Informal Planning Advice prior to Complaint?
Discussion
Hi all,
Our lovely neighbours (other half of a semi detached) have decided to put up a "small seating area" which has miraculously turned into a 6m x 6m decking area which borders our fence line.
So far, no problem. However, our houses slope drastically front to back to the extent that the ground level at the rear wall of the houses is about 4ft below the front ground level and by the time you're 5m from the back wall of our houses, you are an entire floor below the front ground level.
Now, a previous owner of next door extended at the rear projecting into the rear garden by 5m, so the drop from their now extended back door to ground level is about 7ft.
So finally we come to the crux of the problem, our wonderful neighbours have installed the above decking area going straight out of their rear extension at the front ground floor level height. The result is that the decking literally sits above our (6ft) fence line and they now have a large, unobstructed viewing platform into half of our garden.
I've discussed our issues with the neighbours on several ocassions, have been promised various compromises in return, all of which seem to have been ignored. So, it seems there's only one avenue left to me.
The planning rules on decking seem clear as I understand them: a deck that doesn't protrude any more than 300mm above ground level or detract from a neighbour's privacy is a permitted development, anything else requires permission. A significant barrier to permission being granted is the invasion of a neighbour's privacy.
This deck would appear to break both criteria (assuming the ground level isn't taken from the front of the house) and there has been no planning application.
On top of the above, there is currently no fence/balustrade around their platform, which gives them an unguarded 6ft drop from the edge into our garden and the rest of their garden - I believe this contravenes building control regulations.
However, it seems that you can't make a complaint to the planning department anonymously, so if I complain, the neighbours are going to know it's me. I don't have a problem with that on the face of it, but it would seem pointless to do it without ensuring that my complaint has a good chance of being upheld before I "press the nuclear button" with the neighbours.
So, can anyone tell me if and how I can get some planning advice, prior to taking it any further?
Our lovely neighbours (other half of a semi detached) have decided to put up a "small seating area" which has miraculously turned into a 6m x 6m decking area which borders our fence line.
So far, no problem. However, our houses slope drastically front to back to the extent that the ground level at the rear wall of the houses is about 4ft below the front ground level and by the time you're 5m from the back wall of our houses, you are an entire floor below the front ground level.
Now, a previous owner of next door extended at the rear projecting into the rear garden by 5m, so the drop from their now extended back door to ground level is about 7ft.
So finally we come to the crux of the problem, our wonderful neighbours have installed the above decking area going straight out of their rear extension at the front ground floor level height. The result is that the decking literally sits above our (6ft) fence line and they now have a large, unobstructed viewing platform into half of our garden.
I've discussed our issues with the neighbours on several ocassions, have been promised various compromises in return, all of which seem to have been ignored. So, it seems there's only one avenue left to me.
The planning rules on decking seem clear as I understand them: a deck that doesn't protrude any more than 300mm above ground level or detract from a neighbour's privacy is a permitted development, anything else requires permission. A significant barrier to permission being granted is the invasion of a neighbour's privacy.
This deck would appear to break both criteria (assuming the ground level isn't taken from the front of the house) and there has been no planning application.
On top of the above, there is currently no fence/balustrade around their platform, which gives them an unguarded 6ft drop from the edge into our garden and the rest of their garden - I believe this contravenes building control regulations.
However, it seems that you can't make a complaint to the planning department anonymously, so if I complain, the neighbours are going to know it's me. I don't have a problem with that on the face of it, but it would seem pointless to do it without ensuring that my complaint has a good chance of being upheld before I "press the nuclear button" with the neighbours.
So, can anyone tell me if and how I can get some planning advice, prior to taking it any further?
You are right that it needs permission, and if it is how you describe then they are unlikely to get it.
Would adding a privacy screen to the side overcome concerns or will it still be intrusive due to the height?
Enforcement complaints are actually anonymous - though I suppose it wouldn't take a genius to work out who has complained!
Would adding a privacy screen to the side overcome concerns or will it still be intrusive due to the height?
Enforcement complaints are actually anonymous - though I suppose it wouldn't take a genius to work out who has complained!
Hub said:
You are right that it needs permission, and if it is how you describe then they are unlikely to get it.
Would adding a privacy screen to the side overcome concerns or will it still be intrusive due to the height?
Enforcement complaints are actually anonymous - though I suppose it wouldn't take a genius to work out who has complained!
Thanks for the advice. My main concern is what the planning officer will take as ground level as it's not particularly clear whether it will be the level at the front wall, original back wall, extended back wall, or something else?Would adding a privacy screen to the side overcome concerns or will it still be intrusive due to the height?
Enforcement complaints are actually anonymous - though I suppose it wouldn't take a genius to work out who has complained!
Also, I didn't think a complaint could be made without a name being put against it? I thought I read that on one of the planning department websites. Could you shed any light on how an anonymous complaint would be made?
Re the possibility of a screen, they promised to put up a 3 ft fence on our side of their deck a month ago, which is a considerable compromise for us as it means we would then have a 10ft fence for 6m of our garden, but they've failed to even do that.
Edited by youngsyr on Thursday 19th July 22:30
JQ said:
Might be worth reading this thread. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks for the link! Bit of a mixed bag reading it - our situation is much more clear cut than the one that started that thread (our neighbour's deck is higher, larger and closer to our boundary) and which seemed to have breached planning, but others in that thread have stated that ground level in their cases was taken from the highest adjacent point, which brings in subjectivity and is my main concern.What I'm looking for is at what point the ground level will be taken. If it's the front of the house, then the deck is at "ground level", if it's the rearmost part of the decking, then it's at least 6ft above the current ground level (which I believe has been raised to level both ours and next door's gardens) and possibly as much as 8 ft above the original ground level!
Saved from elswhere
"Decking Projects Requiring Planning Permission include the following (There can be other reasons)
"Decking Projects Requiring Planning Permission include the following (There can be other reasons)
- If the deck is situated within 20 metres of a highway. (This means the closest part of the footpath - not the road!)
- Where the deck is at 1st floor level of the house or above.
- If any part of the deck construction exceeds 3m in height from original ground level to the top of the balustrade.
- If the structure would affect the amenity value or privacy of neighbouring properties. (For example if your deck is situated where it intrudes on your neighbours privacy and normal use of house or garden)
- If you live in a flat or maisonette
- If the deck is attached to a listed building or situated in a conservation area or National Park.
youngsyr said:
Also, I didn't think a complaint could be made without a name being put against it? I thought I read that on one of the planning department websites. Could you shed any light on how an anonymous complaint would be made?
If you are objecting to a planning application then that is the case, but f you are notifying the Council's Planning Enforcement team of a planning breach then that is anonymous.The ground level wouldn't be taken from the front, it would be the highest natural point at the rear I think.
snake_oil said:
If it's above the fence line overlooking your garden, frankly it sounds like an open and shut case. Got any pics?
Well, that's what I would hope, but putting in a planning complaint against our neighbour is probably going to mean that we take an already bitter relationship and make it permanent. As we have no intention of moving, this is not ideal. However, after them being very deceiftul about exactly what work they were having done, I've discussed the deck once it was up with them several times and they won't budge - they feel that a large platform with unobscured views into our entire garden is within their rights as property owners and we're being selfish by pointing out that it removes all privacy from our garden. And in any case "it's up now" so I should get over it.
It wouldn't be so bad, but they entertain on it frequently- last night I went out to water the garden only be stared at by about 8 strangers they were hosting for a dinner party on their deck.
I'm a bit reluctant to post pics, but I can assure you, the level of the deck protrudes about 1" above the fence line, which it borders. It's so high above the ground level that there is a 3/4 high storage cupboard underneath it in which they store their lawnmower, rakes, etc.
The only aspect that I feel weakens the case is the sloping ground level. I'm still not clear what this actually is, given the extension and works done to both our houses over the years (the houses are 80 years old).
Hub said:
youngsyr said:
Also, I didn't think a complaint could be made without a name being put against it? I thought I read that on one of the planning department websites. Could you shed any light on how an anonymous complaint would be made?
If you are objecting to a planning application then that is the case, but f you are notifying the Council's Planning Enforcement team of a planning breach then that is anonymous.The ground level wouldn't be taken from the front, it would be the highest natural point at the rear I think.
Is it possible to get independent planning advice from a surveyor etc? I would like to get some comfort for our specific situation that there is a solid case for a breach, as once that complaint goes in, our relationship with out neighbours will be irreparably damaged. I want to make sure we don't take that step without an excellent chance of having the deck taken down.
dmsims said:
You have multiple grounds to report them to planning
You can also also report them to BC since a deck that high need a 1.2m balustrade
This opens up another discussion - if the ground level is taken as the level at the rear of the deck, then the deck is at least 6ft above ground level. If BC then require a 1.2m balustrade as you suggest (and that agrees to what I've read), then the total height of the deck (inc. balustrade) is 10 ft, which I believe would require planning in its own right, even if it weren't for the floor heigh of the deck and the privacy issue.You can also also report them to BC since a deck that high need a 1.2m balustrade
Obviously I don't particularly want a 10ft high fence along 6m of my garden, so the only solution which doesn't either remove our privacy or our light is to lower the deck. This obviously won't go down well with the neighbours.
Frankly, I'm amazed the builders went along with it, but then again I'm amazed anyone can think that such a structure is reasonable either, so what do I know?!
desolate said:
When someone reported us for alleged planning breach the Cheshire East enforcement people responded as if it was a blue light emergency.
I'd just ring them up.
I checked our planning portals procedures - they state that filling in the web form is the fastest way to lodge a complaint and any phone calls or letters will just wait to be transcribed into the web form. I'd just ring them up.
They also state that anonymous complaints are unlikely to be investigated, but they will keep the complainer's details confidential. I guess it doesn't make much difference, it will be obvious that it's us that has complained. I just want to make sure that the complaint will be upheld before I make it.
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