Door Hanging - Which tools?

[Tyre Tread]

Evoluzione said:

AlmostUseful said:

Evoluzione said:

Half of the talent is knowing at what point to do one or the other.

The old “you’re not paying for the 30 seconds it took me to grab my hammer and tap, you’re paying for the 30 years I spent learning where to tap”

Yes and it's the same for any job or discipline. I know very few mechanics who will take ANYTHING apart, fix it and put it back together. There is no way i'm going into that territory, I want to know what I'm doing, what to expect and know I can fix it within my remit. There is no way i'm heading off into the unknown because I know the guys that do have a different skill set to me. It's an absolute joy to watch someone who has been doing that for 40yrs and it's a rare sight these days.
It's like getting plaster on a ceiling without throwing it all over the place. To watch someone put something with the consistency somewhere between double cream and whipped cream on a ceiling and making it like a billiard table without spilling it is a delight and worth paying for.

Gtom said:

All the talent is knowing how to get over something when you inevitably balls it up. That’s where the years of experience come in.

No. If you know what you're doing you don't balls it up in the first place, but knowing how to get out of it is worth knowing for that odd occasion.
I did 7yrs in college from basic carpentry and joinery, to advanced. Then Woodwork machinery, then Series 600 building management as it was.
If you want me to set up a Wadkin 220 5 cutter to run off 5 miles of skirting, floorboard or whatever i'll do it, likewise a double ended tenoner or a Whitehill block in a spindle moulder. I'll fit it too if you want with a mitre saw and a coping saw.
I was lucky in that respect, I had an employer who backed me and I rewarded them too. I made them money, they taught me. There weren't many places back then who did it, even less now.

I don't doubt your skill and knowledge but hanging a door is the woodwork equivalent of changing a wheel on a car rather then rebuilding an engine.

If i wanted a fancy staircase building I'd be happy to pay for your training and skill but... IME hanging doors isn't that difficult. I've done quite a few in the past and just wanted to do them better and quicker and therefore have the right tools without investing thousands.

[Gtom]

Tyre Tread said:

I don't doubt your skill and knowledge but hanging a door is the woodwork equivalent of changing a wheel on a car rather then rebuilding an engine.

If i wanted a fancy staircase building I'd be happy to pay for your training and skill but... IME hanging doors isn't that difficult. I've done quite a few in the past and just wanted to do them better and quicker and therefore have the right tools without investing thousands.

I guess the question that hasn’t been asked yet (I don’t think so anyway) how old is the house and what type of doors are you intending to fit? Obviously old houses almost always have casing that are out of plumb/level with twisted legs and 10mm difference in size from top to bottom and that’s where the experience comes in.

My brother in law has got the Rob Clevett jig and little 1/4” router and he says it’s spot on, he also had a cheap tracksaw for trimming the heads and bottoms which also speeds it up no end.

I guess it’s a case of how much you want to spend but you could always sell some stuff after to recoup some costs.

[Tyre Tread]

Gtom said:

Tyre Tread said:

I don't doubt your skill and knowledge but hanging a door is the woodwork equivalent of changing a wheel on a car rather then rebuilding an engine.

If i wanted a fancy staircase building I'd be happy to pay for your training and skill but... IME hanging doors isn't that difficult. I've done quite a few in the past and just wanted to do them better and quicker and therefore have the right tools without investing thousands.

I guess the question that hasn’t been asked yet (I don’t think so anyway) how old is the house and what type of doors are you intending to fit? Obviously old houses almost always have casing that are out of plumb/level with twisted legs and 10mm difference in size from top to bottom and that’s where the experience comes in.

My brother in law has got the Rob Clevett jig and little 1/4” router and he says it’s spot on, he also had a cheap tracksaw for trimming the heads and bottoms which also speeds it up no end.

I guess it’s a case of how much you want to spend but you could always sell some stuff after to recoup some costs.

It's a 1973 well- built house and the door frames are reasonably plumb and square.

I don't have a track saw but can probably borrow one and I did thing about selling off the Trend jig if I bought it but one of the smalller jigs would probably do and therefore not a huge loss if I didn't re-sell it

[CambsBill]

OP, if you go down the router route then also think about fitting radius hinges. With the correct router bit you then have no corners to worry about and (to my eyes) end up with a more elegant finish

[timberman]

Evoluzione said:

AlmostUseful said:

Evoluzione said:

Half of the talent is knowing at what point to do one or the other.

The old “you’re not paying for the 30 seconds it took me to grab my hammer and tap, you’re paying for the 30 years I spent learning where to tap”

Yes and it's the same for any job or discipline.

Gtom said:

All the talent is knowing how to get over something when you inevitably balls it up. That’s where the years of experience come in.

No. If you know what you're doing you don't balls it up in the first place, but knowing how to get out of it is worth knowing for that odd occasion.

Edited by Evoluzione on Thursday 30th December 11:34

I've cocked it up once or twice

I remember ( I think it was probably late 90's) fitting someones new front door and really not paying attention because I had a lot on my mind that day,

It wasn't till I'd finished that I realised the letter box was on the inside which was a bit embarrassing

[Tyre Tread]

This looks good and good value. Any thoughts?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ryobi-A99HT3-Installation...

And this?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ryobi-A99LM2-Installation...

[timberman]

Tyre Tread said:

This looks good and good value. Any thoughts?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ryobi-A99HT3-Installation...

And this?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ryobi-A99LM2-Installation...

I've got nothing against these jigs, and if they make life easier then that's great,

but it's not something I would ever buy and can't really see the point of them

the fact is making a jig for routing hinges is easy and only requires a few bits of scrap wood or MDF screwed together, a couple of clamps along with the router bit I linked to previously and you're good to go.

whenever I see these jigs they always look like a faff to set up and use,

with a home made jig I can have it clamped to the door exactly where I want, cut the hinge recess and clean up the corners and the entire process will have taken me less than a minute, and the hinge will be a perfect fit.

[Gtom]

Tyre Tread said:

This looks good and good value. Any thoughts?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ryobi-A99HT3-Installation...

And this?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ryobi-A99LM2-Installation...

I wouldn’t bother with either of them.

If you want to do away with the jigs altogether, use a laminate trimmer router and use the parallel fence set to the width/depth (the shorter of the two measurements), score round the hinge with a Stanley knife, freehand with the router and just take the remaining out with a chisel. I used to do it this way when doing single doors until I knocked up a jig.

Same applies to doing the latches this way.

Talking of latches, buy good quality! The reason I had to replace a door at home was because a latch out of an ironmongery pack from Howdens failed while my 8 year old was in the bathroom. It was only 4 years old and I had to kick the door through.

[Gtom]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_bIqnAf8b2Y

This should give you an idea on how to use a router for hinges without a jig.

[Tyre Tread]

After much deliberation and procrastination, the doors I wanted came up on offer at the Local (Regional) builders merchants at £20+VAT off each so a reasonable saving. I have now ordered the doors and am back looking at routers etc.

The doors are Oak veneer and I must admit to being worried about damaging them having read the previous comments but will now gen up to remind myself of all the tips, tricks and advice and will report back in a while when I have begun/finished.

Thanks for all the input.

[S6PNJ]

Having just hung 3 XL Joinery Oak doors (47kg each ), on the advice of this thread I bought the Katsu router from ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274338227100 , these cutters https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274972117777 and some hinge drills https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363755771343 . Drills are ok, not the sharpest but they do work and I only use them to start the hole, then drill with another (better) drill bit.

I've been waiting for Aldi or Lidl to have the 'blow up bags' for lifting the doors, but they've not had them recently so I've managed without. 2 more doors to do in this batch, then there will be another door sometime next year probably as we get to 'that' bit of the house.

The Katsu router is great for the hinges - both on the door and on the lining. I've also used it to cut the rounded edge on plain MDF for window boards. Very pleased with it. Just take your time when cutting and it should go ok.

[Tyre Tread]

Thanks S6PNJ - items ordered.

47Kg for a door is nuts. I thought mine were heavy at 30kg.

[S6PNJ]

Tyre Tread said:

47Kg for a door is nuts. I thought mine were heavy at 30kg.

Mine:
OOSUF30-FD
Full Size: 1981 x 762 x 44mm (30")
Height (mm): 1981
Width (mm): 762
Thickness (mm): 44
Width (inches): 30"
Weight (kg): 48 Approx.
Family: Suffolk
Collection: Classic Oak Collection
Finish: Unfinished
Texture: Natural
Material: Oak
Location: Internal
Use: Internal Fire Door
Panels: 6


They do one which is approx 60Kg

[Tyre Tread]

Ah, fire door. That might explain it then.

[edc]

If you speak to the XL Technical team they will advise the best Osmo oil to achieve the finish you want. I bought 6 unfinished and 1 glazed prefinished and it's taken me months to get round to finishing off the doors and that's after I paid somebody to fit them! I've also got 4 glazed oak folding doors to do from a different manufacturer so trying to get a similar final finish.

[timberman]

If the doors are veneered then you want Osmo's door oil

https://osmouk.com/product/door-oil/

also,
if you need to cut the doors down top and bottom it's worth remembering that the veneer is generally only about 10mm thick, so remove any more and you will expose the chipboard innards

[Tyre Tread]

Thanks. I was reading up on finishes earlier and Osmo oil seems most popular.

I was wondering if maybe hard wax may be the way to go.

Good point on the veneer though. Thanks.

[Taff107]

Evoluzione said:

I don't disagree.
I have both and can use either very efficiently. I wouldn't buy a router to do 12, I wouldn't even get my router out to do two.
For the learner you have to make the decision which to learn, traditional or modern. Really one should come before the other, if your router is unavailable, stops working, cutter breaks whatever you're a bit buggered when you don't know how to do it manually.
It's like passing your driving test in an automatic.
You'll make a far bigger unrepairable mess of something with a machine than by hand though.
Everyone is different, my own thread has shown a surprising interest in getting back to basics with lime and doing masonry. There is a lot of enjoyment to be had in learning the traditional skills, using the tools and working with the material rather than just ploughing through it with a machine. It's good for the soul rather than just getting something done and out of the way.

Its all power tools for everything these days, When I did my apprenticeship in the 80's it was pretty much all manual. Learn to do it and do it well, manually first is far better in my opinion. As you have said, I could hang a door with a good chisel quicker than someone pissing about with a router.

[Tyre Tread]

Taff107 said:

Evoluzione said:

I don't disagree.
I have both and can use either very efficiently. I wouldn't buy a router to do 12, I wouldn't even get my router out to do two.
For the learner you have to make the decision which to learn, traditional or modern. Really one should come before the other, if your router is unavailable, stops working, cutter breaks whatever you're a bit buggered when you don't know how to do it manually.
It's like passing your driving test in an automatic.
You'll make a far bigger unrepairable mess of something with a machine than by hand though.
Everyone is different, my own thread has shown a surprising interest in getting back to basics with lime and doing masonry. There is a lot of enjoyment to be had in learning the traditional skills, using the tools and working with the material rather than just ploughing through it with a machine. It's good for the soul rather than just getting something done and out of the way.

Its all power tools for everything these days, When I did my apprenticeship in the 80's it was pretty much all manual. Learn to do it and do it well, manually first is far better in my opinion. As you have said, I could hang a door with a good chisel quicker than someone pissing about with a router.

I'll bet you £100 that you can't. Not consistently over say 12 doors. If you think you can then feel free to pop over and prove it

[mgtony]

When routing the hinge recesses without a jig and just using the fence, does anyone else use this way of doing it? Lay the door flat (on trestles), set the router bit the full depth of the hinge and in from the fence the thickness of the hinge. Start the cut at the first marked hinge position line and stop at the end line. All that's left to do is square up with a chisel where you started and finished the cut.
This gives you a clean cut in one pass with the router resting on the door instead of random passes with a smaller cutter with the router sat resting just on the door edge.