Can I build my own river?
Discussion
OK, stream, not river.
I have a couple of acres, near the bottom of a hill, not on a flood plain, middle of nowhere. House water on site is from two wells. There is a medium-sized pond. Listed building.
Am I allowed to build a stream winding its way around the property?
Permission aside, is it feasible? Where would one start / what should I be looking for to learn more about how to do it?
I have a couple of acres, near the bottom of a hill, not on a flood plain, middle of nowhere. House water on site is from two wells. There is a medium-sized pond. Listed building.
Am I allowed to build a stream winding its way around the property?
Permission aside, is it feasible? Where would one start / what should I be looking for to learn more about how to do it?
What are you thinking, exactly? Some sort of 'closed circuit' with pumped flow, so that you're only having to top up loss from evaporation and leakage?
If so, I'd have thought your best bet would be to have ponds top and bottom to act as 'reservoirs' then pump from the bottom pond to the top, so that the top pond is continually overspilling to feed the 'river'. The bottom pond could be replaced with a pumpwell, if you don't want a second pond
First step would probably be an accurate topographical survey, with contours, so that you can establish the relative heights and best route. The difference in levels between the top and bottom ponds would give you the head; which would be a basis for the pump required, and off you go...
So long as you're neither drawing water from, nor discharging to, a water course or drainage system, it's just domestic landscaping and I can't see anyone being too bothered (though probably best to run it past Planning as a Certificate of Lawfulness, since you're within the curtilage of a listed building - they might deem it an 'engineering operation'); but you might want to think about how to sustainably pump the water (wind pump? solar electric?).
The water features in grand houses like Chatsworth House tend to run on a 'constant loss' principle, dumping the water into a convenient natural river when it reaches the bottom, but I wouldn't have thought that would be practical for you, because you'd soon exhaust your well supply.
Personally, I think you need to make it 'flow' uphill from the bottom pond to the top (perhaps in a series of legs between pools?), a la James Dyson, just to freak out your visitors!
I'm definitely up for designing it, if you can give me a topo survey...
If so, I'd have thought your best bet would be to have ponds top and bottom to act as 'reservoirs' then pump from the bottom pond to the top, so that the top pond is continually overspilling to feed the 'river'. The bottom pond could be replaced with a pumpwell, if you don't want a second pond
First step would probably be an accurate topographical survey, with contours, so that you can establish the relative heights and best route. The difference in levels between the top and bottom ponds would give you the head; which would be a basis for the pump required, and off you go...
So long as you're neither drawing water from, nor discharging to, a water course or drainage system, it's just domestic landscaping and I can't see anyone being too bothered (though probably best to run it past Planning as a Certificate of Lawfulness, since you're within the curtilage of a listed building - they might deem it an 'engineering operation'); but you might want to think about how to sustainably pump the water (wind pump? solar electric?).
The water features in grand houses like Chatsworth House tend to run on a 'constant loss' principle, dumping the water into a convenient natural river when it reaches the bottom, but I wouldn't have thought that would be practical for you, because you'd soon exhaust your well supply.
Personally, I think you need to make it 'flow' uphill from the bottom pond to the top (perhaps in a series of legs between pools?), a la James Dyson, just to freak out your visitors!
I'm definitely up for designing it, if you can give me a topo survey...
Enut said:
You would need a massive pump to make anything other than a small trickle of a stream.
Solar powered just wouldn't be do it imo.
A small trickle over a series of weirs would be fine, I think.Solar powered just wouldn't be do it imo.
The actual pump would be electric, so you could use solar PV and/or wind 'topped up' by mains power, if necessary... and it wouldn't need to run 24/7 unless you wanted it to (many of the grand water features on stately homes like Chatsworth were designed to only run when there were guests there to enjoy them, though in that case it was to conserve water rather than power).
Pumped rising mains for sewage are pretty routine, these days (albeit the pumps are only designed to run intermittently), so the calculations on power consumption vs. flow and head will be easy enough to come by.
Simpo Two said:
I love this idea! You can eithher have a moat, or invent perpetual motion 
Or build your own MC Escher one 
https://youtu.be/0v2xnl6LwJE
montecristo said:
OK, stream, not river.
I have a couple of acres, near the bottom of a hill, not on a flood plain, middle of nowhere. House water on site is from two wells. There is a medium-sized pond. Listed building.
Am I allowed to build a stream winding its way around the property?
Permission aside, is it feasible? Where would one start / what should I be looking for to learn more about how to do it?
Of course you can based on name alone.I have a couple of acres, near the bottom of a hill, not on a flood plain, middle of nowhere. House water on site is from two wells. There is a medium-sized pond. Listed building.
Am I allowed to build a stream winding its way around the property?
Permission aside, is it feasible? Where would one start / what should I be looking for to learn more about how to do it?
I dont believe there is anything beyond you Sir !
Trichloroacetaldehyde chic said:
Micro hydro from the stream would give you enough output to power both a super-efficient superconductor pump, AND the special freezer to run it in.
I've only half understood that but that would be really good, if the stream was its own energy source.
Evanivitch said:
What are you planning to line your route with? Flowing water is going to wear away earth or even standard pond liner eventually, so your meandering stream will straighten out. Unless you intend to use stone/concrete?
I'd be fine with stone or brick. You raise a good point and that's why I asked, to know what to look out for.bobtail4x4 said:
a local barn conversion has a gravel bed stream in the garden, it runs from under a rockery about 30m to a real stream , the trick is it does not connect to the real stream, due to a sheet of glass, he has koi swimming in it,
Ha, that's clever. There are a couple of real streams, according to maps, bordering the land, but they are more farm ditches with barely a trickle of water, and only in wet months.Trichloroacetaldehyde chic said:
Micro hydro from the stream would give you enough output to power both a super-efficient superconductor pump, AND the special freezer to run it in.
When I was 6 years old, my teacher gave me the job of cleaning out the class aquarium.Once I'd been shown how a siphon works, I was convinced I had the solution to the world's energy problems... just siphon from tank 1 to tank 2, at the same time as siphoning from tank 2 to tank 1, and put turbines in the flow (my father was an engineer in a power station, so I knew about this sort of s
t, even when I was 6).Static equilibrium and the first and second laws of thermodynamics are a b
h, and I didn't find out about them until I was 11. 
Equus said:
When I was 6 years old, my teacher gave me the job of cleaning out the class aquarium.
Once I'd been shown how a siphon works, I was convinced I had the solution to the world's energy problems... just siphon from tank 1 to tank 2, at the same time as siphoning from tank 2 to tank 1, and put turbines in the flow (my father was an engineer in a power station, so I knew about this sort of st, even when I was 6).
Static equilibrium and the first and second laws of thermodynamics are a bh, and I didn't find out about them until I was 11.
I spent years convinced I could make a battery toy car run forever if I put an extra motor in as a dynamo to run the drive motor. My dad promised me £200 if I could get it to work.Once I'd been shown how a siphon works, I was convinced I had the solution to the world's energy problems... just siphon from tank 1 to tank 2, at the same time as siphoning from tank 2 to tank 1, and put turbines in the flow (my father was an engineer in a power station, so I knew about this sort of s
t, even when I was 6).Static equilibrium and the first and second laws of thermodynamics are a b
h, and I didn't find out about them until I was 11. B
stard. 
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