How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)

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Scrump

Original Poster:

21,889 posts

157 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
Continued from here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Remember to keep it within the rules thumbup

tumble dryer

1,999 posts

126 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
Scrump said:
Continued from here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Remember to keep it within the rules thumbup
Who, us?? smile

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
Here we go again.

FiF

43,962 posts

250 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.

JuanCarlosFandango

7,787 posts

70 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
Who made you the internet police?!?!

JuanCarlosFandango

7,787 posts

70 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
Gareth1974 said:
I’m struggling to see how something better than May’s deal can be found, unless we have the “border in the Irish Sea” which will never be acceptable to Unionists, or go against the Good Friday agreement, and have some kind of border arrangement between N.I. and the Republic of Ireland.

The Customs Union idea that seems to be gathering momentum would largely prevent the N.I. issue/need for the backstop that we requested, but gives us less freedom than May’s plan.
We could simply have an open border. I don't see any problem with that politically in Britain or in Ireland, from the little I know of Irish politics. We have had free travel for decades, neither of us are in Schengen and neither are drastically cheap or full of would be immigrants desperate to cross. By simple geography it's hard to imagine hordes of shoppers from the continent flooding up to Northern Ireland via the Republic to load up on American chlorinated chicken or £10 a pack B&H, or an army of illegal migrants preferring to go via Dublin.

So just keep the border as it is.

Accept that a few people a few miles either side will border hop for fuel etc, and get on with it.

The best I've been able to get from Remainers is that the EU has to have customs checks to protect its single market, though nobody seems to know from what. Or a vague possibility that the EU may in future lodge a complaint with the WTO to tackle some as yet unspecified issue relating to its customs procedures. Usually followed by a petulant reminder that it was Leave who wanted border controls so we couldn't possibly have an open border with Ireland. To which a Leaver might well respond that it's the EU that wanted peace, cooperation and open borders in Europe so it's a bit rich to now demand a border.

The fact that the obvious, elegant and zero effort idea has barely been discussed makes me fairly sure that these "negotiations" have been a sham from day one and the whole withdrawal agreement is no more than a diversion to make us either remain in the EU or lock us in to all the significant parts of the project while giving us blue passports and a few other tokens to keep those old duffers happy until the new generation of Europhile internationalists takes over. A dangerous delusion, but exactly the sort of dangerous delusion power mad dictators fall for.

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
Well said sir rofl

Was the last one the fastest volume yet - it really felt like it!!!

tumble dryer

1,999 posts

126 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
Here we go again.
I don't post here a lot but I think I read most of what's written, and I was wondering just how many members are similar, or don't post at all?

Have we a large silent readership? Anyone know, or care to guess?

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
JuanCarlosFandango said:
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
Who made you the internet police?!?!
We had a referendum 52% of PH said he should be and 48% preferred "Budgie"

eharding

13,600 posts

283 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
Holding out the vain hope of some patently unobtainable outcome in the face of overwhelming evidence that the exact opposite is inevitable.

Oooh, you're soooooo Brexit.

Carl_Manchester

12,103 posts

261 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
re: customs union.

The EU have rejected the idea previously of a customs union without free movement.

Labour can point the fingers but this is a circular discussion where the UK can’t dictate the terms and I think this is why talks have broken down.

Three years of negotiations behind the scenes and i cant believe this is where we are, pointless attempts at point scoring against at a PM who has the best deal on the table and it’s take it or leave it time.

I don’t like the deal either but it was clear from the start that the EU would not negotiate. It’s a shame but EU politics died in 2016.


B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Ayahuasca said:
Here we go again.
I don't post here a lot but I think I read most of what's written, and I was wondering just how many members are similar, or don't post at all?

Have we a large silent readership? Anyone know, or care to guess?
I think the number of active posters on PH (well active in NP&E) is around 1800 - 2000

Registered Users is close to 580,000

slow_poke

1,855 posts

233 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Gareth1974 said:
I’m struggling to see how something better than May’s deal can be found, unless we have the “border in the Irish Sea” which will never be acceptable to Unionists, or go against the Good Friday agreement, and have some kind of border arrangement between N.I. and the Republic of Ireland.

The Customs Union idea that seems to be gathering momentum would largely prevent the N.I. issue/need for the backstop that we requested, but gives us less freedom than May’s plan.
We could simply have an open border. I don't see any problem with that politically in Britain or in Ireland, from the little I know of Irish politics. We have had free travel for decades, neither of us are in Schengen and neither are drastically cheap or full of would be immigrants desperate to cross. By simple geography it's hard to imagine hordes of shoppers from the continent flooding up to Northern Ireland via the Republic to load up on American chlorinated chicken or £10 a pack B&H, or an army of illegal migrants preferring to go via Dublin.

So just keep the border as it is.

Accept that a few people a few miles either side will border hop for fuel etc, and get on with it.

The best I've been able to get from Remainers is that the EU has to have customs checks to protect its single market, though nobody seems to know from what. Or a vague possibility that the EU may in future lodge a complaint with the WTO to tackle some as yet unspecified issue relating to its customs procedures. Usually followed by a petulant reminder that it was Leave who wanted border controls so we couldn't possibly have an open border with Ireland. To which a Leaver might well respond that it's the EU that wanted peace, cooperation and open borders in Europe so it's a bit rich to now demand a border.

The fact that the obvious, elegant and zero effort idea has barely been discussed makes me fairly sure that these "negotiations" have been a sham from day one and the whole withdrawal agreement is no more than a diversion to make us either remain in the EU or lock us in to all the significant parts of the project while giving us blue passports and a few other tokens to keep those old duffers happy until the new generation of Europhile internationalists takes over. A dangerous delusion, but exactly the sort of dangerous delusion power mad dictators fall for.
I don't think it's quite that simple somehow. If it was, we'd be Brexited by now.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
B'stard Child said:
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
Well said sir rofl

Was the last one the fastest volume yet - it really felt like it!!!
That's an age thing biggrin

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's never going to happen so the answer is infinity as the discussion will keep rolling round perhaps dying sometimes to be resurrected every decade by a teenager studying the period and asking a question of a long since dead member wink

Please not the death of any member on here is not something I want to happen it's just a fact of life

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
B'stard Child said:
It's never going to happen so the answer is infinity as the discussion will keep rolling round perhaps dying sometimes to be resurrected every decade by a teenager studying the period and asking a question of a long since dead member wink

Please not the death of any member on here is not something I want to happen it's just a fact of life
Just interested - how do you ask a question of a long since dead member ?

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
Have we given the £350M to the NHS yet?? #startlikeyoumeantogoon ;-)


JuanCarlosFandango

7,787 posts

70 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
B'stard Child said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
Who made you the internet police?!?!
We had a referendum 52% of PH said he should be and 48% preferred "Budgie"
??????

psi310398

9,036 posts

202 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
B'stard Child said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
Who made you the internet police?!?!
We had a referendum 52% of PH said he should be and 48% preferred "Budgie"
Well, if I understand the application of Remainer rules and Diane Abbot maths, that makes Budgie the internet police, doesn't itsmile?

frisbee

4,957 posts

109 months

Friday 5th April 2019
quotequote all
Although this is Vol 10, I can see the number of volumes of EU negotiation threads being swiftly overtaken by the number of votes on May's deal.
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