The Roundhouse - Luxembourg

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loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Sunday 7th July 2019
quotequote all
After following 5potTurbo- RC1807's build during (and indeed before) a move to Luxembourg in 2017, I knew that after an initial three year rental we'd probably be buying in Luxembourg. I didn't know if we'd get a new build or not but it seems we have ended up buying, or at least committing to buy, a part-completed 4-bed build in a small town to the East of Luxembourg city, a few km from the vineyards of the Moselle.

Buying in Lux in odd if you're used to the, IMHO dreadful, UK process so it will be a learning process for us in terms of procedure as well as construction as we have never built our own home before.

It was a carpenter's workshop but the old shell was obliterated as all new builds here have to be AAA-rated 'passive homes' which is difficult or impossible to achieve without a dedicated build. Here's what the place looks like today. It will have an air-source heat pump and underfloor heating, and triple glazing etc. throughout, and as pretty much everything here has, externally-applied insulation.



The foundations, external and some internal blockwork are done, and the roof and the windows went in a few weeks ago. We now have to pick kitchen, toilets, showers etc, specify the electrical and plumbing layout and pick tiles, paint etc. Even though the house looks fairly complete there is still a lot of scope for changing and customising. Everyone here seems to say budget about 10% over the original budget for stuff like that. We shall see...

It's a bit of an odd house as it is relatively large (240 sqm, or about 2,600 sqft) but doesn't have a garden, due to the shape/size of the plot. We looked at what we do outside and it really amounts to sitting on our existing terrace having a drink or BBQ and the kids (10 & 13) are getting to the point where they don't even bother with the garden either.

The reality of house prices here means that some compromise is inevitable for anyone without the budget of Bank of China, and as we were already happy to accept an apartment in the city we figured that the loss of the garden isn't too big a deal. It does have a modest outside terrace on one floor and a smaller balcony on another so it's not as if there is no outside space, and it will certainly save me having to wrestle grass throughout the summer!

Ground floor: Double garage, kitchen, open plan living area, small outdoor area left unbuilt due to sightlines which is intended for heat exchanger which we may be able to do something with (Mrs LLJ is thinking wine storage!)



First floor: MBR with dressing room (or office, not decided yet) and en-suite shower room, bathroom, WC, and spare bedroom



Second floor: Bedrooms 2 & 3, bathroom, WC and small additional room for office or storage.



The images are older ones that don't fully reflect the build, so things like the 1st floor layout and the utility room on the top floor have been modified.

There is still a lot of leeway on how we place things like laundry and heating, unusually for Lux there is no basement where all that nasty stuff usually resides so we need to decide whether they go in garage, the room on the top floor, or a mix or both.

Will try to keep this updated as much for me as for anyone else.

Any questions etc. thumbup

Edited by loudlashadjuster on Sunday 7th July 17:41

shalmaneser

5,930 posts

194 months

Sunday 7th July 2019
quotequote all
Love a good build thread! Can we see a floorplan? Where is the garage?

Exciting (and expensive!) times ahead!

CharlesdeGaulle

26,091 posts

179 months

Sunday 7th July 2019
quotequote all
Great news, and thanks for starting a thread. I was following your news on the other Lux thread and will follow this with interest as I'm currently renting and considering buying.

It'll be interesting to see how your experience compares to buying an older property, noting the tax advantages of buying new perhaps off-set by the likely cost over-runs and premium for new stuff.

RC1807

12,482 posts

167 months

Sunday 7th July 2019
quotequote all
Happy to follow your build too!

IIRC, we spent quite a lot more on cabling (electric, satellite and Cat 6), sanitary ware and tiles. We don't have as many m2 as you.

I may pop by and have a nose! wink

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Sunday 7th July 2019
quotequote all
shalmaneser said:
Love a good build thread! Can we see a floorplan? Where is the garage?

Exciting (and expensive!) times ahead!
Ta smile

Have added earlier floor plans, slightly different from as-built. The current ones I only have as A3 prints.

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Sunday 7th July 2019
quotequote all
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Great news, and thanks for starting a thread. I was following your news on the other Lux thread and will follow this with interest as I'm currently renting and considering buying.

It'll be interesting to see how your experience compares to buying an older property, noting the tax advantages of buying new perhaps off-set by the likely cost over-runs and premium for new stuff.
Yeah, the tax thing is...complicated. This was advertised at €855k ex VAT as the different parts attract different rates depending on the stage of construction, and there are fixed and personal tax benefits that may also apply, then you've got to add kitchen (never included in new build prices here AFAIK) and any upgrades/modifications you make during the build, some of which may increase not only the VAT exposure but also architect or bureaucratic fees, which can also change the VAT, making the apparently simple process of knowing how much the build will end up costing surprisingly tricky. Suffice to say it'll be well into seven figures by the time it's done.

Thankfully the banks here are a lot more flexible in their appraisal of stuff like this, and extend interest-only loans at the same (low) rate for any stuff you're likely to get back as tax rebates etc., and they're happy to add the 10+% on top to whatever they'll lend you so you get it completed properly, so when the dust has settled and you get the keys they'll fix the total mortgage amount and payments at what was actually spent. Makes a lot of sense, actually.

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Sunday 7th July 2019
quotequote all
RC1807 said:
Happy to follow your build too!

IIRC, we spent quite a lot more on cabling (electric, satellite and Cat 6), sanitary ware and tiles. We don't have as many m2 as you.

I may pop by and have a nose! wink
It's pretty easy to find wink

The vendor seems quite sensible with regards to costed items like tiles, switches, bathroom stuff etc. as this certainly ain't his first rodeo. Dual cat6 and sat to each room is already in the cahier des charges, tiles are nominally €60/m2 which seems reasonable when looking at stuff available at Bati C, Hornbach etc., and a budget for sanitary ware that doesn't seem drastically stingy.

I fully expect to look back on this post and laugh at my naïveté laugh

felixgogo

155 posts

166 months

Monday 8th July 2019
quotequote all
Wow - thats a lovely house - and so much potential.

I have one thought - it's a shame the main living area is cramped up on the ground floor. If it were mine, I'd look to alter the layout significantly:

Ground Floor - Garage, Workshop, Utility Room, Guest Bedroom with en suite, turning staircase around light well.
First Floor - - Main Living Accommodation, Living room, Dining, Kitchen, Study
Second Floor - Bedrooms, 3 all en-suite

Yes you'd lose that massive master bedroom, but gain a wonderful living area.

CharlesdeGaulle

26,091 posts

179 months

Monday 8th July 2019
quotequote all
The post above mine is an interesting one. If you do have the option to redesign, having the terrace outside your living space would probably see it get more use than it being outside your bedroom. If you're having friends around for drinks, accessing your only outside space via your bedroom is a bit clumsy.

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Monday 8th July 2019
quotequote all
felixgogo said:
Wow - thats a lovely house - and so much potential.

I have one thought - it's a shame the main living area is cramped up on the ground floor. If it were mine, I'd look to alter the layout significantly:

Ground Floor - Garage, Workshop, Utility Room, Guest Bedroom with en suite, turning staircase around light well.
First Floor - - Main Living Accommodation, Living room, Dining, Kitchen, Study
Second Floor - Bedrooms, 3 all en-suite

Yes you'd lose that massive master bedroom, but gain a wonderful living area.
While more radical reconfiguration is certainly possible at this stage it would be €€€ to make those kind of changes, and that's just too much for us considering the payoff. We actually wanted a living room layout like this anyway as it is similar in size and shape to the place we already have and we have furniture to fit/fill it.

It certainly isn't cramped downstairs though, the space available is pretty much what the LABC reckons the average 3-bed house offers in the UK!. The kitchen isn't huge but again is very similar to what we have already and that's never felt too small.

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Monday 8th July 2019
quotequote all
CharlesdeGaulle said:
The post above mine is an interesting one. If you do have the option to redesign, having the terrace outside your living space would probably see it get more use than it being outside your bedroom. If you're having friends around for drinks, accessing your only outside space via your bedroom is a bit clumsy.
There is a separate door to the terrace from the hallway too so you don't need to go through the bedroom to access it, but yeah, it is something we've had to come to terms with, as is the lack of a loo downstairs (hark at me, when I wer't lad we only had one loo and it was always upstairs!).

At the end of the day the terrace is a 6-8 months of the year thing, and 95% of the time it's in use it's just us so it's a compromise we can put up with. We have friends with a duplex apartment where their balcony is 'up the stairs' and that seems to work just fine, even for parties.

RC1807

12,482 posts

167 months

Monday 8th July 2019
quotequote all
loudlashadjuster said:
RC1807 said:
Happy to follow your build too!

IIRC, we spent quite a lot more on cabling (electric, satellite and Cat 6), sanitary ware and tiles. We don't have as many m2 as you.

I may pop by and have a nose! wink
It's pretty easy to find wink

The vendor seems quite sensible with regards to costed items like tiles, switches, bathroom stuff etc. as this certainly ain't his first rodeo. Dual cat6 and sat to each room is already in the cahier des charges, tiles are nominally €60/m2 which seems reasonable when looking at stuff available at Bati C, Hornbach etc., and a budget for sanitary ware that doesn't seem drastically stingy.

I fully expect to look back on this post and laugh at my naïveté laugh
Cahier des charges: inc CAT6 & satellite cabling, that's a major additional expense there, so good they're included!
Tiling: €60m2 is very good, but PLEASE check with the supplier what size tiles that includes. We wanted 60x60 but the deal the tiling co. had with the constructor had a max size in the m2 price, so 60cm * 60cm was "extra", for example, so we changed our choice a bit.

And, yeah. Canach isn't that big so I'd find it laugh ... I used to play at Kikuoka and I've lived all over in the 21 years here. smile

GOOD LUCK!

CharlesdeGaulle

26,091 posts

179 months

Monday 8th July 2019
quotequote all
loudlashadjuster said:
There is a separate door to the terrace from the hallway too so you don't need to go through the bedroom to access it, but yeah, it is something we've had to come to terms with, as is the lack of a loo downstairs (hark at me, when I wer't lad we only had one loo and it was always upstairs!).

At the end of the day the terrace is a 6-8 months of the year thing, and 95% of the time it's in use it's just us so it's a compromise we can put up with. We have friends with a duplex apartment where their balcony is 'up the stairs' and that seems to work just fine, even for parties.
Good point, I hadn't noticed the second door on to the terrace. It'll be a compromise, yes, but I'm sure it won't be an issue.

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
Got hold of the current plans as it is being built. The main changes are relocating the WCs to make better use of the space for the 4th bedroom and utility room, and to the MBR en-suite to give us a separate space for a dressing room or office (debate still ongoing!).






loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Saturday 10th August 2019
quotequote all
Bank stuff all done, deposit paid eek and notary on Monday.

And today I appear to have bought a kitchen. Bit of a bizarre process, the designer was excellent and all he wanted was the plans and some ideas on layout and colours. He did this thing and we went back a week later to view his options.

His views chimed very much with ours so there was only a bit of decision making with finishes and worktops, amending the appliances and boom, it was pretty much there. I’ve honestly spent more time picking a sandwich in Subway!

Anyway, bit of haggling on the price and we shook on it. Slightly over our original budget (isn’t it always?) but only a few €k and we upgraded the worktop to granite, added the wine fridge and upped the appliance specs a bit so I don’t feel it was excessive.

Best thing is that we can tell the other kitchen places we were dealing with to take a running jump. Really was not enjoying speaking to the others as they all seemed less interested.


RC1807

12,482 posts

167 months

Sunday 11th August 2019
quotequote all
Congratulations - Notary is EASY, apart from the bank handing over a massive cheque, and there begins your mortgage, although NOT your time to start repaying!

From the amended plans, you don’t have a toilet in your en-suite. Is that intentional?

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Sunday 11th August 2019
quotequote all
That's just the architect's random placement of stuff, we're still deciding on the exact layout of sinks etc.

We might end up with something like that configuration though, it's similar to what we have in our rental and it's never been an issue.

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Saturday 31st August 2019
quotequote all
Had the first meeting with the project manager on-site yesterday, sorted a few things out.

Firstly, after going a first draft of the sanitary layouts last week we weren't really happy with the bathroom. Frankly, it is a bit small and an awkward shape to fit in a decent shower, bath and full-size sink but we had a compromise provisionally agreed.

After viewing the rooms again though we figured that the bath would be much better in the upstairs bathroom as the ceiling slope won't be an issue, especially as there is a velux window above where the bath would sit. That means we can have a much nicer shower downstairs and a decent double sink without it being cramped.

We're also going to shift the door into the en-suite to the right 20-30cm so we can get a toilet in there. Mrs LLA made the call after considering having to share the hall one with her mother-in-law!

Agreed that they'll use flooring timber above the kids' bedrooms to make a loft. They can't floor it for us as apparently it would mean the house would be a 3½ floor build and not as permitted, but nothing stops them putting in the appropriate beams and hatch to allow us to stick in a ladder and floor it ourselves once it's been handed over. Bureaucracy, eh?



It won't be huge, maybe 1.6m at the crown, but it'll give us a bit extra storage for spare linen, xmas decs etc. that would otherwise be in the garage or scattered about cupboards

Bit of bureaucratic bad news about the heat pump too; apparently running the system in reverse during the summer isn't permitted by law in Lux as it would breach the current passive house regs so they can't configure it like that for me. It may be that I can reprogram it myself, or the system might need different firmware from France or somewhere it is allowed. He says they are hopeful the law will be changed to allow this in future, but it's unlikely to be in time to help us.

Should be picking tiles and doing the first electrical layouts in the next couple of weeks, as well as going back to Trier to revise the bathrooms with the supplier.

RC1807

12,482 posts

167 months

Saturday 31st August 2019
quotequote all
If you need a hand with anything, let me know.... I'm winding down to gardening leave smile

loudlashadjuster

Original Poster:

5,082 posts

183 months

Saturday 31st August 2019
quotequote all
RC1807 said:
If you need a hand with anything, let me know.... I'm winding down to gardening leave smile
Ooh, lucky boy. How long have you got?