Electric knockout boxes - fixing...Is this right?

[Previous]

Hi all

Looking for some advice please.

(TLDR version- electrician left a mess...but is it okay?)

I've recently instructed an electrician to do some work, including changing single sockets for doubles.

Electrician quoted, but excluded "making good after".

No issue, as we have decorator coming and plaster patch repair around sockets is easy enough.

However.... this is how they originally left sockets




This one they'd breached the cavity on the internal side of a cavity external wall, and appeared to have mounted with a packer directly to the external side of the cavity wall. Large gap all round, plus a good inch or so between faceplate and box.

Decorator dropped in in passing, said its crap, and I needed to get then back.

I told the electrician that he needed to return, repair the cavity wall, and mount the box properly. They pointed out the "making good clause" to which I simply said this isn't an issue about making good. (It's not- it's about leaving it safe and in reasonable condition).

So, they came back in to rectify.

This time, they appear to have set the box in rapid set concrete:




The concrete isn't flush with the wall... its set back a bit enabling room for plaster.

Question: is this a 'normal' / acceptable way of securing the back box, and is it going to cause issues if adding plaster over? and should I be upset about this?

(I don't mind leaving not quite perfect as always knew some rough edges may need doing, and happy to leave plasterer and decorator to finish fin surface as they're responsible for end finish)

Options appear to be

1. Accept it, sand / plaster and decorate.

2. Get them back again

3. Get someone else to fix it.

I've not paid yet.

Grateful for your thoughts (especially any electricians, plasterers and decorators).

Cheers

[bimsb6]

Stuff like this makes me glad i can do diy and generally don’t need to employ people that leave a job like that , i would be embarrassed to leave something like that and expect to be paid for it .

[w1bbles]

Previous said:

Hi all

Looking for some advice please.

(TLDR version- electrician left a mess...but is it okay?)

I've recently instructed an electrician to do some work, including changing single sockets for doubles.

Electrician quoted, but excluded "making good after".

No issue, as we have decorator coming and plaster patch repair around sockets is easy enough.

However.... this is how they originally left sockets




This one they'd breached the cavity on the internal side of a cavity external wall, and appeared to have mounted with a packer directly to the external side of the cavity wall. Large gap all round, plus a good inch or so between faceplate and box.

Decorator dropped in in passing, said its crap, and I needed to get then back.

I told the electrician that he needed to return, repair the cavity wall, and mount the box properly. They pointed out the "making good clause" to which I simply said this isn't an issue about making good. (It's not- it's about leaving it safe and in reasonable condition).

So, they came back in to rectify.

This time, they appear to have set the box in rapid set concrete:




The concrete isn't flush with the wall... its set back a bit enabling room for plaster.

Question: is this a 'normal' / acceptable way of securing the back box, and is it going to cause issues if adding plaster over? and should I be upset about this?

(I don't mind leaving not quite perfect as always knew some rough edges may need doing, and happy to leave plasterer and decorator to finish fin surface as they're responsible for end finish)

Options appear to be

1. Accept it, sand / plaster and decorate.

2. Get them back again

3. Get someone else to fix it.

I've not paid yet.

Grateful for your thoughts (especially any electricians, plasterers and decorators).

Cheers

I am not an electrician. But I did use to own a small electrical contracting business. That is so not normal it’s off the scale. Whoever did that is indescribably amateur. You are being very calm but I would be apoplectic!

Before we got involved in electrical work we had a local electrician do some work in our house to a similar standard. So while it’s utterly unacceptable sadly I think it’s not unusual.

[LocoBlade]

There's a difference between making good and a f***ing bodge though. If they've done as you said and mounted one socket on the inside of the EXTERNAL cavity then if you get any water running down the cavity from porous bricks etc (as it's designed to do) then you could have damp working its way across the gap and even water in the socket.

[tight fart]

I’m only an average at diy, but even I would cut a square hole (sds hammer with a box cutter)
That I wouldn’t pay for.

[Sheepshanks]

Previous said:

This one they'd breached the cavity on the internal side of a cavity external wall, and appeared to have mounted with a packer directly to the external side of the cavity wall.

What's the internal wall made of - are you sure it's not just breeze block and he's hit a hollow part?

[eltax91]

That’s awful OP. Again not an electrician, but surely cutting out a square, fitting some timbers across the gap and a bit of plasterboard cut to shape and fixed to the timber is the easy solution?

[Slackline]

Sheepshanks said:

Previous said:

This one they'd breached the cavity on the internal side of a cavity external wall, and appeared to have mounted with a packer directly to the external side of the cavity wall.

What's the internal wall made of - are you sure it's not just breeze block and he's hit a hollow part?

This. I've put in loads of new sockets and cat6 outlets recently here. Not managed to get to the cavity on any on them - yet!

The hollow blocks do make for tricky screwing in of the back box though. Sometimes it's easier to bond them in and let the plaster make good.

[Previous]

I'm assuming he'd opened up the cavity due to the amount of little polystyrene balls that were spilling through.

I'm generally pretty calm - I work in sales / contract mgmt so am used to dealing with large issues between big companies.... and 'shouty' tends not to work so well....but harder to see clearly when more emotionally invested.

Appreciate all the replies.

Re how its now left. What are the options?

[No_Idea]

Previous said:

Re how its now left. What are the options?

1. Accept it, sand / plaster and decorate. Move on with my life.

[LocoBlade]

Yeh, as crap as it is, I'd make good, learn from it and get on with things. If you've not paid him yet I certainly wouldn't be paying all of the bill though!

[bgunn]

Moral of the story, do your own chases, set clips and conduit in chases, as well as cut back box holes and fix them in.

Electrician can then pull the wire and wire it up.

A lot of 'trades' these days have barely done a night school course and haven't a f***ing clue.

[Sheepshanks]

Previous said:

I'm assuming he'd opened up the cavity due to the amount of little polystyrene balls that were spilling through.

Ah, yes - I see those now. Not ideal.

[TCruise]

Sometimes I do fear that coming on here and asking any question remotely similar to this results in Armchair (non professional) Experts, giving you either DIY advice or simply scaremongering.

The DIY advice can be helpful. It also can be wrong.
Rarely you might get a professional giving an answer. Sometimes those can be helpful, again sometimes not.

Sometimes I wonder what the point is.

Hopefully the OP does feel better. Whether he knows if he has a potential electrical fault on his hands, I do not know.

[Unbusy]

OP have you removed the socket to see where the box is?
I’m wondering if it’s still set well back leaving the gap and he’s just bodged it by using super long screws to fix the socket. If so then definitely only pay for the materials.
Any aggro and tell him you have photos ready for the various trader rating sites. Ask him if he knows Tonto

[Alucidnation]

Jesus Christ man!!!

It's gonna fkin' explode if left like that!!!!!

[Gary C]

if the pattress box is secure then its fine electrically

but bloody hell, why did he need to hack holes in the wall ?

But if the plaster repair is ok, just move on.

Just read again. I might try to pop the face plate off to make sure the concrete hasn't just filled the box. While that would not be the end of the world but it wouldn't be right either (and as you have screw connections in there, legally you need to be able to get to them)

Edited by Gary C on Thursday 25th February 23:17

[Angpozzuto]

Unbusy said:

OP have you removed the socket to see where the box is?
I’m wondering if it’s still set well back leaving the gap and he’s just bodged it by using super long screws to fix the socket.

This I think is the important thing, a bit of extra decorating isn't a big deal but I'd want to be sure the box is set in the right place

[RobL38]

Christ, looks like they let popeye loose with a bolster chisel. I'd tell them to GTF regarding payment :-)

[MethylatedSpirit]

fk me silly. Don't even bother calling him back.

You can get a tool that gives you a perfect double socket cutout, ready for a flushmount.


Edit: Looks like a cheapo socket too (I may be wrong). I'd be wanting a nice MK socket for -literally- a quid more (other brands available).

Edited by MethylatedSpirit on Thursday 25th February 23:42