Fruit and veg growers of 2023
Discussion
Sway said:
Evo, I know about no dig. It'll be no dig once setup.
However, irrespective of what I do with my compost heap, I'd need to buy over 20t in order to fill all the beds... With no access for hiab drop off.
I also need to get very good paths in, as other half is disabled so needs good level ground.
So rotovating, putting beds in then using the soil from the path layouts to fill the beds is the overall best answer - I didn't want to, I wanted to dig out the paths by hand leaving the beds intact but frankly I'm beaten.
I've got four large compost bays at various stages, a couple of tonnes of well rotted horse manure plus a soil heap all ready to help the bed filling process.
Sorry only trying to help However, irrespective of what I do with my compost heap, I'd need to buy over 20t in order to fill all the beds... With no access for hiab drop off.
I also need to get very good paths in, as other half is disabled so needs good level ground.
So rotovating, putting beds in then using the soil from the path layouts to fill the beds is the overall best answer - I didn't want to, I wanted to dig out the paths by hand leaving the beds intact but frankly I'm beaten.
I've got four large compost bays at various stages, a couple of tonnes of well rotted horse manure plus a soil heap all ready to help the bed filling process.
as it seems like a heck of a lot of work and there could be easier ways, but don't want to advise if not wanted. I don't know what you have to hand or all the criteria you need to meet either, what constitutes 'good level ground' ? Paving slabs or a load of woodchip/mulch laid down is two ideas.Evoluzione said:
Sorry only trying to help as it seems like a heck of a lot of work and there could be easier ways, but don't want to advise if not wanted. I don't know what you have to hand or all the criteria you need to meet either, what constitutes 'good level ground' ? Paving slabs or a load of woodchip/mulch laid down is two ideas.
No worries - I've done no dig in the last plot, and once the layout is done and beds installed it'll be no dig from there on out. as it seems like a heck of a lot of work and there could be easier ways, but don't want to advise if not wanted. I don't know what you have to hand or all the criteria you need to meet either, what constitutes 'good level ground' ? Paving slabs or a load of woodchip/mulch laid down is two ideas.The initial setup though is 'large', and whilst I've tried to preserve the soil structure the scale is just backbreaking as well as taking a staggering amount of time for limited progress. Let alone the quantities needed to fill beds.
Paths will be a centreline of slabs/paving cobbles/bricks (all freebies) with woodchip either side. Key is a consistent and 'easily readable' surface for her, as any jarring causes significant pain/loss of mobility. Having 6" tall raised beds also really helps for her.
Beds will be 8' x 4', and current layout plans has 20 of those, plus fruit section, asparagus bed and potato section (I'll use bulk aggregate bags for spuds, emptying each year into the beds after harvest).
cml24 said:
This looks like a new thread for me to take a long term interest in! Have read quite a few pages this morning.
I've never really grown much, especially anything edible. My partner tried a little last year, without much success (two months without rain didn't help), but I didn't have any involvement.
My daughter is a bit older this year, and more interested, so thought I'd try harder. To keep me interested I'm only attempting to grown things I'll eat as well. There is only a small patch at the end of the garden to use, maybe 2.5m x 5m. And I've got patio space and lots of old large pots so something things will go on those that are suited / can cope.
I've planted garlic, potatoes, carrot and parsnips outside. Garlic already going well, potatoes only just went in after sat in egg boxes for a few weeks getting the shoots growing. other two are seeds, so nothing showing yet.
I've got brussel sprouts and broccoli seeds sown in a cold frame. The broccoli is sprouting, nothing yet from the brussel sprouts.
Inside the aubergine have a few small seedlings coming up. And the tomatoes are going well, photo below.
I had planned at the weekend maybe to repot the best looking ones into roughly 4 inch pots by themselves. Should I try and break up the individual seedlings, or just put the whole lump of compost in the new pot and trim the rejects down to ground?
I chose 'garden pearl' tomatoes, as my quick check suggested these might be easier to grow than some. I plan to plant in large pots eventually.
Splitting your toms off ASAP is the best way as they'll only have one tap root. If left longer they tend to get more and can get tangled up with each other. As Sway says finally planting deep is good for toms as they develop roots up the stem which is buried, more roots = more uptake of nutrients and water so better harvest and healthier plants.I've never really grown much, especially anything edible. My partner tried a little last year, without much success (two months without rain didn't help), but I didn't have any involvement.
My daughter is a bit older this year, and more interested, so thought I'd try harder. To keep me interested I'm only attempting to grown things I'll eat as well. There is only a small patch at the end of the garden to use, maybe 2.5m x 5m. And I've got patio space and lots of old large pots so something things will go on those that are suited / can cope.
I've planted garlic, potatoes, carrot and parsnips outside. Garlic already going well, potatoes only just went in after sat in egg boxes for a few weeks getting the shoots growing. other two are seeds, so nothing showing yet.
I've got brussel sprouts and broccoli seeds sown in a cold frame. The broccoli is sprouting, nothing yet from the brussel sprouts.
Inside the aubergine have a few small seedlings coming up. And the tomatoes are going well, photo below.
I had planned at the weekend maybe to repot the best looking ones into roughly 4 inch pots by themselves. Should I try and break up the individual seedlings, or just put the whole lump of compost in the new pot and trim the rejects down to ground?
I chose 'garden pearl' tomatoes, as my quick check suggested these might be easier to grow than some. I plan to plant in large pots eventually.
You may find your sprouts too early, but see how it suits you and plant later next year if so. What I found was that (by sowing too early) I had a crop in late Summer which wasn't needed as it's more of a Winter food. Also the sprouts were loose because of the Summer weather, this enabled the World and his wife of critters to crawl into the sprouts and they needed hrs spending peeling them to get rid. When they're produced in colder times they're tighter.
Also you can leave them in over Winter and pick off fresh sprouts when needed. I've only just thrown last years on the compost heap, up until last weekend we were still picking them.
You may also find Calabrese style broccoli better as a summer crop and the sprouting type more suited to Autumn, just bear that in mind and see how it goes. They won't fail, just that they like cooler conditions and may want to flower in Summer.
Micro-greens are a good starter for kids, they can also be grown all year round in the house. The obvious and cheapest are of course mustard and cress with loads more to try if you get into it.
You may find a heated propagator a big advantage, they're cheap in Lidl atm. The heat triggers the seed to sprout very quickly, then whisk them out and into your cold frame or greenhouse. It just lengthens the growing period, but growing without works fine too.
Must admit, I tend to have the same attitude to no-dig of using it on an ongoing basis after initial setup the old fashioned wayt. I've done it both ways, double digging organic matter into a brand new bed and laying carboard and piling it on top. I do like to see what I'm working with and know that I've got a decent depth of good soil, but if I knew that already I'd probably just go for the cardboard.
I've had some onions in for about a month now. Shoots are only starting to show. Just after I planted the real cold snap set in so not sure what effect that will have had. Covered them with compost to try and insulate them a bit. It's taken up half the bed though. Going to plant out some French beans indoors now and then plant them out in a month or so.
RE growing Calabrese broccoli - the thing that stopped me growing it was the sight of a cabbage white caterpillar halfway our of the head, steamed to death. Put me off a bit! I eventually stopped growing brassicas in the open at all, just sick of the bloody caterpillars.
I've done a bit of PSB and kale in recent years, though. Don't seem to be as vulnerable, or maybe I've been lucky.
PSB is in the bed an awful long time and takes up an awful lot of space for the harvest it gives, IMO.
I've done a bit of PSB and kale in recent years, though. Don't seem to be as vulnerable, or maybe I've been lucky.
PSB is in the bed an awful long time and takes up an awful lot of space for the harvest it gives, IMO.
otolith said:
RE growing Calabrese broccoli - the thing that stopped me growing it was the sight of a cabbage white caterpillar halfway our of the head, steamed to death. Put me off a bit! I eventually stopped growing brassicas in the open at all, just sick of the bloody caterpillars.
I've done a bit of PSB and kale in recent years, though. Don't seem to be as vulnerable, or maybe I've been lucky.
PSB is in the bed an awful long time and takes up an awful lot of space for the harvest it gives, IMO.
It's one of the things I'm most looking forward too with my new plot - having the space to be 'indulgent' with these sorts of crops.I've done a bit of PSB and kale in recent years, though. Don't seem to be as vulnerable, or maybe I've been lucky.
PSB is in the bed an awful long time and takes up an awful lot of space for the harvest it gives, IMO.
But yes, any brassicas will be enterely covered the entire time with bloody fine mesh!
One plan for this year is a 'Christmas Dinner' bed, growing all the veg for Christmas Dinner (funnily enough!) to be harvested on Christmas eve. I'd like to do enough to give baskets to mum/SiLs/etc. too.
This evenings job will be putting a rudimentary table into the Pt, as fast as the seedlings come up some bugger is taking them. They're down on the veg bed in there and my money is on a field vole, closely followed by field mouse, no slime trails. Might set up a human trap too and see what happens.
I felt like throwing in the towel last year with a huge and continued attack of cabbage whites, the caterpillars were absolutely everywhere. Over last weekend there was a cabbage white flapping around in the Pt already
I've not grown any cabbage this year, need to get a frame set up first for netting, but there is some organic stuff you can spray on them.
I think I got my onion seeds in too late, maybe two, three weeks ago now. They're all showing, but whether there will be enough good weather or time to get much from them I don't know. Horticultural fleece is what you want if you want to get stuff in a bit earlier.
I got some sets in to over Winter outside and have decided they're in the wrong place so moved them last night. I was bemused to see most of the bulbs are now smaller than they were when sowed!
I'm going to try harder than ever to get veg in the ground which will stay there to be eaten over Winter, carrots, swede and Parsnip outside. I'll capitalise on what I learned last year, also the inside, over winter veg will be planted earlier this year.
I felt like throwing in the towel last year with a huge and continued attack of cabbage whites, the caterpillars were absolutely everywhere. Over last weekend there was a cabbage white flapping around in the Pt already
I've not grown any cabbage this year, need to get a frame set up first for netting, but there is some organic stuff you can spray on them.
I think I got my onion seeds in too late, maybe two, three weeks ago now. They're all showing, but whether there will be enough good weather or time to get much from them I don't know. Horticultural fleece is what you want if you want to get stuff in a bit earlier.
I got some sets in to over Winter outside and have decided they're in the wrong place so moved them last night. I was bemused to see most of the bulbs are now smaller than they were when sowed!
I'm going to try harder than ever to get veg in the ground which will stay there to be eaten over Winter, carrots, swede and Parsnip outside. I'll capitalise on what I learned last year, also the inside, over winter veg will be planted earlier this year.
otolith said:
RE growing Calabrese broccoli - the thing that stopped me growing it was the sight of a cabbage white caterpillar halfway our of the head, steamed to death. Put me off a bit! I eventually stopped growing brassicas in the open at all, just sick of the bloody caterpillars.
I've done a bit of PSB and kale in recent years, though. Don't seem to be as vulnerable, or maybe I've been lucky.
PSB is in the bed an awful long time and takes up an awful lot of space for the harvest it gives, IMO.
I try to put a slightly different spin on it - when I see the amount of wildlife in my broccoli and caulis, it really drives home how much chemicals there must be applied to the bought ones!I've done a bit of PSB and kale in recent years, though. Don't seem to be as vulnerable, or maybe I've been lucky.
PSB is in the bed an awful long time and takes up an awful lot of space for the harvest it gives, IMO.
otolith said:
Jambo85 said:
I try to put a slightly different spin on it - when I see the amount of wildlife in my broccoli and caulis, it really drives home how much chemicals there must be applied to the bought ones!
Aye, there is that - but a steamed caterpillar is a steamed caterpillar 
Heavy, heavy day yesterday, but got the job done...
Really pleased I've done it, as it uncovered a lot about the plot that'd have been really irritating to find out later - like large patches where there's more flint than soil.
8hp Rotovator did the business, my hands and shoulders are still f
ked, but we've now got a blank canvas.
Next jobs:
Tomorrow, down to remove a spade's width around the entire perimeter. Then laying heavy landscaping fabric over 80% of the plot (have a whole bunch of paving cobbles which will end up forming paths to hold it down).
Finish laying the circular patio next to the store and get a spot to sit and drink a cuppa.
Install the first main bed - L shaped around the patio, 8' on each long side, 3' wide. It'll end up being out herb/flowerbed, this year it'll be salads/beans.
After that - getting 4-6 8x4 beds installed with paths between. Screen the lifted soil of stone to fill. Would like to get this sorted by end May as there's a number of crops I'll still have time to get into the ground for this year.
Most of the plot will remain covered until at least summer. Intention is to do it one section at a time - the far end will likely remain covered until end of next year.
Really pleased I've done it, as it uncovered a lot about the plot that'd have been really irritating to find out later - like large patches where there's more flint than soil.
8hp Rotovator did the business, my hands and shoulders are still f
ked, but we've now got a blank canvas.Next jobs:
Tomorrow, down to remove a spade's width around the entire perimeter. Then laying heavy landscaping fabric over 80% of the plot (have a whole bunch of paving cobbles which will end up forming paths to hold it down).
Finish laying the circular patio next to the store and get a spot to sit and drink a cuppa.
Install the first main bed - L shaped around the patio, 8' on each long side, 3' wide. It'll end up being out herb/flowerbed, this year it'll be salads/beans.
After that - getting 4-6 8x4 beds installed with paths between. Screen the lifted soil of stone to fill. Would like to get this sorted by end May as there's a number of crops I'll still have time to get into the ground for this year.
Most of the plot will remain covered until at least summer. Intention is to do it one section at a time - the far end will likely remain covered until end of next year.
Evoluzione said:
That's a big plot, you could get a lovely Polytunnel or greenhouse on there somewhere
Polytunnel in plan for 2024/5... Plan for the beds allows for various sized polytunnels to be installed over existing beds, just differing amounts of them depending on how much budget there is! Sway said:
Evoluzione said:
That's a big plot, you could get a lovely Polytunnel or greenhouse on there somewhere
Polytunnel in plan for 2024/5... Plan for the beds allows for various sized polytunnels to be installed over existing beds, just differing amounts of them depending on how much budget there is! Just getting going on sowing here; didn’t want to start too early for space reasons.
Have gone for some San Marzano tomato to produce sauce for pizzas which I intend to can. Sown 4x2 at the moment. Also have 3x Roma plum as well as a backup bought as small pots from the GC.
Have also sown some sweetcorn - let my 3 year old pick out seeds! She’s also picked out every bean under the sun so lots of those note done yet.
And now have sown the sweet peas tonight, bought from specialist Roger Parsons so some really old varieties. Dahlias and chrysanthemums also on order!
Have gone for some San Marzano tomato to produce sauce for pizzas which I intend to can. Sown 4x2 at the moment. Also have 3x Roma plum as well as a backup bought as small pots from the GC.
Have also sown some sweetcorn - let my 3 year old pick out seeds! She’s also picked out every bean under the sun so lots of those note done yet.
And now have sown the sweet peas tonight, bought from specialist Roger Parsons so some really old varieties. Dahlias and chrysanthemums also on order!
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