The end of the cosy open fire?

The end of the cosy open fire?

Author
Discussion

Cotty

39,390 posts

283 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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What will happen to the old country pubs with an open fire. Will they not be able to light them eventually.

156651

11,574 posts

84 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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Would this news put you off installing a wood burner? We will be in a smoke free zone, but had planned to install one of the DEFRA approved ones to burn smokeless fuel.

mike_knott

339 posts

223 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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otolith said:
It is with respect to the chimney emissions. How much carbon is emitted in getting it from the forest to the fireplace is another matter, but then that applies to everything.
I thought 'carbon neutral' referred to net carbon *dioxide* emissions. Burning wood would therefore be a horrendous contributor as you are converting elemental carbon into carbon dioxide.

Mike...

opieoilman

4,408 posts

235 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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We've got planning to build a house, with a chimney for a woodburner. Due to my brother not getting planning on his piece of land, we've having to put 2 houses on the same plot, so have to re do the planning. Yay. Based on this, is there any point in getting a chimney and woodburner? We're having ground source heat pumps and underfloor heating, but thought the wood fire would be a good back up on really cold days/power cuts.

Also, what concerns me more is charcoal. Is the sale of charcoal going to be banned at some point? I do not want a gas grill in the garden, that's not a bbq.

JagLover

42,268 posts

234 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Apparently they produce 38% of damaging particulates UK wide so yes you cant have a clean air strategy without including wood burners.

If this all results in less stretches of road having reduced speed limits due to local air quality issues it might even benefit us all.

Wozy68

5,387 posts

169 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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What percentage of people actually burn wet wood .... even the garage type bags arnt unseasoned.

So only able to buy seasoned or kiln dried logs?
Seasoned yup ... kiln dried .... what energy is used to dry wood in a kiln ... ?

So you use energy to kiln wood so that it burns more efficiently (and quicker as you use more because it’s drier) so more is required to be shipped so the transport carbon foootprint is even greater.

What percentage also say compared to 60 years ago is smoke up the chimney from natural coal...... <5%?. Let’s switch off all the office lights at night first (that seem to be left on overnight in every office block)

Madness

Cotty

39,390 posts

283 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Wozy68 said:
What percentage also say compared to 60 years ago is smoke up the chimney from natural coal...... <5%?. Let’s switch off all the office lights at night first (that seem to be left on overnight in every office block)
Most if not all the offices I have worked in have motion sensor lights. When everyone leaves they go out.

Milkbuttons

1,293 posts

161 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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I don't really see an issue here, you should be burning seasoned wood anyway for the health of your chimney if any thing

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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mike_knott said:
I thought 'carbon neutral' referred to net carbon *dioxide* emissions. Burning wood would therefore be a horrendous contributor as you are converting elemental carbon into carbon dioxide.
But that elemental carbon has been created by trees absorbing carbon dioxide and splitting it into carbon (wood) and oxygen (which they dump back into the atmosphere). That's what plants do.

So you're only putting back the carbon dioxide that was absorbed by the trees very recently. It's a 'sustainable', cycle that's short-term enough not to have any net influence on the global climate.

By comparison, burning fossil fuels means that within the blink of an eye (in terms of geological timescales) we're dumping all the CO2 that was absorbed by prehistoric vegetation back into the atmosphere all at once, and even if they were allowed to do so, it would take the planet's ecosystems geological timescales to absorb it all back again.

Google 'Gaia hypothesis' and 'Daisyworld' (effectively its mathematical simulation/proof)... it's a fascinating mechanism.

156651

11,574 posts

84 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Wozy68 said:
What percentage of people actually burn wet wood .... even the garage type bags arnt unseasoned.

So only able to buy seasoned or kiln dried logs?
Seasoned yup ... kiln dried .... what energy is used to dry wood in a kiln ... ?

So you use energy to kiln wood so that it burns more efficiently (and quicker as you use more because it’s drier) so more is required to be shipped so the transport carbon foootprint is even greater.

What percentage also say compared to 60 years ago is smoke up the chimney from natural coal...... <5%?. Let’s switch off all the office lights at night first (that seem to be left on overnight in every office block)

Madness
It isn't about global warming and emissions but local air quality and particulates.

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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opieoilman said:
...s there any point in getting a chimney and woodburner? We're having ground source heat pumps and underfloor heating, but thought the wood fire would be a good back up on really cold days/power cuts.
That's fine and sensible.

In addition to providing backup (and a focal point), heat pumps aren't good at responding to rapid changes in demand, so a secondary heating system like a wood-burner can be good if you decide it's just gone chilly all of a sudden.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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mike_knott said:
otolith said:
It is with respect to the chimney emissions. How much carbon is emitted in getting it from the forest to the fireplace is another matter, but then that applies to everything.
I thought 'carbon neutral' referred to net carbon *dioxide* emissions. Burning wood would therefore be a horrendous contributor as you are converting elemental carbon into carbon dioxide.
Carbon neutral means that the carbon you are releasing was recently captured from the atmosphere, and was not fossilised hundreds of millions of years ago.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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Depends on the wood and the forestry cycle. Years, as little as 2-3, decades at the most.

garagewidow

1,502 posts

169 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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rovermorris999 said:
I wonder what's next on the list of things to ban or tax?
Volcanoes.



Probably.

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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[redacted]

rxe

6,700 posts

102 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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troika said:
Exactly. I run the whole house on wood, which I source from my own land. Nearest neighbour a mile away. How long before some bellend with a clipboard pays me a visit to check the moisture content of what I’m burning and fine me if it’s over 20% (not that it is)?
Ditto. They will have to pry my chainsaw from my cold dead hands.

Castrol for a knave

4,640 posts

90 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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Anyone who knows a wood burner will not be burning wet wood.

I suspect this is aimed at Toby and Chlamydia, who have one in their Pimlico townhouse or ranch style new build in Four Oaks.

dickymint

24,101 posts

257 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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[redacted]

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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[redacted]

ZymoTech

169 posts

70 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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The government's aim to improve local air quality is all very laudable but beware of the law of unintended consequences. In the heritage world where I'm from (I volunteer at the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway) the proposal is being viewed with a great deal of concern. All the heritage railways and everyone who owns a traction engine (be it a working miniature or full-scale), a steam lorry or a steam boat, stationary engine or other machine relies on the domestic solid fuel distribution network to get their coal. Quite what shape that network will look like post-2023 and quite what sort of coal substitutes will be available, and for how much, is anyone's guess.

HMG is being very devious: "No, no, old boy, we're not saying you can't run your steam engines anymore, We're not banning you from using them. It's just that we're going to make it very hard and extremely difficult for you to get the coal so you might as well give up and scrap them now".