Do I need a Quantity Surveyor?
Discussion
I will be building a house and I'm struggling to understand what value a QS brings. I know they do the cost estimate, but trawling self-build forums, it is just as likely they'll mis-estimate as be spot on. And builders will just quote what they quote regardless. It's counterintuitive to spend more money just for an informational estimate. I've spoken to a couple of QSes and they were reluctant to link their output to real money savings - they position it more as providing a framework and maybe clarity.
Do I need a QS? Do most self-builds use one?
Do I need a QS? Do most self-builds use one?
Depends how your are building. We have one and it has saved us a lot of money.
We had a cost plan of the build (quite detailed) so we could then analise the different builders than tendered for the project. In our case there was a discrepancy of £450k between quotes and we managed to take another £250k out as it was overpriced. The QS managed to do this for us with our imput as well.
If you are doing some work yourself and managing subbies than perhaps the value is not as much. For us, building trade is not our job so we enlisted one not only to cost but also to discuss some details of building a house, "building speak" so builders would not take advantage of our lack of knowledge on building but also on the process of building. Main contractor I would recommend one, self build and smaller project probably not.
We had a cost plan of the build (quite detailed) so we could then analise the different builders than tendered for the project. In our case there was a discrepancy of £450k between quotes and we managed to take another £250k out as it was overpriced. The QS managed to do this for us with our imput as well.
If you are doing some work yourself and managing subbies than perhaps the value is not as much. For us, building trade is not our job so we enlisted one not only to cost but also to discuss some details of building a house, "building speak" so builders would not take advantage of our lack of knowledge on building but also on the process of building. Main contractor I would recommend one, self build and smaller project probably not.
CrgT16 said:
In our case there was a discrepancy of £450k between quotes and we managed to take another £250k out as it was overpriced. The QS managed to do this for us with our imput as well.
We will use a main contractor.Are you saying the builder gave you a quote, you showed them the QS's estimate and then the builder cut his quote to match, is that how it works? DId the builder misunderstand the requirements first time around? Assuming you had multiple quotes, would that not lead to a 'right' price regardless of QS?
Thank you.
I am saying the QS wrote, along with architect a bill of quantities (50 plus pages worth) of the spec of out build, this set the extac materials, quantities, etc
This tender document was then sent to 4 building contractrors and they were given 4-5 weeks to fill it in, it is quite comprehensive so you can compare like for like, for example the mechanical & electrical was designed and specced so all had to tender for the same thing exactly. There was a discrepancy of 450k between cheapest and most expensive! For the exact same thing!
We then selected the 2 best value and analysed their tenders and had meetings with them with the QS in attendance, we managed to know another 200-250k from the contractor we selected and not changed our build but tweaked some spec and discussed with builder some more cost effective alternatives without changing the architectural or SAP performance of the house.
Like I said, depends what you are building... if it's bog standard box than maybe not worth it if higher spec, say stone, timber windows, and more architectural features I would say it is a must.
This tender document was then sent to 4 building contractrors and they were given 4-5 weeks to fill it in, it is quite comprehensive so you can compare like for like, for example the mechanical & electrical was designed and specced so all had to tender for the same thing exactly. There was a discrepancy of 450k between cheapest and most expensive! For the exact same thing!
We then selected the 2 best value and analysed their tenders and had meetings with them with the QS in attendance, we managed to know another 200-250k from the contractor we selected and not changed our build but tweaked some spec and discussed with builder some more cost effective alternatives without changing the architectural or SAP performance of the house.
Like I said, depends what you are building... if it's bog standard box than maybe not worth it if higher spec, say stone, timber windows, and more architectural features I would say it is a must.
Multiple quotes will lead to a right price but that price needs (always) to be negoatiated and can be negotiated down. For example our selected contractor was good on most things but compared to other tenders was £30k more on the M&E... on the couple of meetings we hat to discuss his numbers we said other tenders were 30k cheaper on that item so asked if he could look at his numbers or get other subbies to quote.... he did and matched it. Just an example.
What the QS does is that will look at the number provided and compare it to his expected number and will say: it's too much, it's about right. He knows, it's like actuaries but for building. Lots of little costs add up to the savings in the 50 odd pages we brought down a total of £200k down... it's money! it was a grand here and a grand there but adds up to a lot. We could perhaps had negotiated some of it alone but lots of pricing we didn't know the true cost so it was hard to do it alone.
What the QS does is that will look at the number provided and compare it to his expected number and will say: it's too much, it's about right. He knows, it's like actuaries but for building. Lots of little costs add up to the savings in the 50 odd pages we brought down a total of £200k down... it's money! it was a grand here and a grand there but adds up to a lot. We could perhaps had negotiated some of it alone but lots of pricing we didn't know the true cost so it was hard to do it alone.
jules_s said:
If the budget is what it sounds like - you might consider a PM/QS
Yes although it was hard enough getting quotes from QSes just for the QSing part. A PM at some point would be good - right now it's me pushing things from one stage to the next and since I don't really know what's meant to happen, I just make noises at everyone and hope something happens.No problem with finding contractors to tender for our build we contacted 6 and gave tender documents to 4. They went through a pre assessment that included financial and accounts disclosure, references, etc.
Like I said depends on the build Forbes it was necessary to do all this checks as it’s a big financial commitment and our building had a lot or architectural features so we needed the right experience, etc. Not needed for a more basic build granted but for us the process was quite straightforward.
Don’t understand why some people think it’s odd to have this tender process/analysis. Sounds sensible before parting with my money. The contractors we dealt with were all used to this and to the negotiation. It wasn’t a back of a fag packet exercise...
Anyway I recommend for some builds, for ours was worth it but for simpler ones maybe not or if you are experienced in self build. We are not builders so needed an impartial professional guide on the process.
Like I said depends on the build Forbes it was necessary to do all this checks as it’s a big financial commitment and our building had a lot or architectural features so we needed the right experience, etc. Not needed for a more basic build granted but for us the process was quite straightforward.
Don’t understand why some people think it’s odd to have this tender process/analysis. Sounds sensible before parting with my money. The contractors we dealt with were all used to this and to the negotiation. It wasn’t a back of a fag packet exercise...
Anyway I recommend for some builds, for ours was worth it but for simpler ones maybe not or if you are experienced in self build. We are not builders so needed an impartial professional guide on the process.
jules_s said:
MikeStroud said:
Surprised you managed to find any builders with your very unique way of assessing them.
Far from unique given the value - or the need for a QSSurely I am not the only one to find analising building contractors a strange way of assessing them? You and CrtG16 do so each to their own I guess !
MikeStroud said:
jules_s said:
MikeStroud said:
Surprised you managed to find any builders with your very unique way of assessing them.
Far from unique given the value - or the need for a QSSurely I am not the only one to find analising building contractors a strange way of assessing them? You and CrtG16 do so each to their own I guess !
It shows you are dealing with quality. Always makes a project flow.
MikeStroud said:
But surely he'd have been analysing them rather than analising them?
Surely I am not the only one to find analising building contractors a strange way of assessing them? You and CrtG16 do so each to their own I guess !
Surely I am not the only one to find analising building contractors a strange way of assessing them? You and CrtG16 do so each to their own I guess !
I tend to read the content on this sort of thread not the shpelling
Aluminati said:
MikeStroud said:
jules_s said:
MikeStroud said:
Surprised you managed to find any builders with your very unique way of assessing them.
Far from unique given the value - or the need for a QSSurely I am not the only one to find analising building contractors a strange way of assessing them? You and CrtG16 do so each to their own I guess !
It shows you are dealing with quality. Always makes a project flow.
Sorry OP I hijacked your thread with a silly point about spelling.
I’m with you Mike, a few parrots required.
OP, I’m in the middle of a relatively humble extension... we did not use a QS and we have had a few surprises. I think involving a good QS would have reduced those by bridging the gap between the impractical architects and the builders who don’t like looking at drawings.
The annoying thing is that everyone in the trade from architect to joiner to builder and probably QS seem to be Teflon coated. Unless you want them to walk away and leave you with half a house you’ll end up paying for the work that is done regardless.
OP, I’m in the middle of a relatively humble extension... we did not use a QS and we have had a few surprises. I think involving a good QS would have reduced those by bridging the gap between the impractical architects and the builders who don’t like looking at drawings.
The annoying thing is that everyone in the trade from architect to joiner to builder and probably QS seem to be Teflon coated. Unless you want them to walk away and leave you with half a house you’ll end up paying for the work that is done regardless.
Get Stephen Fry in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnPy9inVnqg
No, I don't have anything useful to add to this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnPy9inVnqg
No, I don't have anything useful to add to this thread.
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