Boiler service - invoice has additional hourly rate?
Discussion
ST12AT said:
You normally post some fairly accurate stuff but this is absolute rubbish.
I have a contact for around 250 oil boiler services and they are priced at a set amount and time (£85+vat and 70 minutes that includes the nozzle). Vacuuming out the heat exchanger accounts for 15 minutes work. The secondary heat exchanger (condensing boilers) can take double that and there is pretty much no vacuuming involved in that!
Oil boilers that aren’t running correctly are massively problematic, a dodgy nozzle or an worn out oil pump will cause soot that even the most hardened of Northern miners would wince at. On top of that, oil leaks are not a cheap experience. I’ve been involved in two this year that have cost £60k+ to put right.
To add some further information to pricing/timings the above figure is based on boilers that I currently have on the books, new clients pay £145+vat to bring the boiler up to my standard (that includes nozzle, filters and long life hoses). There is also a clearly written disclaimer that says an additional cost will be added to the invoice if the boiler is excessively dirty or if it has been ‘adjusted’ by a third party (oil boiler owners love sticking screwdrivers into places they shouldn’t or pressing the reset button seven hundred and forty eight times).
In response to the original post it would appear that the additional charge is acceptable but only if there is evidence to say why. It would have been an easier pill to swallow if the engineer had said at the time of the service that some additional time would be needed because it’s really dirty this year. It does sound like they are trying it on, although it could be for a reason, so I would be polite and honest with them.
Lastly, try to organise the service for the summer months - all of our favourite service jobs happen to be when the sun is shining and if something went wrong you’re unlikely to be in a mess without a boiler when it’s -2!
It's very very far from "Absolute rubbish". Not everyone does pipework or boiler servicing to Aspergers standards.I have a contact for around 250 oil boiler services and they are priced at a set amount and time (£85+vat and 70 minutes that includes the nozzle). Vacuuming out the heat exchanger accounts for 15 minutes work. The secondary heat exchanger (condensing boilers) can take double that and there is pretty much no vacuuming involved in that!
Oil boilers that aren’t running correctly are massively problematic, a dodgy nozzle or an worn out oil pump will cause soot that even the most hardened of Northern miners would wince at. On top of that, oil leaks are not a cheap experience. I’ve been involved in two this year that have cost £60k+ to put right.
To add some further information to pricing/timings the above figure is based on boilers that I currently have on the books, new clients pay £145+vat to bring the boiler up to my standard (that includes nozzle, filters and long life hoses). There is also a clearly written disclaimer that says an additional cost will be added to the invoice if the boiler is excessively dirty or if it has been ‘adjusted’ by a third party (oil boiler owners love sticking screwdrivers into places they shouldn’t or pressing the reset button seven hundred and forty eight times).
In response to the original post it would appear that the additional charge is acceptable but only if there is evidence to say why. It would have been an easier pill to swallow if the engineer had said at the time of the service that some additional time would be needed because it’s really dirty this year. It does sound like they are trying it on, although it could be for a reason, so I would be polite and honest with them.
Lastly, try to organise the service for the summer months - all of our favourite service jobs happen to be when the sun is shining and if something went wrong you’re unlikely to be in a mess without a boiler when it’s -2!
I have a letting agreement in my hand from John Minnis, a large sales and rental agent, offering to have an oil boiler service carried out for £65 inc. VAT prior to the tenant moving in. £15 of that is kept by the agency, £50 goes to the plumber. I know that because I am often there when the service is done, and I actually know the plumber fairly often. Nozzles rarely changed because that costs money and hoovering doesn't.
Power NI, our biggest electricity provider, do oil boiler services for £55 inc. VAT. Currently suspended because of Covid.
Airtricity, the second biggest provider, also do a service for £55 inc. VAT as seen here - https://www.sseairtricity.com/uk/home/sse-airtrici...
Both include a nozzle change in that price "if necessary". You can guess how often that is actually done.
Like you, I have been OFTEC registered since before OFTEC registration was even a thing, back when anyone could stick their hand in the boiler and say it has been serviced. Most domestic services are carried out by either the big names, or the guy in the local rag offering services for £50. That fine publication, the "County Down Spectator", has four "engineers" advertising a service for £50 in the classifieds this week. They won't be doing much scraping of soot, and if a nozzle is really needed it will probably be a used one out of the van.
And again like you, I would like it if all boiler services were done to a high standard, but it just doesn't happen very often. You have a contract for 250 oil boilers. Northern Ireland has a hefty 70% of domestic properties burning oil rather than gas, which is around 540,000 boilers. Largely being serviced by people who want to stick a hoover in, possibly do a flue gas check after a nozzle change if there is black smoke billowing out the top, but otherwise leave things well alone and just write the cert. I do much the same to my boiler, but that's the old "mechanic's car is a scrapper" paradox for you.
I've been out of building services for a while now but that doesn't mean I don't know what happens or see what happens, and I see a lot of it. Your standards are admirable, but simply not applied by the majority.
guindilias said:
It's very very far from "Absolute rubbish". Not everyone does pipework or boiler servicing to Aspergers standards.
I have a letting agreement in my hand from John Minnis, a large sales and rental agent, offering to have an oil boiler service carried out for £65 inc. VAT prior to the tenant moving in. £15 of that is kept by the agency, £50 goes to the plumber. I know that because I am often there when the service is done, and I actually know the plumber fairly often. Nozzles rarely changed because that costs money and hoovering doesn't.
Power NI, our biggest electricity provider, do oil boiler services for £55 inc. VAT. Currently suspended because of Covid.
Airtricity, the second biggest provider, also do a service for £55 inc. VAT as seen here - https://www.sseairtricity.com/uk/home/sse-airtrici...
Both include a nozzle change in that price "if necessary". You can guess how often that is actually done.
Like you, I have been OFTEC registered since before OFTEC registration was even a thing, back when anyone could stick their hand in the boiler and say it has been serviced. Most domestic services are carried out by either the big names, or the guy in the local rag offering services for £50. That fine publication, the "County Down Spectator", has four "engineers" advertising a service for £50 in the classifieds this week. They won't be doing much scraping of soot, and if a nozzle is really needed it will probably be a used one out of the van.
And again like you, I would like it if all boiler services were done to a high standard, but it just doesn't happen very often. You have a contract for 250 oil boilers. Northern Ireland has a hefty 70% of domestic properties burning oil rather than gas, which is around 540,000 boilers. Largely being serviced by people who want to stick a hoover in, possibly do a flue gas check after a nozzle change if there is black smoke billowing out the top, but otherwise leave things well alone and just write the cert. I do much the same to my boiler, but that's the old "mechanic's car is a scrapper" paradox for you.
I've been out of building services for a while now but that doesn't mean I don't know what happens or see what happens, and I see a lot of it. Your standards are admirable, but simply not applied by the majority.
I wasn’t questioning the price but the idea of servicing taking place on a 2,3 or 5 year interval. I see that you are in Northern Ireland, my understanding of the servicing industry there is that the accepted standard is a quick hoover and that’s about it? I have a letting agreement in my hand from John Minnis, a large sales and rental agent, offering to have an oil boiler service carried out for £65 inc. VAT prior to the tenant moving in. £15 of that is kept by the agency, £50 goes to the plumber. I know that because I am often there when the service is done, and I actually know the plumber fairly often. Nozzles rarely changed because that costs money and hoovering doesn't.
Power NI, our biggest electricity provider, do oil boiler services for £55 inc. VAT. Currently suspended because of Covid.
Airtricity, the second biggest provider, also do a service for £55 inc. VAT as seen here - https://www.sseairtricity.com/uk/home/sse-airtrici...
Both include a nozzle change in that price "if necessary". You can guess how often that is actually done.
Like you, I have been OFTEC registered since before OFTEC registration was even a thing, back when anyone could stick their hand in the boiler and say it has been serviced. Most domestic services are carried out by either the big names, or the guy in the local rag offering services for £50. That fine publication, the "County Down Spectator", has four "engineers" advertising a service for £50 in the classifieds this week. They won't be doing much scraping of soot, and if a nozzle is really needed it will probably be a used one out of the van.
And again like you, I would like it if all boiler services were done to a high standard, but it just doesn't happen very often. You have a contract for 250 oil boilers. Northern Ireland has a hefty 70% of domestic properties burning oil rather than gas, which is around 540,000 boilers. Largely being serviced by people who want to stick a hoover in, possibly do a flue gas check after a nozzle change if there is black smoke billowing out the top, but otherwise leave things well alone and just write the cert. I do much the same to my boiler, but that's the old "mechanic's car is a scrapper" paradox for you.
I've been out of building services for a while now but that doesn't mean I don't know what happens or see what happens, and I see a lot of it. Your standards are admirable, but simply not applied by the majority.
For domestics, yes - unless there is a visible problem or the owner says they are having issues. Quite a few tanker drivers do services as well, to make more money during the summer when demand is low. They certainly don't do anything beyond bleeding the boiler and a quick hoover!
A lot of our boiler stock is also very old - the 30 year old boilers are still ticking over just fine. They don't leak so that means they are OK, and if something goes wrong they might get a new burner for £250. Done as a DIY repair and the nozzle that was sold with it kept - then if anyone "servicing" it decides to replace the nozzle it get's replaced with the same (wrong) one.
A lot of our boiler stock is also very old - the 30 year old boilers are still ticking over just fine. They don't leak so that means they are OK, and if something goes wrong they might get a new burner for £250. Done as a DIY repair and the nozzle that was sold with it kept - then if anyone "servicing" it decides to replace the nozzle it get's replaced with the same (wrong) one.
Thanks for the feedback gents, I wasn't expecting it to get into such a heated debate.
Just to confirm to those in the know - it's a Worcester Bosch G-Star Camray 18/25 boiler. Easy access in our garage and on his report all boxes ticked OK and notes say " Replaced nozzle, Flexi hose OK, boiler in good working order". Engineer was here for a grand total of 1 hr 25mins (pretty much the same time as he always has been for last few years).
1 - Price increase from £68.00 +VAT to £75.00+VAT (no problem!)
2 - Nozzle charged at £15.00 +VAT (no problem)
3 - The fact his service time has gone over an hour by 25mins (like it always has) - £27.50+VAT (PROBLEM!)
Like I say, I'm happy with the first 2 but I feel this additional number 3 is taking the p1$$..
Just to confirm to those in the know - it's a Worcester Bosch G-Star Camray 18/25 boiler. Easy access in our garage and on his report all boxes ticked OK and notes say " Replaced nozzle, Flexi hose OK, boiler in good working order". Engineer was here for a grand total of 1 hr 25mins (pretty much the same time as he always has been for last few years).
1 - Price increase from £68.00 +VAT to £75.00+VAT (no problem!)
2 - Nozzle charged at £15.00 +VAT (no problem)
3 - The fact his service time has gone over an hour by 25mins (like it always has) - £27.50+VAT (PROBLEM!)
Like I say, I'm happy with the first 2 but I feel this additional number 3 is taking the p1$$..
Hi guys, just an update, I have have finally had an email response regarding my oil fed boiler service bill query (and why they have charged me half hour labour ON TOP of their set service cost). Get a load of this, bearing in mind the last 3 services that he mentions have always been fine, no issues or advisories and nozzles they have changed have practically been spotless. So you could say, it's not been a "dirty" boiler like he quotes.
"Thankyou for your email, sorry its taken a while to come back to you,
We have found out that oil companies are putting additives in their fuel and we are finding more and more boilers are getting dirtier and dirtier between services. Some of these services are taking 1.5 hours to 2 hours. As we are finding this more and more, we have put a note on the service letter that some boilers may incur a labour charge if this is the result. We though this was a fair way as some boilers are fine year on year.
Doing it this way meant only the customers that have the dirtier boilers would have to pay more labour, rather than look at raising the price across the board.
The last 3 years your boiler has took longer than the usual time we set aside for a boiler service which is 1 hour. The last three services have taken 1 hr 30 mins. I see that we have charged you 1/2 hour labour charge which is the part you are querying.
We have held our prices for the last 14 years and only made a small increase this year to the usual standard costs. The invoice we have done we believe to be fair and we have done this for other customers as well. After saying this we would like to rectify this with yourselves to carry on a good working relationship with you."
So guys, what do you reckon?
"Thankyou for your email, sorry its taken a while to come back to you,
We have found out that oil companies are putting additives in their fuel and we are finding more and more boilers are getting dirtier and dirtier between services. Some of these services are taking 1.5 hours to 2 hours. As we are finding this more and more, we have put a note on the service letter that some boilers may incur a labour charge if this is the result. We though this was a fair way as some boilers are fine year on year.
Doing it this way meant only the customers that have the dirtier boilers would have to pay more labour, rather than look at raising the price across the board.
The last 3 years your boiler has took longer than the usual time we set aside for a boiler service which is 1 hour. The last three services have taken 1 hr 30 mins. I see that we have charged you 1/2 hour labour charge which is the part you are querying.
We have held our prices for the last 14 years and only made a small increase this year to the usual standard costs. The invoice we have done we believe to be fair and we have done this for other customers as well. After saying this we would like to rectify this with yourselves to carry on a good working relationship with you."
So guys, what do you reckon?
Edited by Daggerpie on Friday 8th January 14:13
Daggerpie said:
...The invoice we have done we believe to be fair and we have done this for other customers as well. After saying this we would like to rectify this with yourselves to carry on a good working relationship with you."..
So guys, what do you reckon?
You appear to have left off the details of how they are going to rectify it. Are they going to take off the additional half hour this year?So guys, what do you reckon?
The plumber I have been using for the last 5 years (same guy who installed my central heating system and boiler charges me £65 for a boiler service assuming it is a straight forward job with no parts (Which i've never needed). He runs a small family business he took over from his Dad who still does a bit every now and then but pretty much handed over to his son now.
Chipstick said:
You appear to have left off the details of how they are going to rectify it. Are they going to take off the additional half hour this year?
That was it, I'm presuming they have left the ball in my court so possibly yes. I'm more than happy to pay they set service cost (like I have done for several years) but I'm just seeking some feedback from you guys about the explanation of this new "extra"? Also, it seems I have now somehow come into the category of "dirty boiler, hence why it has taken so long" category which is odd as he was here for the same time he always has and it's always been a clean boiler, nozzle he replaced was always clean, always run on premium fuel etc..I could understand if it was genuinely a problem boiler/ dirty etc and he was here longer than normal, but the fact is....it isn't and he wasn't lol!!
I think I might just offer to pay the bill (minus his cheeky half hour extra) based on the fact I will no longer use them again.
MJNewton said:
Sounds reasonable to me. More than reasonable fact - a very thorough explanation.
(I am assuming they were indeed there for over an hour as stated)
It's a good explanation but makes no sense in my case as service took no longer than previous years.(I am assuming they were indeed there for over an hour as stated)
Edited by MJNewton on Friday 8th January 14:28
Take it in car terms, the guy you have been using for valeting your car for a number of years suddenly charges you 40% more and his explanation is because he has to charge more for extra dirty cars. Fair enough, but the car you gave him to valet was practically spotless to start with, in fact probably didn't even need a valet to start with. Do you see what i mean?
Edited by Daggerpie on Friday 8th January 15:14
Just had our oil boiler serviced and received the invoice this morning...£172 (inc VAT).
Ex VAT prices
Service - 1 hour @ £95
Oil hose - £17 x 2
Nozzle - £15
Didn't bother getting a quote as they come every year, but this is a jump up on previous years and they replaced the oil hoses last year.
How often should oil hoses be replaced?
I think I will be shopping around next year - or switch it to every two years.
Ex VAT prices
Service - 1 hour @ £95
Oil hose - £17 x 2
Nozzle - £15
Didn't bother getting a quote as they come every year, but this is a jump up on previous years and they replaced the oil hoses last year.
How often should oil hoses be replaced?
I think I will be shopping around next year - or switch it to every two years.
alfabeat said:
Just had our oil boiler serviced and received the invoice this morning...£172 (inc VAT).
Ex VAT prices
Service - 1 hour @ £95
Oil hose - £17 x 2
Nozzle - £15
Didn't bother getting a quote as they come every year, but this is a jump up on previous years and they replaced the oil hoses last year.
How often should oil hoses be replaced?
I think I will be shopping around next year - or switch it to every two years.
I'd switch it to what i do (granted I have gas and not oil) don't spunk money on annual services and get it fixed if/when it breaks.Ex VAT prices
Service - 1 hour @ £95
Oil hose - £17 x 2
Nozzle - £15
Didn't bother getting a quote as they come every year, but this is a jump up on previous years and they replaced the oil hoses last year.
How often should oil hoses be replaced?
I think I will be shopping around next year - or switch it to every two years.
TwistingMyMelon said:
Blimey really?
Seems a fair explanation
I guess this can be filed under "trades should still be charging what they did in 1998"
And your reply should be filed under "I obviously haven't read the thread but I'll make an unhelpful comment anyway".Seems a fair explanation
I guess this can be filed under "trades should still be charging what they did in 1998"
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Friday 8th January 15:31
Seriously, please tell me how this explanation even applies to my circumstances?
The accent from her in Ronin said:
Oil companies putting additives in the oil that makes the boiler dirtier - that is balls. If the boiler was dirty that is fair enough (but they should have told you), but why is he lying to you about the additive bit? He knows it isn't true, so why is he telling you that?
Thank you, that is exactly what I was thinking but wanted to check. They are obviously feeling the pinch like everyone else and I'm sure a vast amount of people wouldn't even query it.I was actually in 2 minds about getting it serviced anyway but it was them that pro actively contacted me to remind me it was coming up to it's yearly service...I wonder why???!!
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