Anyone dealt with asbestos?
Discussion
geeks said:
We have a bungalow so a larger footprint (I think it is aprox 90sqm) chap was in and out in under 2 days. Day 1 was encapsulate and remove and then day 2 was clean up and make safe
Ok that's good to know....I'd imagine that 2 day's work can't be THAT pricey, even if he is working with asbestos, right? Or am I being naive? UTH said:
geeks said:
We have a bungalow so a larger footprint (I think it is aprox 90sqm) chap was in and out in under 2 days. Day 1 was encapsulate and remove and then day 2 was clean up and make safe
Ok that's good to know....I'd imagine that 2 day's work can't be THAT pricey, even if he is working with asbestos, right? Or am I being naive? geeks said:
flooring is alot simpler than plasterboard or that old awful roofing.
By plasterboard you mean asbestos insulation board 
regular plasterboard shouldn't contain asbestos. Admittedly it looks kind of similar, and it can be found in the strangest of places (unfortunately it was often used as a general purpose building board in the 50s-80s).The roofing if the cement sheet stuff is actually pretty low risk and easily dealt with.
Ynox said:
geeks said:
flooring is alot simpler than plasterboard or that old awful roofing.
By plasterboard you mean asbestos insulation board regular plasterboard shouldn't contain asbestos. Admittedly it looks kind of similar, and it can be found in the strangest of places (unfortunately it was often used as a general purpose building board in the 50s-80s).The roofing if the cement sheet stuff is actually pretty low risk and easily dealt with.
(useful info!)
Ynox said:
Disclaimer first - I know a reasonable amount about it (and did work for an asbestos consultancy a few years ago, but I wrote their analysis software) but I'm not a pro.
I'm pretty sure Marley tiles aren't notifiable and are pretty low risk (the thermoplastic tiles and bitumen adhesive can contain Chrysotile - 'white' asbestos). If you are going to remove them yourself you'd want an FFP3 mask and to take relevant precautions (e.g. think about hiring a H vac for the clean up). Personally, and I've got some on the ground floor of my house - I left them in situ.
Artex ceilings are usually a pretty low percentage of Chrysotile also depending on the age. Most plasterers seem to just skim them.
As a home owner, the stuff I'd personally be wary of is AIB (to be honest - be wary of ALL asbestos, but definitely this). This stuff is nasty - can contain blue / brown asbestos. Usually safe to leave in place depending though.
Ultimately if in doubt, get a survey done.
My attached garage ceiling has what I think is plasterboard, white plaster in between paperback, if I was too take a photo would you be able to give your opinion?I'm pretty sure Marley tiles aren't notifiable and are pretty low risk (the thermoplastic tiles and bitumen adhesive can contain Chrysotile - 'white' asbestos). If you are going to remove them yourself you'd want an FFP3 mask and to take relevant precautions (e.g. think about hiring a H vac for the clean up). Personally, and I've got some on the ground floor of my house - I left them in situ.
Artex ceilings are usually a pretty low percentage of Chrysotile also depending on the age. Most plasterers seem to just skim them.
As a home owner, the stuff I'd personally be wary of is AIB (to be honest - be wary of ALL asbestos, but definitely this). This stuff is nasty - can contain blue / brown asbestos. Usually safe to leave in place depending though.
Ultimately if in doubt, get a survey done.
Edited by Ynox on Wednesday 14th October 13:20
I know it’s best to have it sampled but might be a case of “yep that’s plasterboard”
usn90 said:
My attached garage ceiling has what I think is plasterboard, white plaster in between paperback, if I was too take a photo would you be able to give your opinion?
I know it’s best to have it sampled but might be a case of “yep that’s plasterboard”
Disclaimer - I'm not a surveyor.I know it’s best to have it sampled but might be a case of “yep that’s plasterboard”
But, an attached garage ceiling has a pretty strong chance of being AIB for fire proofing purposes. Ultimately you don't know without getting it sampled, but depending on the age of the property (built before '99 generally) I'd proceed as if it's asbestos.
Got my survey results back.
It looks like every area they tested has come back positive for Chrysotile, including the sample of tiles they took from under the ground floor carpets.
The ceilings through the house I'm not overly surprised by so I can't be too disappointed, but the fact the tiles/adhesive have come back positive I must say is disappointing, as I was planning on taking up the whole ground floor, putting UFH in etc......but this removal of the tiles and so on will need to be done professionally......I'm worried this will put my whole ground floor plan out of reach.
Waiting for a call from the asbestos company to discuss removal options.
It looks like every area they tested has come back positive for Chrysotile, including the sample of tiles they took from under the ground floor carpets.
The ceilings through the house I'm not overly surprised by so I can't be too disappointed, but the fact the tiles/adhesive have come back positive I must say is disappointing, as I was planning on taking up the whole ground floor, putting UFH in etc......but this removal of the tiles and so on will need to be done professionally......I'm worried this will put my whole ground floor plan out of reach.
Waiting for a call from the asbestos company to discuss removal options.
mhocking said:
We're in the same position & I'm just waiting for the test results back on the vinyl tiles and bitumen/mastic adhesive. Our house is early/mid 80's where it was still used albeit more uncommon.
If confirmed, lifting the tiles should be easy with minimal dust. They can then be double bagged and taken to the local recycling centre for a charge. I'll probably just use some latex self levelling compound over the dried adhesive rather than dig it out as that would create significant mess. A number of products seem to be available that are suitable for laying over adhesive.
We had out artex ceilings just primed with PVA then skimmed. Didn't both testing them as skimming seemed to be the best solution.
Do you mind sharing some links to the products you've found which can be laid over adhesive? Need to do something similar myself in due course.If confirmed, lifting the tiles should be easy with minimal dust. They can then be double bagged and taken to the local recycling centre for a charge. I'll probably just use some latex self levelling compound over the dried adhesive rather than dig it out as that would create significant mess. A number of products seem to be available that are suitable for laying over adhesive.
We had out artex ceilings just primed with PVA then skimmed. Didn't both testing them as skimming seemed to be the best solution.
usn90 said:
My attached garage ceiling has what I think is plasterboard, white plaster in between paperback, if I was too take a photo would you be able to give your opinion?
I know it’s best to have it sampled but might be a case of “yep that’s plasterboard”
Gypsum encased in paper would indicate plasterboard, however, if it is Asbestolux/AIB it will need removing under fully controlled conditions by an licensed company, which is not cheap.I know it’s best to have it sampled but might be a case of “yep that’s plasterboard”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_insulating_...
We had asbestos tiles in a upstairs bathroom (I sent a sample off to a lab to test it).
The area was circa 3 sq m and the tiles were stuck down on wooden floorboards.
They took about half a day to get them off. I think it cost about £250 / £300 ish including disposal etc.
From my perspective at that amount, it just wasn’t worth not removing them, or running the risk of doing it myself. I now have proof that the asbestos was professionally removed, which lets me sleep easier at night.
Lots of the time spent was the initial setting up / sealing off etc, which only has to be done once (so there should be economies of scale for doing a larger area)
However, I can’t see it being particularly “cheap” for you to get the professionals in to clear a large area.
The area was circa 3 sq m and the tiles were stuck down on wooden floorboards.
They took about half a day to get them off. I think it cost about £250 / £300 ish including disposal etc.
From my perspective at that amount, it just wasn’t worth not removing them, or running the risk of doing it myself. I now have proof that the asbestos was professionally removed, which lets me sleep easier at night.
Lots of the time spent was the initial setting up / sealing off etc, which only has to be done once (so there should be economies of scale for doing a larger area)
However, I can’t see it being particularly “cheap” for you to get the professionals in to clear a large area.
I’ve witnessed a man die a slow and painful death from asbestosis. It’s not something to take lightly.
Having said that, if you treat it with respect and have the right people carry out the necessary work you’ll stand the best chance of having no problems in the future.
There is plenty of guidance on the HSE website about removal, from the stuff you can do yourself to the stuff that needs professional input.
Do not seek to do it cheaply by the local guy who has a “special” Henry hoover and a 99p mask on. Check for all the relevant insurances and certificates.....it becomes very expensive for a business if they do a job and someone ends up becoming affected after they’ve signed it off.
The last removal job I was part of cost £60,000 so anything less than that is a bargain!
Having said that, if you treat it with respect and have the right people carry out the necessary work you’ll stand the best chance of having no problems in the future.
There is plenty of guidance on the HSE website about removal, from the stuff you can do yourself to the stuff that needs professional input.
Do not seek to do it cheaply by the local guy who has a “special” Henry hoover and a 99p mask on. Check for all the relevant insurances and certificates.....it becomes very expensive for a business if they do a job and someone ends up becoming affected after they’ve signed it off.
The last removal job I was part of cost £60,000 so anything less than that is a bargain!
Having spoken at length to the chap who works at the surveying company, there are of course options as to how I move forward.
For the ceiling work I want to do (mainly just going to be drilling holes for spotlights) I think I'll get my electrician to mark out exactly where everything needs drilling, then getting the asbestos company to do the actual drilling. There's nothing that says I have to remove it, but any work that does touch it and could potentially release it into the air should really be done by a qualified person. (It can of course be done by a cowboy, or yourself even, with facemask etc, but that's obviously not recommended!)
For the tiles, I think I'm going to leave them where they are and lay Fermacell over the top which the UFH company can cut into and lay the pipes. I think this is going to be much cheaper than paying someone qualified to remove all of the tiles (which will still leave a small amount of the bitumen the tiles are stuck to) then laying screed over the top.
Only problem with this route with the floor is that obviously the asbestos is still there; it's pretty much completely safe left alone, especially with another layer of 'stuff' over the top, but I won't have that ideal peace of mind knowing it has all been removed.
For the ceiling work I want to do (mainly just going to be drilling holes for spotlights) I think I'll get my electrician to mark out exactly where everything needs drilling, then getting the asbestos company to do the actual drilling. There's nothing that says I have to remove it, but any work that does touch it and could potentially release it into the air should really be done by a qualified person. (It can of course be done by a cowboy, or yourself even, with facemask etc, but that's obviously not recommended!)
For the tiles, I think I'm going to leave them where they are and lay Fermacell over the top which the UFH company can cut into and lay the pipes. I think this is going to be much cheaper than paying someone qualified to remove all of the tiles (which will still leave a small amount of the bitumen the tiles are stuck to) then laying screed over the top.
Only problem with this route with the floor is that obviously the asbestos is still there; it's pretty much completely safe left alone, especially with another layer of 'stuff' over the top, but I won't have that ideal peace of mind knowing it has all been removed.
UTH said:
For the tiles, I think I'm going to leave them where they are and lay Fermacell over the top which the UFH company can cut into and lay the pipes. I think this is going to be much cheaper than paying someone qualified to remove all of the tiles (which will still leave a small amount of the bitumen the tiles are stuck to) then laying screed over the top.
If you're leaving the tiles in situ you're going to be raising the floor regardless so you may as well go for a proper overfloor UFH solution like Polypipe or Wunda rather than put down plain boards then get JK to cut into them which I assume is what you're thinking there?I had asbestos artex ceilings ripped out after a leak that ruined both first and ground floor ceilings in half the house.
No idea of the cost (insurance paid) but the ceilings were gone within a day and replaced within two and decorated as new in less than a week start to finish of the whole job. This was a 3 bed house. Granted I didn't have a lot of furniture and lived in one room for the week which probably helped the trades just crack on but glad I did it.
No idea of the cost (insurance paid) but the ceilings were gone within a day and replaced within two and decorated as new in less than a week start to finish of the whole job. This was a 3 bed house. Granted I didn't have a lot of furniture and lived in one room for the week which probably helped the trades just crack on but glad I did it.
LocoBlade said:
UTH said:
For the tiles, I think I'm going to leave them where they are and lay Fermacell over the top which the UFH company can cut into and lay the pipes. I think this is going to be much cheaper than paying someone qualified to remove all of the tiles (which will still leave a small amount of the bitumen the tiles are stuck to) then laying screed over the top.
If you're leaving the tiles in situ you're going to be raising the floor regardless so you may as well go for a proper overfloor UFH solution like Polypipe or Wunda rather than put down plain boards then get JK to cut into them which I assume is what you're thinking there?I was under the impression that the JK solution was still going to be much cheaper even with the boards than the proper overfloor option......but then maybe I'm wrong? A quick rough estimate would suggest I'm adding maybe £2k to the cost by using the JK board option, putting me at maybe £5k-£6k for JK with the boards.....
I think I'm still keen to avoid getting screed etc put down, hence the board option still sounding good, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree?
I'll spend some time looking at Wunda tomorrow.
ETA: Just seen, this is probably what you're advising me to look at? Looking interesting..... https://www.wundagroup.com/underfloor-heating/wund...
Edited by UTH on Tuesday 20th October 20:37
I had Marley tiles taken up from our hallway (60s bungalow) in order to lay LVT. I had had some testing done a few years before - in some rooms the tiles were asbestos containing and in some it didn’t.
We were having a whole load of renovation and building work done and rather than wait for another test we assumed it did contain asbestos. The area is about 15sqm and cost was no more than £500 3 years ago. NW England. Other rooms the tiles have been carpeted over and left alone.
The 24sqm integral garage ceiling (all confirmed as AIB) I had done in readiness for the building work cost the best part of £3k....
@ OP - for all the cost you’re going to I’d get the tiles taken up by a pro so you can have the best finished floor at the end.
We were having a whole load of renovation and building work done and rather than wait for another test we assumed it did contain asbestos. The area is about 15sqm and cost was no more than £500 3 years ago. NW England. Other rooms the tiles have been carpeted over and left alone.
The 24sqm integral garage ceiling (all confirmed as AIB) I had done in readiness for the building work cost the best part of £3k....
@ OP - for all the cost you’re going to I’d get the tiles taken up by a pro so you can have the best finished floor at the end.
I'm probably looking at 55-70 sq m of downstairs tiles that would need taking up.
Without doing the accurate maths (still waiting on a quote for professional tile removal until I can do that) I just think the added cost of getting rid of these tiles properly will then push the UFH part of our renovation plan beyond what we can justify, given how much other stuff we have to do. As it stands I think we could justify it with one of the systems where you leave the tiles as they are, but we will do some more accurate maths once the quote comes in from the asbestos guys and see how the numbers look.
Without doing the accurate maths (still waiting on a quote for professional tile removal until I can do that) I just think the added cost of getting rid of these tiles properly will then push the UFH part of our renovation plan beyond what we can justify, given how much other stuff we have to do. As it stands I think we could justify it with one of the systems where you leave the tiles as they are, but we will do some more accurate maths once the quote comes in from the asbestos guys and see how the numbers look.
UTH said:
It is indeed what I was thinking.
I was under the impression that the JK solution was still going to be much cheaper even with the boards than the proper overfloor option......but then maybe I'm wrong? A quick rough estimate would suggest I'm adding maybe £2k to the cost by using the JK board option, putting me at maybe £5k-£6k for JK with the boards.....
I think I'm still keen to avoid getting screed etc put down, hence the board option still sounding good, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree?
I'll spend some time looking at Wunda tomorrow.
ETA: Just seen, this is probably what you're advising me to look at? Looking interesting..... https://www.wundagroup.com/underfloor-heating/wund...
Yep thats the kind of thing, they're insulated and designed to spread the heat a bit better than regular board would do and I'd have thought by the time you've bought board the overfloor solutions won't be too different in price and may be cheaper. Regarding screeding over top, I think they all need the pipes screeding in if laying LVT or carpet on top, including the JK solution. if tiling or solid floor then I dont think you need to screed with most of them.I was under the impression that the JK solution was still going to be much cheaper even with the boards than the proper overfloor option......but then maybe I'm wrong? A quick rough estimate would suggest I'm adding maybe £2k to the cost by using the JK board option, putting me at maybe £5k-£6k for JK with the boards.....
I think I'm still keen to avoid getting screed etc put down, hence the board option still sounding good, but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree?
I'll spend some time looking at Wunda tomorrow.
ETA: Just seen, this is probably what you're advising me to look at? Looking interesting..... https://www.wundagroup.com/underfloor-heating/wund...
Create an account on wundatrade.co.uk , I've just had a look and their 80m2 premium multi zone kit is under £2k for everything you'd need, boards, pipe, manifold, pump etc.
https://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/home/water-under...
Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 20th October 22:08
LocoBlade said:
Yep thats the kind of thing, they're insulated and designed to spread the heat a bit better than regular board would do and I'd have thought by the time you've bought board the overfloor solutions won't be too different in price and may be cheaper. Regarding screeding over top, I think they all need the pipes screeding in if laying LVT or carpet on top, including the JK solution. if tiling or solid floor then I dont think you need to screed with most of them.
Create an account on wundatrade.co.uk , I've just had a look and their 80m2 premium multi zone kit is under £2k for everything you'd need, boards, pipe, manifold, pump etc.
https://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/home/water-under...
Thanks mate, not sure I was aware of needing screed for the JK option so that could well swing my vote, as you’re right Wunda option is starting to look more cost effective. Create an account on wundatrade.co.uk , I've just had a look and their 80m2 premium multi zone kit is under £2k for everything you'd need, boards, pipe, manifold, pump etc.
https://www.wundatrade.co.uk/shop/home/water-under...
Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 20th October 22:08
When you say solid floor, does that include laminate and I think that’s what we’re leaning towards, even more so if screed isn’t required.
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