
I'd drop it round and attempt to describe what is in the letter. Be calm, relaxed but very matter of fact. The fence is on your property so if it is not moved it will have to be taken down. I'd then use the time to do some research and line up suitably experienced legal support. Boundary disputes can be expensive so compelling them to act before you go down that line is the ideal outcome.
For what it is worth, their behaviour is appalling but if they are happy to act like this when you're on holiday they'll be that self-justifying sort so you have probably lost them as reasonable neighbours for good now. I'd accept that, be civil, but focus on getting the boundary issue resolved.
ETA - Just seen some comments on people saying suck it up. If you do that they can claim adverse ownership in time so you would be giving your land away.
This isn't massively useful but the points on the cost of dispute, potential use of insurance for legal fees and adverse ownership are worth noting.
https://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/property-news/l...
Edited by Hitch on Wednesday 13th June 12:25
How are the deeds set out ? What's the scale of the drawing on the deeds ?
At 1:100 that 1 - 2 mm thick line on the deeds is 10 - 20 cm variance when measured on the ground. At 1:250 it becomes 25 - 50 cm variance, at 1:500, well you get the picture.
Unless the deeds specify specific measurements from landmarks you might not have much to stand on.
Was the centre of the tree bole/hedge acknowledged to be the boundary line, or were they initially planted on one side, or other, of the boundary line ?
At 1:100 that 1 - 2 mm thick line on the deeds is 10 - 20 cm variance when measured on the ground. At 1:250 it becomes 25 - 50 cm variance, at 1:500, well you get the picture.
Unless the deeds specify specific measurements from landmarks you might not have much to stand on.
Was the centre of the tree bole/hedge acknowledged to be the boundary line, or were they initially planted on one side, or other, of the boundary line ?
Your neighbours knew exactly what they were doing. They knew that you wouldn't be happy. That's why they did it whilst you were away.
As much as conflict with neighbours is undesirable, I think you need to stand up for yourself on this one. Who knows what they will try next time.
Providing you are correct regarding the line of the boundary, you could give them a choice of legal proceedings or you could offer to sell them your piece of land and redefine the boundary?
As much as conflict with neighbours is undesirable, I think you need to stand up for yourself on this one. Who knows what they will try next time.
Providing you are correct regarding the line of the boundary, you could give them a choice of legal proceedings or you could offer to sell them your piece of land and redefine the boundary?
Andy 308GTB said:
Your neighbours knew exactly what they were doing. They knew that you wouldn't be happy. That's why they did it whilst you were away.
As much as conflict with neighbours is undesirable, I think you need to stand up for yourself on this one. Who knows what they will try next time.
Providing you are correct regarding the line of the boundary, you could give them a choice of legal proceedings or you could offer to sell them your piece of land and redefine the boundary?
I was going to suggest that also, find out how much that piece of land would really cost, then add on a nice extra chunk and offer it to them at the inflated price instead of removing the fence, especially since it may affect their future extension plans also. As much as conflict with neighbours is undesirable, I think you need to stand up for yourself on this one. Who knows what they will try next time.
Providing you are correct regarding the line of the boundary, you could give them a choice of legal proceedings or you could offer to sell them your piece of land and redefine the boundary?
Assuming you don't mind storing the bins elsewhere and losing that section of land.
Hopefully a picture will help?
The red outline is the neighbours, don't have a digital copy of ours, but our property is the one on the left.
What they've done is from the bottom left of the boundary line, gone in a straight line to the rear. Effectively cutting us off from the curved area. It's a good 50ft long run too. If it was a few inches here or there I wouldn't be so fussed, but it's a fair few feet out.
Photo from the roadside shows how they've actually stepped it off their back fence and bent it into our garden.
The red outline is the neighbours, don't have a digital copy of ours, but our property is the one on the left.
What they've done is from the bottom left of the boundary line, gone in a straight line to the rear. Effectively cutting us off from the curved area. It's a good 50ft long run too. If it was a few inches here or there I wouldn't be so fussed, but it's a fair few feet out.
Edited by DanSkoda on Wednesday 13th June 14:14
Photo from the roadside shows how they've actually stepped it off their back fence and bent it into our garden.
Edited by DanSkoda on Wednesday 13th June 14:20
Not sure what sort of a car he's hoping to get into any garage built on that strip. Messerschmidt maybe? Bond Bug? Either way, what a bloody chancer.
Several years ago our neighbour wrecked the fence between us by leaning bags of building rubble against it. We're still waiting for him to reinstate it.
Several years ago our neighbour wrecked the fence between us by leaning bags of building rubble against it. We're still waiting for him to reinstate it.
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