Laying timber sleepers as garden border - DPC?

[rigga]

PhilboSE said:

Taylor James said:

I despair. Faecal matter? FFS who comes up with this cobblers - some millennial at the council? I suppose the one good thing is it provides some clear justification for getting rid of cats in the garden or is cat st special and acceptable?

Despair away.

Are you aware that trains used to flush their toilets directly onto the tracks?

Early 2000's we received new trains with underframe collection tanks for waste, up to then every unit we ran just dumped it onto the tracks, and we were still using some of those old designed trains up till last year, they have been cascaded down to other operators as we have now again received yet more new units, but those old non CET equipped trains will be running for a while yet.

Was always a sticker in the toilets, asking passenger's not to flush whilst in a station ..... wouldn't want the smell to linger whilst waiting on the platform.

Also due to working under these units, there was obviously concerns for health, changing brake blocks was always a laugh, when the discharge pipe was right above your head, and dripping.,bit of a race amongst the fitters to choose the right bogey, you soon became aware which one to pick.

[Baldchap]

Public rights of way can be removed if not used for a long period of time. Given this access is walled off and has been for fifty years, is there not a similar provision for removing the right of access?

[Taylor James]

PhilboSE said:

Taylor James said:

I despair. Faecal matter? FFS who comes up with this cobblers - some millennial at the council? I suppose the one good thing is it provides some clear justification for getting rid of cats in the garden or is cat st special and acceptable?

Despair away.

Are you aware that trains used to flush their toilets directly onto the tracks?

Yes - some of my faecal matter will have been spilled. It's what we did along with many other things we no longer do. We did them because they were actions along the route of learning how to do things better, not because we were dirty gits or didn't care.

Are you aware how long it has been since trains flushed their toilets directly onto tracks in this country? How much faecal matter do you think has survived since then? Think about the body fluids and other matter from all the suicides that must have landed on some sleepers as well. Terrifying.

[PhilboSE]

Taylor James said:

Yes - some of my faecal matter will have been spilled. It's what we did along with many other things we no longer do. We did them because they were actions along the route of learning how to do things better, not because we were dirty gits or didn't care.

You seem to be arguing against a point that no-one has made here.

Taylor James said:

Are you aware how long it has been since trains flushed their toilets directly onto tracks in this country? How much faecal matter do you think has survived since then? Think about the body fluids and other matter from all the suicides that must have landed on some sleepers as well. Terrifying.

According to this article (and others), it still happens to an extent.

The relevance to this thread is that for garden landscaping you can choose to use old railways sleepers that have been soaked in known carcinogens, had untreated human sewage possibly dumped on them in the past, and stain your clothes if you come into contact with them, OR you can use green oak "sleepers" with none of those issues for about the same cost.

On that basis, the question is, why would you?

[Taylor James]

PhilboSE said:

Taylor James said:

Yes - some of my faecal matter will have been spilled. It's what we did along with many other things we no longer do. We did them because they were actions along the route of learning how to do things better, not because we were dirty gits or didn't care.

You seem to be arguing against a point that no-one has made here.

Taylor James said:

Are you aware how long it has been since trains flushed their toilets directly onto tracks in this country? How much faecal matter do you think has survived since then? Think about the body fluids and other matter from all the suicides that must have landed on some sleepers as well. Terrifying.

According to this article (and others), it still happens to an extent.

The relevance to this thread is that for garden landscaping you can choose to use old railways sleepers that have been soaked in known carcinogens, had untreated human sewage possibly dumped on them in the past, and stain your clothes if you come into contact with them, OR you can use green oak "sleepers" with none of those issues for about the same cost.

On that basis, the question is, why would you?

Because I think they look better and I know I have a completely different attitude to risk than you. I don't believe there is any significant risk of developing cancer from my raised beds. Faecal matter is organic and wouldn't survive a fortnight let alone a season. As for staining my clothes, God forbid I should ever sit on the grass.

[Om]

Taylor James said:

PhilboSE said:

Taylor James said:

Yes - some of my faecal matter will have been spilled. It's what we did along with many other things we no longer do. We did them because they were actions along the route of learning how to do things better, not because we were dirty gits or didn't care.

You seem to be arguing against a point that no-one has made here.

Taylor James said:

Are you aware how long it has been since trains flushed their toilets directly onto tracks in this country? How much faecal matter do you think has survived since then? Think about the body fluids and other matter from all the suicides that must have landed on some sleepers as well. Terrifying.

According to this article (and others), it still happens to an extent.

The relevance to this thread is that for garden landscaping you can choose to use old railways sleepers that have been soaked in known carcinogens, had untreated human sewage possibly dumped on them in the past, and stain your clothes if you come into contact with them, OR you can use green oak "sleepers" with none of those issues for about the same cost.

On that basis, the question is, why would you?

Because I think they look better and I know I have a completely different attitude to risk than you. I don't believe there is any significant risk of developing cancer from my raised beds. Faecal matter is organic and wouldn't survive a fortnight let alone a season. As for staining my clothes, God forbid I should ever sit on the grass.

This. Plus, proper reclaimed railway sleepers are long lived. Jarrah and other tropical hardwood sleepers can last 100yrs without treatment. WIth treatment they will last even longer. New Oak 'sleepers' in comparison are a strictly third rate cheapo material...

[rigga]

Taylor James said:

Are you aware how long it has been since trains flushed their toilets directly onto tracks in this country? How much faecal matter do you think has survived since then?

As I posted earlier, we were using trains in the west midlands until late 2020 that emptied onto the tracks, they are now being employed elsewhere in the country, still doing the same thing, not practicle to modify them to sealed tanks due to design layout, that never envisaged them being a thing.
They will continue in service for many years still.

[Taylor James]

rigga said:

Taylor James said:

Are you aware how long it has been since trains flushed their toilets directly onto tracks in this country? How much faecal matter do you think has survived since then?

As I posted earlier, we were using trains in the west midlands until late 2020 that emptied onto the tracks, they are now being employed elsewhere in the country, still doing the same thing, not practicle to modify them to sealed tanks due to design layout, that never envisaged them being a thing.
They will continue in service for many years still.

Unless I missed it, you were referring to early 2000s not 2020?

Where are these trains in use now?

[PurpleTurtle]

Comacchio said:

PhilboSE said:

No problem - J Timber Ltd

They are lovely and square - I was using a landscaping labourer to help and he said they were the best he'd seen. Top tip when building them - use a 12mm butterfly bit to make a bigger hole to countersink the head right in to the timber, then buy some 12mm oak plugs and bang those in then plane off anything that is left proud. It makes a much better finish than leaving the screw heads on show.

Also see if you can get hold of a ratchet gun - these can buzz the screws directly in through 200mm of oak without needing a pilot hole which saves a lot of time.

Ah - free delivery with M25... Will source somewhere local to Glasgow. Cheers anyway.

Not sure if my landscaper used this supplier, but we have identical sleepers in our garden, I see from his FB page that he uses them on almost every job he does, they are very popular.

Ours are set in a bed of pea shingle as a soakaway (I think term is a 'french drain') and have been in since our son was born; he is 6 on Sunday, and the sleepers are pretty much looking as good as the day they went in. There's a tiny bit of expected age related surface weathering, but the wood is all still solid, no need for a DPC, any rainwater just soaks off into the shingle. Highly recommend them.

[Chrisgr31]

Taylor James said:

Unless I missed it, you were referring to early 2000s not 2020?

Where are these trains in use now?

This article https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/03/uk... suggests it’s still ongoing, but due to end

[Steve Campbell]

PhilboSE said:

Steve Campbell said:

Anyone know how much a 100*200*1.2m or 100*200*2.4m weighs ?

New oak.

Cheers

100 x 200 x 2.4 in oak is around 100kg.

Great thanks. Might need to re-think my pair of raised beds 1.2m square then as I'm building it myself & was thinking 2 sleepers high which would make it weigh 400kgs !

[sherman]

If its raised beds scaffold boards would work fine. You could also chop the sleepers into smaller lengths.

Heres what my sleeper raised bed looks like.

Its 2m by 1m.

[blueg33]

My raised beds have sleepers sat on a lean cement mix. The first sleepers lasted 17 years and rotted from the top first. I redid them last spring

[Steve Campbell]

Interesting photos. They all have the sleepers “lay down”. I was thinking of having them “end on” to create a wall 40cms high and 10cms thick so don’t have to bend down as much. Plan was 8 * 2.4m and cut them in half so I would end up with a square 1.3 m across a side.....
Like this but hopefully with straighter cuts :-). Anyone done this ?

[allatsea]

Steve Campbell said:

Interesting photos. They all have the sleepers “lay down”. I was thinking of having them “end on” to create a wall 40cms high and 10cms thick so don’t have to bend down as much. Plan was 8 * 2.4m and cut them in half so I would end up with a square 1.3 m across a side.....
Like this but hopefully with straighter cuts :-). Anyone done this ?

Yes and no.

Made similar box but with 4/5 sleepers (brown treated softwood) deep and used slightly different pattern. Cut them using big (305mm) Makita mitre saw and screwed them together with long M10 coach bolts. overall outside length was a think about 1m x 80cm. Odd size as the box was designed to hold an old water tank, which was then filled with soil for a small tree.

Heavy work. Cut and shadow built in the workshop and then assembled and 'screwed' in position as I could only physically lift one 'layer' at a time.

[sherman]

Sure it would be fine. They are easier to place wide side down though.
Just bear in mind how much soil it will take to fill it.

I put a layer of find gravel in the bottom followed by the turf sods I chopped out of where it went in thd lawn then filled up with bags of rotted manure and compost. Thd bed took snother couple of large 100 litre bags of compost over the next couple of years as things rotted and settled down. Also grew potatoes to help break up the soil
Its now a really light easy to dig soil.

[Steve Campbell]

Interesting photos. They all have the sleepers “lay down”. I was thinking of having them “end on” to create a wall 40cms high and 10cms thick so don’t have to bend down as much. Plan was 8 * 2.4m and cut them in half so I would end up with a square 1.3 m across a side.....
Like this but hopefully with straighter cuts :-). Anyone done this ?

[rigga]

Taylor James said:

rigga said:

Taylor James said:

Are you aware how long it has been since trains flushed their toilets directly onto tracks in this country? How much faecal matter do you think has survived since then?

As I posted earlier, we were using trains in the west midlands until late 2020 that emptied onto the tracks, they are now being employed elsewhere in the country, still doing the same thing, not practicle to modify them to sealed tanks due to design layout, that never envisaged them being a thing.
They will continue in service for many years still.

Unless I missed it, you were referring to early 2000s not 2020?

Where are these trains in use now?

Year 2k we started to use class 170 turbostar units, which had CET equipment underframe to capture waste, these are then pumped out end of day at the depot. Till that point we had class 150 153 156 and 158, all emptied onto the tracks, overtime these units were cascaded down to other train operating companies, or TOC's, and they are still in use today.
The 153 units we were still using up until last year (2020) and they have gone to wales and borders i believe, who also had the 158's, 156 units went to Scott rail way back, 150 went to southern, although I think they were upgraded to CET spec later on...... but as i said, the single car 153 units that dump to the track, were still used by ourselves only a few months back.

[AlvinSultana]

We used over 100 green oak sleepers as retaining walls when we landscaped.
As previously stated bloody heavy but fantastic end result. Again we paid about £22 each which is good value for the quality of the product. We just laid them in a shallow trench and used large iron staples to fix the joints. ( for the aesthetic as much as the practical )



Oak from www.tradeoakbuildingkits.com

Staples from eBay.

[PhilboSE]

Here's mine built half way through some relandscaping I've doing at the moment. Kept it simple by using the sleepers in their natural lengths (2400 + 1200) so final external dimensions are 2500 x 1300. I did 3 layers / 600mm tall because it was still a stoop to work down on a bed that was raised to 400.