Kitchens - cheap vs expensive
Discussion
We are looking to have a kitchen fitted in our first house. First time I have ever bought a kitchen so don't really know what I'm doing.
First, we got a high level pre-design quote from John Lewis which estimated 14 to 18k which included cabinetry but which excluded appliances.
Second, we got a full design / quote from Magnet for their top end cabinets (Premium ID3) and one of their higher end kitchen ranges (Dunham), which in fairness was a really nice kitchen. It came in at a whopping 24k including appliances and worktops - and that apparently included a 50% discount on the cabinetry!!!
Next, we did our own design on DIY Kitchens based on the Magnet design. First, their solid timber Linwood range - which came in at around 12.5k including worktops (Dekton) but excluding appliances. Second, the Malton range - 22mm foil wrapped MDF, and significantly cheaper - looks like it would come in around half of the Linwood (with laminate over Dekton). Their prices are going up 10% on 28 February.
We also wandered around a Wren showroom and didn't like any of their kitchens.
Our present view is that DIY Kitchens seems the best value plus avoids the frustrating salesmen of the likes of Magnet and Wren. However, was wondering if it was worth going for the solid timber range with Dekton worktops over the cheaper MDF range with laminate worktops? Our house is a three bed end terrace in an unfashionable London suburb which we will probably be in for another ten years maximum. We will need to include appliances, flooring (including levelling), plastering, electrics, fitting, so suspect we will be another 10k on top of the kitchen price at least, and are getting married next year, so saving a few quid on the kitchen itself would be quite helpful, but at the end of the day if an extra 6k or so gets us a much better kitchen it seems a no brainer.
Cheers
First, we got a high level pre-design quote from John Lewis which estimated 14 to 18k which included cabinetry but which excluded appliances.
Second, we got a full design / quote from Magnet for their top end cabinets (Premium ID3) and one of their higher end kitchen ranges (Dunham), which in fairness was a really nice kitchen. It came in at a whopping 24k including appliances and worktops - and that apparently included a 50% discount on the cabinetry!!!
Next, we did our own design on DIY Kitchens based on the Magnet design. First, their solid timber Linwood range - which came in at around 12.5k including worktops (Dekton) but excluding appliances. Second, the Malton range - 22mm foil wrapped MDF, and significantly cheaper - looks like it would come in around half of the Linwood (with laminate over Dekton). Their prices are going up 10% on 28 February.
We also wandered around a Wren showroom and didn't like any of their kitchens.
Our present view is that DIY Kitchens seems the best value plus avoids the frustrating salesmen of the likes of Magnet and Wren. However, was wondering if it was worth going for the solid timber range with Dekton worktops over the cheaper MDF range with laminate worktops? Our house is a three bed end terrace in an unfashionable London suburb which we will probably be in for another ten years maximum. We will need to include appliances, flooring (including levelling), plastering, electrics, fitting, so suspect we will be another 10k on top of the kitchen price at least, and are getting married next year, so saving a few quid on the kitchen itself would be quite helpful, but at the end of the day if an extra 6k or so gets us a much better kitchen it seems a no brainer.
Cheers
Edited by Cascade360 on Monday 21st February 10:51
Without knowing the size and what work you're having done, its hard to make a judgement. were getting ti the end of having our kitchen and utility room.cloakroom completely re-done (total floor area around 22 sq. m/). This included a new floor (with dpm and latex needed), moving a wall and all new appliances and units and it's coming in around £35K. Howdens untits, Bosch & Neff appliances and all the work done by the professionals.
I have a DIY Kitchens kitchen, the quality of the cabinets, etc are very good.
My recommendation is to get the best kitchen fitter you can afford and then budget your kitchen cabinetry and worktops after that.
A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen look great but a mediocre fitter can make a great kitchen look poor.
My recommendation is to get the best kitchen fitter you can afford and then budget your kitchen cabinetry and worktops after that.
A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen look great but a mediocre fitter can make a great kitchen look poor.
Muzzer79 said:
I have a DIY Kitchens kitchen, the quality of the cabinets, etc are very good.
My recommendation is to get the best kitchen fitter you can afford and then budget your kitchen cabinetry and worktops after that.
A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen look great but a mediocre fitter can make a great kitchen look poor.
Which range did you go for? I suppose one main question is whether the DIY Kitchens solid timber range is worth the extra over their cheaper MDF ranges.My recommendation is to get the best kitchen fitter you can afford and then budget your kitchen cabinetry and worktops after that.
A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen look great but a mediocre fitter can make a great kitchen look poor.
Mark Asread said:
Do any of the quotes include fitting? Are you comparing like for like?
No, none of the quotes include fitting. We intend to use a carpenter who is a relative to do the fitting and some broader building work. The John Lewis quote was very high-level, so not really like for like. We initially re-created the Magnet design on the DIY Kitchens planner as closely as possible and it was coming in about half price (though without appliances, so knock a couple of grand off for that) - despite appearing prima facie to be the better kitchen, as it was solid timber rather than MDF. The DIY MDF kitchen is probably about a third of the Magnet kitchen (though haven't priced it out exactly like for like yet) ...
My favourite was the 150mm wall wine rack - something like 685 RRP discounted to 342 for Magnet, and 64 on DIY Kitchens ...
If you want your kitchen to look good for some time, then it is worth considering how the structure of the units would react to a water spill, perhaps when opening the washer door when there's water in it, or from a minor leak from a pipe. In my experience with my old John Lewis kitchen, the chip board or mdf expands on contact with water and the veneer foil on the ends no longer covers the board.
Also I'd make sure that things like the extractor fans are from well-known manufacturers who continue to supply parts many years later.
Also I'd make sure that things like the extractor fans are from well-known manufacturers who continue to supply parts many years later.
IMHO, most kitchens in themselves are much of a muchness. MDF and chipboard are, after all, just MDF and chipboard. If you're only going to be there 10 years, there doesn't seem a lot of point in spending a kings ransom on something uber-fancy. Most companies also use the same hinges and drawer-runners etc. The only thing I would say is that a good quality worktop is worth it, we have quartz and I would never go back to laminate. It just feels so much better, as well as looking really good.
As already mentioned by several people, what makes a huge difference is the quality of the installation. Get everything lined up perfectly level/upright, fix things firmly to the wall, cupboard doors fitted perfectly straight, worktops/end panels scribed to the wall, tiling done really well, and a £10k kitchen can look a lot better than one costing 2-3 times that, but which was vomited into place by a cowboy.
Our kitchen was from Wickes (showroom rather than take-away range), but we still get compliments on it 12 years after installation. But then I spent a good 10 days installing it myself, the only trades used were a spark (we were doing a full rewire anyway) and a plasterer as the ceiling had a huge hole in it.
As already mentioned by several people, what makes a huge difference is the quality of the installation. Get everything lined up perfectly level/upright, fix things firmly to the wall, cupboard doors fitted perfectly straight, worktops/end panels scribed to the wall, tiling done really well, and a £10k kitchen can look a lot better than one costing 2-3 times that, but which was vomited into place by a cowboy.
Our kitchen was from Wickes (showroom rather than take-away range), but we still get compliments on it 12 years after installation. But then I spent a good 10 days installing it myself, the only trades used were a spark (we were doing a full rewire anyway) and a plasterer as the ceiling had a huge hole in it.
To a degree it needs to be driven by the quality of finish and value of the house.
Took a drive over to DIY kitchens a few weeks ago as I wanted to see the quality of what they produce. Was very impressed and will be ordering one for a house that is undergoing some work where, because it’s going to be a rental, I don’t want to spend an absolute fortune but still need a good standard of finish.
Personally the things that I’m more focussed on, in descending order of importance are:
Worktops (which a local quartz place will supply and install)
Taps
Lighting
Cabinets
A decent extractor would be somewhere high up the list, but governed by layout.
Obviously the cabinets need to be of sufficient standard and need to be robust enough to take the worktops but it’s pointless specifying something that would last 25 years plus. The same probably applies to you if you’re thinking 10 years max there?
I’ll also be having the wiring done so that it will take a meatier induction hob than I’ll be having fitted initially.
Took a drive over to DIY kitchens a few weeks ago as I wanted to see the quality of what they produce. Was very impressed and will be ordering one for a house that is undergoing some work where, because it’s going to be a rental, I don’t want to spend an absolute fortune but still need a good standard of finish.
Personally the things that I’m more focussed on, in descending order of importance are:
Worktops (which a local quartz place will supply and install)
Taps
Lighting
Cabinets
A decent extractor would be somewhere high up the list, but governed by layout.
Obviously the cabinets need to be of sufficient standard and need to be robust enough to take the worktops but it’s pointless specifying something that would last 25 years plus. The same probably applies to you if you’re thinking 10 years max there?
I’ll also be having the wiring done so that it will take a meatier induction hob than I’ll be having fitted initially.
mikey_b said:
IMHO, most kitchens in themselves are much of a muchness. MDF and chipboard are, after all, just MDF and chipboard. If you're only going to be there 10 years, there doesn't seem a lot of point in spending a kings ransom on something uber-fancy. Most companies also use the same hinges and drawer-runners etc. The only thing I would say is that a good quality worktop is worth it, we have quartz and I would never go back to laminate. It just feels so much better, as well as looking really good.
As already mentioned by several people, what makes a huge difference is the quality of the installation. Get everything lined up perfectly level/upright, fix things firmly to the wall, cupboard doors fitted perfectly straight, worktops/end panels scribed to the wall, tiling done really well, and a £10k kitchen can look a lot better than one costing 2-3 times that, but which was vomited into place by a cowboy.
Our kitchen was from Wickes (showroom rather than take-away range), but we still get compliments on it 12 years after installation. But then I spent a good 10 days installing it myself, the only trades used were a spark (we were doing a full rewire anyway) and a plasterer as the ceiling had a huge hole in it.
There's a great deal of truth in this. I was recently involved in assessing a very, very expensive Poggenpohl kitchen after a flood the replacement cost of which was well in excess of £100k. I was shocked to discovered that under the fancy wrap it was the familiar particle board material that most are made from.As already mentioned by several people, what makes a huge difference is the quality of the installation. Get everything lined up perfectly level/upright, fix things firmly to the wall, cupboard doors fitted perfectly straight, worktops/end panels scribed to the wall, tiling done really well, and a £10k kitchen can look a lot better than one costing 2-3 times that, but which was vomited into place by a cowboy.
Our kitchen was from Wickes (showroom rather than take-away range), but we still get compliments on it 12 years after installation. But then I spent a good 10 days installing it myself, the only trades used were a spark (we were doing a full rewire anyway) and a plasterer as the ceiling had a huge hole in it.
I recently fitted a Wren Milano kitchen for my daughter and, to be frank, I could not really see a great deal of material difference in quality between that and the Poggenpohl, certainly nothing to justify huge difference in price. I also agree about the fitting point.
There is some truth, especially at similar pricepoints, but it's not 100% true. Chipboard is not all the same. IKEA cabinets, for example, are the absolute lowest grade chipboard I've ever seen. You can snap that stuff over your knee, and fixings can easily burst through the sides if you're not careful. Many top-end brands still use chipboard, but it might be 18 or 20+ mm instead of 15mm (for example) or it might be higher grade/density, and it'll possibly be better finished and more resistant to moisture/swelling.
Lots of maybes in that, I know, as you have to know the individual brand and what they use. A good retailer will have visited the factories for the brands they sell and will understand the processes, quality level etc.
Lots of maybes in that, I know, as you have to know the individual brand and what they use. A good retailer will have visited the factories for the brands they sell and will understand the processes, quality level etc.
Our DIY kitchen's kitchen is 7 year old this year (fitted myself) and what with busy family life, worked hard with plenty of situations of water over topping saucepans, splashes from the sink, spills etc, running down cupboards, it has held out remarkably well.
I went for the a 'painted' finished on a smooth doors and that has been very resistant to chips and scratches. Not had any issue with hingers, runners, trays etc.
How long will it last? I'd say another 5 years tops....but that must be the same across most kitchens you can buy these days at that price point....
I went for the a 'painted' finished on a smooth doors and that has been very resistant to chips and scratches. Not had any issue with hingers, runners, trays etc.
How long will it last? I'd say another 5 years tops....but that must be the same across most kitchens you can buy these days at that price point....
Has anyone looked at or bought the Toolstation kitchens? They seem to be good value, but are self-assembly.
https://www.toolstation.com/kitchens/kitchen-units...
https://www.toolstation.com/kitchens/kitchen-units...
I’m looking into a new kitchen for a planned extension to the house at the moment and have come to the same conclusion as some of the posters above - a kitchen is a kitchen, some of the super expensive ones still use MDF and chipboard so why pay £35k when you can do the same job for £10k?
Have you thought about IKEA?
A friend at work who works part time on his rest days as a kitchen fitter for his uncle’s business has just put a new kitchen in his own house and went with IKEA and has advised me not to even bother looking anywhere else. Admittedly I’ll take the advice with a pinch of salt, but having popped in over the weekend, the units/drawers and cabinets look and feel absolutely fine to me and the price is an order of magnitude cheaper than a kitchen from Wren/Magnet/Howdens. There’s even companies that specialise in fancy cupboard doors for the IKEA carcasses - laminated birch ply, all sorts - so you can spend a bit extra making it look all fancy if that’s your thing…
Have you thought about IKEA?
A friend at work who works part time on his rest days as a kitchen fitter for his uncle’s business has just put a new kitchen in his own house and went with IKEA and has advised me not to even bother looking anywhere else. Admittedly I’ll take the advice with a pinch of salt, but having popped in over the weekend, the units/drawers and cabinets look and feel absolutely fine to me and the price is an order of magnitude cheaper than a kitchen from Wren/Magnet/Howdens. There’s even companies that specialise in fancy cupboard doors for the IKEA carcasses - laminated birch ply, all sorts - so you can spend a bit extra making it look all fancy if that’s your thing…
Muzzer79 said:
I have a DIY Kitchens kitchen, the quality of the cabinets, etc are very good.
My recommendation is to get the best kitchen fitter you can afford and then budget your kitchen cabinetry and worktops after that.
A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen look great but a mediocre fitter can make a great kitchen look poor.
Agree with the above. My recommendation is to get the best kitchen fitter you can afford and then budget your kitchen cabinetry and worktops after that.
A good fitter can make a mediocre kitchen look great but a mediocre fitter can make a great kitchen look poor.
Get the very best fitter you can afford. Make sure they are an expert at kitchen fitting, not just a joiner who has fitted the occasional kitchen. It's all the little things they do that make a kitchen look good, or terrible, and only someone skilled at kitchens will know.
As for the actual kitchens themselves: A good friend of mine manufactures and sells kitchens, and he's the first to admit that it's all 'smoke and mirrors'. The price pretty much depends on how well the salesmen can flog them, or how fancy the showroom is.
This doesn't apply to bespoke handmade solid wood kitchens, where they genuinely do make them in a joiners shop, but it applies to pretty much every other 'factory' kitchen on the market.
I got an 'upmarket' and well respected independent kitchen showroom to design and price me up an island kitchen and a utility room, and it came to £39k. I then got my mate to price the exact same thing up for me and it came to £19k (and that was using all the same NEFF appliances, boiling water tap, engineered Quartz worktops, etc as the upmarket place).
I'm not saying all kitchens are a con, but it certainly reminds me of how double glazing used to be in the 80's and 90's.
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