Drayton Wiser - Hints and Tips Thread
Discussion
I'm a 'non-standard' Drayton Wiser user in that I use their system with a biomass boiler and associated 2000l thermal store. Of course, this causes major issues if I need to speak to their technical dept as they immediately say - our system isn't designed to work with biomass - even if my question isn't relating to the boiler and might be a TRV question. Anyway, I digress... during one call I managed to extract the following information:
Drayton Wiser Tech Dept said:
Control type is letting Wiser know whether it goes through the hub relay or through an underfloor heating output.
In regards to climate type - a system purely using radiators would use the off load compensation and a system with underfloor heating would use on/off response. It is purely to help decide what algorithm the Wiser app should use.
In terms of fuel type - each fuel often uses a different cycle rate...
Electricity will fire up to 10 times an hour - so once every 6 minutes: 10 x 6= 60 minutes
Gas will fire up to 6 times an hour - so once every 10 minutes: 6 x 10= 60 minutes
Oil will fire up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
Fuel pump will run up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
So unless you are using UFH, you want to choose off load compensation.
What I still don't know, is what the 'firing duration' is, within those firing times - say for fuel pump the pump runs once every 20 minutes - but is this for 20 mins (if the heat requirement calls for it) or is it just eg 5 mins and sits idle for 15 before running at the next 20 minute interval?? Anyone any Wiser (ISWYDT).In regards to climate type - a system purely using radiators would use the off load compensation and a system with underfloor heating would use on/off response. It is purely to help decide what algorithm the Wiser app should use.
In terms of fuel type - each fuel often uses a different cycle rate...
Electricity will fire up to 10 times an hour - so once every 6 minutes: 10 x 6= 60 minutes
Gas will fire up to 6 times an hour - so once every 10 minutes: 6 x 10= 60 minutes
Oil will fire up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
Fuel pump will run up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
So unless you are using UFH, you want to choose off load compensation.
Fore Left said:
dhutch said:
System fitted for around 3years now. No TRVs.
I have noticed our Wiser often fires up the boiler for a moment, from cold, in heating mode, before cutting it a minute or so later (well before the rads are even half warm, or any heat comes back on the return), before then firing back up again 2mins later.
During this time the 'thermostat' display shows the flame icon permanently on, but the heating light on the wired base unit goes on and off.
Any thoughts welcome.
I have something similar but maybe without the refiring after a couple of minutes (not sure, haven't checked). When it does it the room will be at the setpoint but. like you, the flame will be lit and the boiler fires. I have noticed our Wiser often fires up the boiler for a moment, from cold, in heating mode, before cutting it a minute or so later (well before the rads are even half warm, or any heat comes back on the return), before then firing back up again 2mins later.
During this time the 'thermostat' display shows the flame icon permanently on, but the heating light on the wired base unit goes on and off.
Any thoughts welcome.
I raised a ticket with Drayton but got nowhere. They couldn't seem to comprehend what the issue was. My best guess is that it is down to how the temperature is displayed in the app/thermostat vs. how it's stored on the hub. The app and room thermostats only show every 0.5 degrees but I know from when I had it connected to SmartThings that the hub works in 0.1 degrees. So, the app / thermostat is rounding - for example - 19.7 up to 20, but the hub is using the exact temperature so the boiler fires. If this happens and I set the app to 19.5 the boiler turns off.
Unfortunately the ST device handler no longer works so I can't test this theory but its the best explanation I can come up with.
What I have seen is when the temp is fairly close to the set point, typically in the morning when I am in and out of the room with the boiler in it feeding the dogs and emptying the washing machine, but in my case, the room temp is below the set point, the flame on the display is lit. During this time the light on the hub comes on, the boiler fires up, gets about 1/2-3/4 way through ramping up to a reasonable output from cold/coldish and then the heating light on the hub goes out, cutting the boiler, flame still let. Then a bit later on, it fires up again, maybe for a bit longer, maybe not.
It feels like the Wiser is somehow trying to do some sort of modulation type output feathering, but the timing seems well to short for that, even with a 'normal' sort of setup but in our larger house, with the flow temp set fairly conservatively, the boiler can fire much longer than it is.
S6PNJ said:
.... during one call I managed to extract the following information:
Yeah, I am baffled by that. Surely the frequency and duration the boiler fires would be determined by the boiler, and very model to model, system to system, day to day depending on load and boiler spec etc, based largely on what is required to maintain the flow temp at ant given time, rather than anything like what the above suggests.Drayton Wiser Tech Dept said:
Control type is letting Wiser know whether it goes through the hub relay or through an underfloor heating output.
In regards to climate {control?} type - a system purely using radiators would use the off load compensation and a system with underfloor heating would use on/off response. It is purely to help decide what algorithm the Wiser app should use.
In terms of fuel type - each fuel often uses a different cycle rate...
Electricity will fire up to 10 times an hour - so once every 6 minutes: 10 x 6= 60 minutes
Gas will fire up to 6 times an hour - so once every 10 minutes: 6 x 10= 60 minutes
Oil will fire up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
Fuel {Heat?} pump will run up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
So unless you are using UFH, you want to choose off load compensation.
What I still don't know, is what the 'firing duration' is, within those firing times - say for fuel pump the pump runs once every 20 minutes - but is this for 20 mins (if the heat requirement calls for it) or is it just eg 5 mins and sits idle for 15 before running at the next 20 minute interval?? Anyone any Wiser (ISWYDT).In regards to climate {control?} type - a system purely using radiators would use the off load compensation and a system with underfloor heating would use on/off response. It is purely to help decide what algorithm the Wiser app should use.
In terms of fuel type - each fuel often uses a different cycle rate...
Electricity will fire up to 10 times an hour - so once every 6 minutes: 10 x 6= 60 minutes
Gas will fire up to 6 times an hour - so once every 10 minutes: 6 x 10= 60 minutes
Oil will fire up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
Fuel {Heat?} pump will run up to 3 times an hour - so once every 20 minutes: 3 x 20= 60 minutes
So unless you are using UFH, you want to choose off load compensation.
You do get a choice of.
- Heat Source type: Gas Boiler, Oil Boiler, Electric Boiler, Head Pump
- Control type: Relay, OpenTherm, On/Off load compensation.
Maybe if I put my gas fired system boiler (Viessmann Vitodens 100) in as a Oil Boiler it would fire long and cycle less!
I didn't do the selecting of the above as the initial setup was done by the plumber (who was rough af) and have only just found it now having seen your post, feels like time to at least read the manual.
dhutch said:
Right, so in your case, it could be the the display is showing it as at the set point (rounded) but the hub knows its 0.2 out and therefore wants to fire, or something?
What I have seen is when the temp is fairly close to the set point, typically in the morning when I am in and out of the room with the boiler in it feeding the dogs and emptying the washing machine, but in my case, the room temp is below the set point, the flame on the display is lit. During this time the light on the hub comes on, the boiler fires up, gets about 1/2-3/4 way through ramping up to a reasonable output from cold/coldish and then the heating light on the hub goes out, cutting the boiler, flame still let. Then a bit later on, it fires up again, maybe for a bit longer, maybe not.
It feels like the Wiser is somehow trying to do some sort of modulation type output feathering, but the timing seems well to short for that, even with a 'normal' sort of setup but in our larger house, with the flow temp set fairly conservatively, the boiler can fire much longer than it is.
Correct. However this is simply an uneducated guess to explain the behaviour I've seen. I have also seen the behaviour you describe so there may be more to it than that.What I have seen is when the temp is fairly close to the set point, typically in the morning when I am in and out of the room with the boiler in it feeding the dogs and emptying the washing machine, but in my case, the room temp is below the set point, the flame on the display is lit. During this time the light on the hub comes on, the boiler fires up, gets about 1/2-3/4 way through ramping up to a reasonable output from cold/coldish and then the heating light on the hub goes out, cutting the boiler, flame still let. Then a bit later on, it fires up again, maybe for a bit longer, maybe not.
It feels like the Wiser is somehow trying to do some sort of modulation type output feathering, but the timing seems well to short for that, even with a 'normal' sort of setup but in our larger house, with the flow temp set fairly conservatively, the boiler can fire much longer than it is.
There is also this FAQ which kind of describes the decreasing boiler on time and mentions the unexplained "algorithm".
Its all a bit mysterious.
I had Drayton Wiser TRVs on all my radiators a few years back. I'm a heating engineer so got them fairly early on. They were fine for a year or so apart from a few random disconnects and buggy software.
Then in the middle of the night, in the summer, at complete random, the TRV in my daughters bedroom called for heat and fired the boiler constantly on the radiator until it was over 30 degrees in her room. She was only 2 and I only realised because the heat was wafting from her ajar bedroom door, out into the hallways and into my room. The heat actually woke me up. She was ok but very very hot.
It was obviously all completely turned off on the app.
Ripped it out a couple of days later and went back to traditional TRVs.
Then in the middle of the night, in the summer, at complete random, the TRV in my daughters bedroom called for heat and fired the boiler constantly on the radiator until it was over 30 degrees in her room. She was only 2 and I only realised because the heat was wafting from her ajar bedroom door, out into the hallways and into my room. The heat actually woke me up. She was ok but very very hot.
It was obviously all completely turned off on the app.
Ripped it out a couple of days later and went back to traditional TRVs.
Edited by LookAtMyCat on Friday 14th October 18:27
Fore Left said:
dhutch said:
Right, so in your case, it could be the the display is showing it as at the set point (rounded) but the hub knows its 0.2 out and therefore wants to fire, or something?
What I have seen is when the temp is fairly close to the set point, typically in the morning when I am in and out of the room with the boiler in it feeding the dogs and emptying the washing machine, but in my case, the room temp is below the set point, the flame on the display is lit. During this time the light on the hub comes on, the boiler fires up, gets about 1/2-3/4 way through ramping up to a reasonable output from cold/coldish and then the heating light on the hub goes out, cutting the boiler, flame still let. Then a bit later on, it fires up again, maybe for a bit longer, maybe not.
It feels like the Wiser is somehow trying to do some sort of modulation type output feathering, but the timing seems well to short for that, even with a 'normal' sort of setup but in our larger house, with the flow temp set fairly conservatively, the boiler can fire much longer than it is.
Correct. However this is simply an uneducated guess to explain the behaviour I've seen. I have also seen the behaviour you describe so there may be more to it than that.What I have seen is when the temp is fairly close to the set point, typically in the morning when I am in and out of the room with the boiler in it feeding the dogs and emptying the washing machine, but in my case, the room temp is below the set point, the flame on the display is lit. During this time the light on the hub comes on, the boiler fires up, gets about 1/2-3/4 way through ramping up to a reasonable output from cold/coldish and then the heating light on the hub goes out, cutting the boiler, flame still let. Then a bit later on, it fires up again, maybe for a bit longer, maybe not.
It feels like the Wiser is somehow trying to do some sort of modulation type output feathering, but the timing seems well to short for that, even with a 'normal' sort of setup but in our larger house, with the flow temp set fairly conservatively, the boiler can fire much longer than it is.
There is also this FAQ which kind of describes the decreasing boiler on time and mentions the unexplained "algorithm".
Its all a bit mysterious.
As a test I set the Kitchen temp to 20c. As long as the actual temp reported by the api was more than 19.3c but less than 19.8c the app reported it as 19.5c. Once the api reported temp reached 19.8c the app displayed 20c however the flame didn't go out until the api reported temp was 20.1c.
Temp in the app;
Temp reported by the api;
Repeated the exercise with the Living Room and got the same result.
Kitchen has now dropped back to an api reported 20.0c, the flame is lit in the app and Wiser hub is calling for heat.
Doesn't explain the whatever algorithms they use to fire the boiler but does explain why the boiler is still on after the setpoint appear to have been reached. It's slightly frustrating because (a) the app could work in 0.1 degrees and (b) Drayton's rounding is s
t. 
Fore Left said:
Fore Left said:
dhutch said:
Right, so in your case, it could be the the display is showing it as at the set point (rounded) but the hub knows its 0.2 out and therefore wants to fire, or something?
What I have seen is when the temp is fairly close to the set point, typically in the morning when I am in and out of the room with the boiler in it feeding the dogs and emptying the washing machine, but in my case, the room temp is below the set point, the flame on the display is lit. During this time the light on the hub comes on, the boiler fires up, gets about 1/2-3/4 way through ramping up to a reasonable output from cold/coldish and then the heating light on the hub goes out, cutting the boiler, flame still let. Then a bit later on, it fires up again, maybe for a bit longer, maybe not.
It feels like the Wiser is somehow trying to do some sort of modulation type output feathering, but the timing seems well to short for that, even with a 'normal' sort of setup but in our larger house, with the flow temp set fairly conservatively, the boiler can fire much longer than it is.
Correct. However this is simply an uneducated guess to explain the behaviour I've seen. I have also seen the behaviour you describe so there may be more to it than that.What I have seen is when the temp is fairly close to the set point, typically in the morning when I am in and out of the room with the boiler in it feeding the dogs and emptying the washing machine, but in my case, the room temp is below the set point, the flame on the display is lit. During this time the light on the hub comes on, the boiler fires up, gets about 1/2-3/4 way through ramping up to a reasonable output from cold/coldish and then the heating light on the hub goes out, cutting the boiler, flame still let. Then a bit later on, it fires up again, maybe for a bit longer, maybe not.
It feels like the Wiser is somehow trying to do some sort of modulation type output feathering, but the timing seems well to short for that, even with a 'normal' sort of setup but in our larger house, with the flow temp set fairly conservatively, the boiler can fire much longer than it is.
There is also this FAQ which kind of describes the decreasing boiler on time and mentions the unexplained "algorithm".
Its all a bit mysterious.
As a test I set the Kitchen temp to 20c. As long as the actual temp reported by the api was more than 19.3c but less than 19.8c the app reported it as 19.5c. Once the api reported temp reached 19.8c the app displayed 20c however the flame didn't go out until the api reported temp was 20.1c.
Temp in the app;
Temp reported by the api;
Repeated the exercise with the Living Room and got the same result.
Kitchen has now dropped back to an api reported 20.0c, the flame is lit in the app and Wiser hub is calling for heat.
Doesn't explain the whatever algorithms they use to fire the boiler but does explain why the boiler is still on after the setpoint appear to have been reached. It's slightly frustrating because (a) the app could work in 0.1 degrees and (b) Drayton's rounding is s
t. Not sure whether this will help anyone, thought I would comment though…
I have 3 of this type of TRV (possibly Pegler type?) ,
even though I could hear the TRV heads kicking in, the rads were either stone cold or lukewarm
Came to the conclusion that the Wiser heads were not opening enough to get the flow going. Experimented with some small 5mm washers…two over each plunger gives me nice hot rads plus also still shuts the rads off when required
, thinking being the head now assumes the plunger is bottomed out earlier thanks to the washers.. and now opens the plunger a little more
Fingers crossed it stays sorted…
I have 3 of this type of TRV (possibly Pegler type?) ,
even though I could hear the TRV heads kicking in, the rads were either stone cold or lukewarm
Came to the conclusion that the Wiser heads were not opening enough to get the flow going. Experimented with some small 5mm washers…two over each plunger gives me nice hot rads plus also still shuts the rads off when required
, thinking being the head now assumes the plunger is bottomed out earlier thanks to the washers.. and now opens the plunger a little moreFingers crossed it stays sorted…
AW10 said:
I notice the Wiser thermostats detect the humidity but can't find a way to read the humidity within the app?
And is there a way to see what the signal strength is for each Wiser device?
I recall the signal strength used to be shown but it was removed in an update. My early Wiser didn’t show confidence inspiring signal strength so that was probably a good idea.And is there a way to see what the signal strength is for each Wiser device?
I’d love to see the humidity reading in the app too.
AW10 said:
I notice the Wiser thermostats detect the humidity but can't find a way to read the humidity within the app?
And is there a way to see what the signal strength is for each Wiser device?
The room thermostats show humidity on the in unit display. I've not seen any mention of it in relation to TRVs. And is there a way to see what the signal strength is for each Wiser device?
Rockatansky said:
Possibly overthinking this, but I've made some small changes to the heating (flow temperature, location of room thermostat) and I'm wondering how long wiser will take to 're-learn' the characteristics of the house.
Is there any way to or any point in a reset of its historical data?
I thought it only learnt the characteristics in comfort mode?Is there any way to or any point in a reset of its historical data?
Eco mode just seems to turn rads off when at temp
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff