2022 Lawn Thread
Discussion
the-norseman said:
We have gone from this in 2021 (when we moved in).
|https://thumbsnap.com/BTX4GNNx[/url]
To this in February.
To this now, the orange fencing is to keep 60kg worth of dog ripping it all up as best we can until its grown.
itching to get the mower on it again, think I will towards the back end of the week. Still looks patchy in places on the left but we will get there.
Got the mower out today, its looking better |https://thumbsnap.com/BTX4GNNx[/url]To this in February.
To this now, the orange fencing is to keep 60kg worth of dog ripping it all up as best we can until its grown.
itching to get the mower on it again, think I will towards the back end of the week. Still looks patchy in places on the left but we will get there.
dhutch said:
Do you have any thought on improving soil condition long terms, and or use of organic matter, such as manure or bulk-bought peat free compost, as a method of reducing dependence on applying nitrogen fertiliser?
Sure. Getting more organic matter into the soil (whether clay or sandy) and fostering an active microbiome is going to reduce fertiliser requirements in the long term. Topdressing and mulching the clippings are both really going to help in that regard.Whilst heavy scarifying can be beneficial to resolve existing thatch issues, in a lively soil there shouldn't be a build up of thatch to deal with in the first place so regular scarifying is then removing organic matter which means adding it back through top dressing. I'd be looking at restricting it to removing lateral green growth rather than subsurface growth (verticutting rather than scarifying) unless there's a good reason not to.
Problematic thatch is the build up of layers of matted dead roots etc that aren't getting broken down through normal biological processes. Dead clippings etc are just part of the detritusphere, adding a protective layer to the top of the soil that helps to reduce organic carbon oxidation. If you can keep it there, then all the better. On a golf course where the run of the ball is all important, such a layer is an issue. On a domestic lawn, not so much.
Watering with compost tea can really enhance microbial activity, as can using organic fertilisers. Biochar can also improve soil fertility, water retention, and microbial activity.
If you want to really drop your use of fertilisers to the bare minimum then definitely make use of micro clover in the mix, but the above is certainly going to have a noticeable impact even without.
dhutch said:
This has just popped up.
Sisis Auto Rake mkt 30 starting bid!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284816760506?
Might well attractive good bids, but it specialist enough kit it just might not. Even at ten times that is gone cheap.
Others currently listed from 700 to 1300
Sisis Auto Rake mkt 30 starting bid!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284816760506?
Might well attractive good bids, but it specialist enough kit it just might not. Even at ten times that is gone cheap.
Others currently listed from 700 to 1300
Went for 800 in the end. More than I can justify when I do already have an electric one, even though petrol>electric.
Arnold Cunningham said:
dhutch said:
This has just popped up.
Sisis Auto Rake mkt 30 starting bid!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284816760506?
Might well attractive good bids, but it specialist enough kit it just might not. Even at ten times that is gone cheap.
Others currently listed from 700 to 1300
Sisis Auto Rake mkt 30 starting bid!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284816760506?
Might well attractive good bids, but it specialist enough kit it just might not. Even at ten times that is gone cheap.
Others currently listed from 700 to 1300
Went for 800 in the end. More than I can justify when I do already have an electric one, even though petrol>electric.
A new Camon/Bannerman is 1200- 1500 but while I have not used them, there are 'domestic' spec machines around the 300-600 price range which likely do a good enough job, while being a lot lighter and easier to store than a stonking great Sisis size machine.
You also get the Ryan 'Ren-O-Thin' machines coming up some times, which appear like nice kit, but a little smaller and more manageable.
Edited by dhutch on Monday 23 May 11:17
RapidRob said:
I'm looking to extend my lawn, and have removed around 15m^2 of decking. Underneath is a mixture of clay/soil/ballast. Am I right in thinking the best thing to do is dig this out to a depth of 6 inches, and replace with topsoil?
Basically yes. Although I would also have a bit of an investigation whats under the current lawn, and there is a real danger of ending up with the new bit far too nice! You probably actually want some fairly mid-low grade soil to replace the ballast is there is a lot of it to a depth, then blend in some top soil in the sort of 2-5inch mark and just just the nice stuff for the top couple of inches, and blended a bit with the top 3-4inches. Maybe something like that? Would be interested in others thoughts.While you are at it, you might want to bank on a good thick 10mm top dress and overseed over the rest of the lawn, or at least the first 6-8 feet tapering out into the rest. Helps soften the edge in terms of a step change in soil quality and also flat/level ness and grass quality!
Should look fine from the off. Give it a couple of years and the join will settle to being inviable as the weed grasses come and blend into the new bit.
dhutch said:
Basically yes. Although I would also have a bit of an investigation whats under the current lawn, and there is a real danger of ending up with the new bit far too nice! You probably actually want some fairly mid-low grade soil to replace the ballast is there is a lot of it to a depth, then blend in some top soil in the sort of 2-5inch mark and just just the nice stuff for the top couple of inches, and blended a bit with the top 3-4inches. Maybe something like that? Would be interested in others thoughts.
While you are at it, you might want to bank on a good thick 10mm top dress and overseed over the rest of the lawn, or at least the first 6-8 feet tapering out into the rest. Helps soften the edge in terms of a step change in soil quality and also flat/level ness and grass quality!
Should look fine from the off. Give it a couple of years and the join will settle to being inviable as the weed grasses come and blend into the new bit.
Sounds reasonable, the ballast isn't very deep in places but underneath is quite clayey. Good point on working out what is under the rest of the lawn. While you are at it, you might want to bank on a good thick 10mm top dress and overseed over the rest of the lawn, or at least the first 6-8 feet tapering out into the rest. Helps soften the edge in terms of a step change in soil quality and also flat/level ness and grass quality!
Should look fine from the off. Give it a couple of years and the join will settle to being inviable as the weed grasses come and blend into the new bit.
Is there any point in buying turf rather than seeding, or vice versa?
Was thinking of overseeding some patches of the lawn to tidy it up at the same time
RapidRob said:
Sounds reasonable, the ballast isn't very deep in places but underneath is quite clayey. Good point on working out what is under the rest of the lawn.
Is there any point in buying turf rather than seeding, or vice versa?
Was thinking of overseeding some patches of the lawn to tidy it up at the same time
Yeah, dig a foot deep hole on the middle of the lawn nearby, say 4-6ft from the ex-patio area and have a look. You might be supprised. I can't get a spade/fork into ours more than half way. Certainly at 6inch it is solid sandstone bedrock! And above that it's quite yellow, sort of looks like 50:50 building sand and cheap topsoil! Atleast we don't have to deal with heavy clay I guess? Is there any point in buying turf rather than seeding, or vice versa?
Was thinking of overseeding some patches of the lawn to tidy it up at the same time
As I tried to suggest in my post, it's also good to have a bit of a blend from to the other, rather than a hard boundary between good and bad, because you want the deeper roots to go beyond the top most 'improved' bit which if the change is too sudden it won't like. It's the same planting trees, which incidentally should go in a sqaure hole not a round hole for the same reason, to avoid them effectively becoming pot-bound in their little circle of nice soil.
Turf gives instant gratification, but at this time of year seed will germinate in a week, look green from a distance in two, and be walkable lightly within the month I would say. Just keep it moist in its first fortnight, and water if we get a drought. Never laid turn, but it needs just as much water I'm told, commercial turf is very thin!
dhutch said:
Do you have any thought on improving soil condition long terms, and or use of organic matter, such as manure or bulk-bought peat free compost, as a method of reducing dependence on applying nitrogen fertiliser?
r44flyer said:
I can recommend the no.4 fine grade compost from Field Compost. It's perfect for topdressing, and my wife uses it for potting etc as well. I blend it with a decent topsoil and make it dry and spreadable, with a very high organic matter content. It helps with moisture retention, soil structure, and feeding, plus covering an overseed as I do it at the same time. The lawn seems to like it.
I don't always collect the clippings, as mulching them into the lawn can contribute a good percentage towards the nitrogen requirement. Best to cut regularly so what you do leave in the lawn is small and will break down easily. When I do collect the clippings they are used to mulch the borders or the allotment.
If your soil is particularly thin and/or sandy it will benefit greatly from the addition of organic matter.
Edit: that no.4 compost has gone up 20% since this time last year, which I presume is largely transport costs. 202 for 1500L, which should go a long way depending on the size of your lawn, of course.
I don't always collect the clippings, as mulching them into the lawn can contribute a good percentage towards the nitrogen requirement. Best to cut regularly so what you do leave in the lawn is small and will break down easily. When I do collect the clippings they are used to mulch the borders or the allotment.
If your soil is particularly thin and/or sandy it will benefit greatly from the addition of organic matter.
Edit: that no.4 compost has gone up 20% since this time last year, which I presume is largely transport costs. 202 for 1500L, which should go a long way depending on the size of your lawn, of course.
jagnet said:
Sure. Getting more organic matter into the soil (whether clay or sandy) and fostering an active microbiome is going to reduce fertiliser requirements in the long term. Topdressing and mulching the clippings are both really going to help in that regard.
Whilst heavy scarifying can be beneficial to resolve existing thatch issues, in a lively soil there shouldn't be a build up of thatch to deal with in the first place so regular scarifying is then removing organic matter which means adding it back through top dressing. I'd be looking at restricting it to removing lateral green growth rather than subsurface growth (verticutting rather than scarifying) unless there's a good reason not to.
Problematic thatch is the build up of layers of matted dead roots etc that aren't getting broken down through normal biological processes. Dead clippings etc are just part of the detritusphere, adding a protective layer to the top of the soil that helps to reduce organic carbon oxidation. If you can keep it there, then all the better. On a golf course where the run of the ball is all important, such a layer is an issue. On a domestic lawn, not so much.
Watering with compost tea can really enhance microbial activity, as can using organic fertilisers. Biochar can also improve soil fertility, water retention, and microbial activity.
If you want to really drop your use of fertilisers to the bare minimum then definitely make use of micro clover in the mix, but the above is certainly going to have a noticeable impact even without.
Thanks both for your reply.Whilst heavy scarifying can be beneficial to resolve existing thatch issues, in a lively soil there shouldn't be a build up of thatch to deal with in the first place so regular scarifying is then removing organic matter which means adding it back through top dressing. I'd be looking at restricting it to removing lateral green growth rather than subsurface growth (verticutting rather than scarifying) unless there's a good reason not to.
Problematic thatch is the build up of layers of matted dead roots etc that aren't getting broken down through normal biological processes. Dead clippings etc are just part of the detritusphere, adding a protective layer to the top of the soil that helps to reduce organic carbon oxidation. If you can keep it there, then all the better. On a golf course where the run of the ball is all important, such a layer is an issue. On a domestic lawn, not so much.
Watering with compost tea can really enhance microbial activity, as can using organic fertilisers. Biochar can also improve soil fertility, water retention, and microbial activity.
If you want to really drop your use of fertilisers to the bare minimum then definitely make use of micro clover in the mix, but the above is certainly going to have a noticeable impact even without.
I have started mulching as of this year, if also balancing it with the currently seeding course grasses we have.
Clippings when collected are composted, mixed with other garden waste, and will be used on borders/veg plot/greenhouse.
We do actually have a powered soil sieve, so if we did ever have an excess and I was bored I could process it to 6mm sieved compost!
I guess the Field Compost No4 is a known beast, and not all compost is equal, but can buy compost or manure for less than half that locally.
Watmore's Gold Blend Compost, or Watmore’s Well Rotted Farm Manure
£110 2000ltr £190 4000 ltr £15 shipping
https://watmorestopsoil.com/
Dandy's Multi Purpose Peat Free Compost or Organic Farmyard Manure (mix of horse and chicken)
£120 1000 ltr free shipping
https://www.dandys.com/collections/topsoil-compost
Good point about scarifying having downsides, I have the machine and it would be easy to over use it I am sure. However it seems we are well on top of the thatch now, having been over it two years in the trot, with heavy top dress and overseed last year. So will bare that in mind.
I have done a bit of 'verticutting' with the machine on a higher setting, which appears to have worked well on the courser grasses without removing very much at all. Couple that with spot hand-raking of worst areas. As you say, ball speed is not something I need to factor!
This time I have just put down Lawnsmiths 'Spring and Summer for Sandy soil' which is 25-4-10 to give a good nitrogen kick for the weed grasses as its the same price for more NPK, but even that still has Seaweed etc and typically I do use 'Spring & Summer Natur' which is 18-3-8 but had an organic base. Maybe if I want to use less I should switch to the 'extra-long' slow release products?
I did look at 'biochar' but my reading of 'compost tea' is that commercial bottled products likely do not really do what they claim to, and while making your own fresh can work for very fine turf where top dressing with compost isnt an option, as soon as it is, you are much better just adding the physical compost!
dhutch said:
RapidRob said:
Sounds reasonable, the ballast isn't very deep in places but underneath is quite clayey. Good point on working out what is under the rest of the lawn.
Is there any point in buying turf rather than seeding, or vice versa?
Was thinking of overseeding some patches of the lawn to tidy it up at the same time
Yeah, dig a foot deep hole on the middle of the lawn nearby, say 4-6ft from the ex-patio area and have a look. You might be supprised. I can't get a spade/fork into ours more than half way. Certainly at 6inch it is solid sandstone bedrock! And above that it's quite yellow, sort of looks like 50:50 building sand and cheap topsoil! Atleast we don't have to deal with heavy clay I guess? Is there any point in buying turf rather than seeding, or vice versa?
Was thinking of overseeding some patches of the lawn to tidy it up at the same time
As I tried to suggest in my post, it's also good to have a bit of a blend from to the other, rather than a hard boundary between good and bad, because you want the deeper roots to go beyond the top most 'improved' bit which if the change is too sudden it won't like. It's the same planting trees, which incidentally should go in a sqaure hole not a round hole for the same reason, to avoid them effectively becoming pot-bound in their little circle of nice soil.
Turf gives instant gratification, but at this time of year seed will germinate in a week, look green from a distance in two, and be walkable lightly within the month I would say. Just keep it moist in its first fortnight, and water if we get a drought. Never laid turn, but it needs just as much water I'm told, commercial turf is very thin!
dhutch said:
I did look at 'biochar' but my reading of 'compost tea' is that commercial bottled products likely do not really do what they claim to, and while making your own fresh can work for very fine turf where top dressing with compost isnt an option, as soon as it is, you are much better just adding the physical compost!
I think the main advantages of using compost tea is ease of application versus topdressing and that you're getting a lot of beneficial bacteria from a very small amount of compost. As organic matter and life in the soil builds over time, the impact from applying it will lessen, but on a low quality soil then it's well worth it I would say. The larger the lawn the more expensive and the less practical an annual topdressing application will be, so the greater the advantages of using compost tea.Do you have any other option?
You wouldn't plan it maybe, it might not scale to a whole field, but yes absolutely you can.
I would get one of the Hozelock oscillating 'rectangular' sprinkler, give the ground a bloody good pre-soak 24hr hand, rake the seed well in or even better rake it in and top dress over the top, so it's just a bit further from the surface, and cover with polythene.
Only thing to watch is if it's proper sunny it can't get too hot in the poly, then you have to remove it and water lightly twice a day or something like that.
What sort of size area are we talking.
You wouldn't plan it maybe, it might not scale to a whole field, but yes absolutely you can.
I would get one of the Hozelock oscillating 'rectangular' sprinkler, give the ground a bloody good pre-soak 24hr hand, rake the seed well in or even better rake it in and top dress over the top, so it's just a bit further from the surface, and cover with polythene.
Only thing to watch is if it's proper sunny it can't get too hot in the poly, then you have to remove it and water lightly twice a day or something like that.
What sort of size area are we talking.
dhutch said:
Do you have any other option?
You wouldn't plan it maybe, it might not scale to a whole field, but yes absolutely you can.
I would get one of the Hozelock oscillating 'rectangular' sprinkler, give the ground a bloody good pre-soak 24hr hand, rake the seed well in or even better rake it in and top dress over the top, so it's just a bit further from the surface, and cover with polythene.
Only thing to watch is if it's proper sunny it can't get too hot in the poly, then you have to remove it and water lightly twice a day or something like that.
What sort of size area are we talking.
My wife might not like it, but I could leave it dead until autumn You wouldn't plan it maybe, it might not scale to a whole field, but yes absolutely you can.
I would get one of the Hozelock oscillating 'rectangular' sprinkler, give the ground a bloody good pre-soak 24hr hand, rake the seed well in or even better rake it in and top dress over the top, so it's just a bit further from the surface, and cover with polythene.
Only thing to watch is if it's proper sunny it can't get too hot in the poly, then you have to remove it and water lightly twice a day or something like that.
What sort of size area are we talking.
Planning on doing a seed and top dress anyway. About 80sqm.My grass is looking great at the moment, have done a bit of repair work where we had our patio extended, put some topsoil down and reseeded, trying to water twice a day.
The one issue I have, and not sure if it is a huge issue, is that clover is taking over the grass now, seems to be spreading quickly too.
Part of me thinks, it actually looks OK, nice and green, but the other part of me knows it shouldn't be there!
I have in the past few weeks put some Lawnsmith Spring & Summer Fertiliser for Clay Soil on it. Which greened it up nicely.
What do you all suggest for the clover? Weed and Feed(remembering I have already fed it!) or something else.
The grass is a large area at about 400m2, clover is spreading all over it now, so it would probably all need doing!!!
I cut every week, and am tempted by a robot mower too.
The one issue I have, and not sure if it is a huge issue, is that clover is taking over the grass now, seems to be spreading quickly too.
Part of me thinks, it actually looks OK, nice and green, but the other part of me knows it shouldn't be there!
I have in the past few weeks put some Lawnsmith Spring & Summer Fertiliser for Clay Soil on it. Which greened it up nicely.
What do you all suggest for the clover? Weed and Feed(remembering I have already fed it!) or something else.
The grass is a large area at about 400m2, clover is spreading all over it now, so it would probably all need doing!!!
I cut every week, and am tempted by a robot mower too.
joestifff said:
My grass is looking great at the moment, have done a bit of repair work where we had our patio extended, put some topsoil down and reseeded, trying to water twice a day.
The one issue I have, and not sure if it is a huge issue, is that clover is taking over the grass now, seems to be spreading quickly too.
Part of me thinks, it actually looks OK, nice and green, but the other part of me knows it shouldn't be there!
I have in the past few weeks put some Lawnsmith Spring & Summer Fertiliser for Clay Soil on it. Which greened it up nicely.
What do you all suggest for the clover? Weed and Feed(remembering I have already fed it!) or something else.
The grass is a large area at about 400m2, clover is spreading all over it now, so it would probably all need doing!!!
I cut every week, and am tempted by a robot mower too.
Any real problems with the clover though? Frequent cutting will stop it growing too leggy which can be an issue, otherwise it should stay low and flower nicely. Scarifying or raking will pull much of it out later in the year but wouldn't eliminate it.The one issue I have, and not sure if it is a huge issue, is that clover is taking over the grass now, seems to be spreading quickly too.
Part of me thinks, it actually looks OK, nice and green, but the other part of me knows it shouldn't be there!
I have in the past few weeks put some Lawnsmith Spring & Summer Fertiliser for Clay Soil on it. Which greened it up nicely.
What do you all suggest for the clover? Weed and Feed(remembering I have already fed it!) or something else.
The grass is a large area at about 400m2, clover is spreading all over it now, so it would probably all need doing!!!
I cut every week, and am tempted by a robot mower too.
Personally I think it's a decent addition to a lawn that's not being kept to pristine levels.
Evanivitch said:
joestifff said:
My grass is looking great at the moment, have done a bit of repair work where we had our patio extended, put some topsoil down and reseeded, trying to water twice a day.
The one issue I have, and not sure if it is a huge issue, is that clover is taking over the grass now, seems to be spreading quickly too.
Part of me thinks, it actually looks OK, nice and green, but the other part of me knows it shouldn't be there!
I have in the past few weeks put some Lawnsmith Spring & Summer Fertiliser for Clay Soil on it. Which greened it up nicely.
What do you all suggest for the clover? Weed and Feed(remembering I have already fed it!) or something else.
The grass is a large area at about 400m2, clover is spreading all over it now, so it would probably all need doing!!!
I cut every week, and am tempted by a robot mower too.
Any real problems with the clover though? Frequent cutting will stop it growing too leggy which can be an issue, otherwise it should stay low and flower nicely. Scarifying or raking will pull much of it out later in the year but wouldn't eliminate it.The one issue I have, and not sure if it is a huge issue, is that clover is taking over the grass now, seems to be spreading quickly too.
Part of me thinks, it actually looks OK, nice and green, but the other part of me knows it shouldn't be there!
I have in the past few weeks put some Lawnsmith Spring & Summer Fertiliser for Clay Soil on it. Which greened it up nicely.
What do you all suggest for the clover? Weed and Feed(remembering I have already fed it!) or something else.
The grass is a large area at about 400m2, clover is spreading all over it now, so it would probably all need doing!!!
I cut every week, and am tempted by a robot mower too.
Personally I think it's a decent addition to a lawn that's not being kept to pristine levels.
I know it will never be a perfect lawn, it can't be, we back onto open countryside, so all the weed seeds blow in from there. I just think I may fight a losing battle if I try! plus it makes it look very green!
I will have to get a photo of it tonight.
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