Buying a house abroad?
Discussion
A friend of ours bought in Umbria. Got lucky with a local girl who pretty much sorts out everything for not a lot of money.
Builders work at a different pace, but have done a decent job ( New kitchen/bathroom/rewire etc) we drive down a few times a year ( part of the enjoyment for me) and I love the place, Italian and Greek people are amongst the nicest there are, and we are currently considering buying there as well. With views like this, no brainier.
Builders work at a different pace, but have done a decent job ( New kitchen/bathroom/rewire etc) we drive down a few times a year ( part of the enjoyment for me) and I love the place, Italian and Greek people are amongst the nicest there are, and we are currently considering buying there as well. With views like this, no brainier.
We've just bought in Spain between Marbella & Gibraltar.
If I'm honest I'm not convinced it's necessarily the right thing to do, but not everybody (SWMBO) sees it that way. For me the question is truly how much will you use it. If you are working, you are unlikely to be able to be be there for more than a few weeks a year. Weekends there sounds great in theory, but think how practical that really is. A Friday evening flight gets you in late evening, & you are away again Sunday evening, so up the airport Sunday afternoon.. Not really a relaxing weekend!
If you will only use it a few months a year renting is far easier, less hassle & cheaper. Plus you are not locked to the same location. 125k buys a lot of holidays.
If you are retired already it may be a different proposition & a different equation.
If I'm honest I'm not convinced it's necessarily the right thing to do, but not everybody (SWMBO) sees it that way. For me the question is truly how much will you use it. If you are working, you are unlikely to be able to be be there for more than a few weeks a year. Weekends there sounds great in theory, but think how practical that really is. A Friday evening flight gets you in late evening, & you are away again Sunday evening, so up the airport Sunday afternoon.. Not really a relaxing weekend!
If you will only use it a few months a year renting is far easier, less hassle & cheaper. Plus you are not locked to the same location. 125k buys a lot of holidays.
If you are retired already it may be a different proposition & a different equation.
Griffith4ever said:
Craig - when i was there, 12 years ago, the gov sponsored night school. I did one night a week. 35 euros for a whole year.
I spent lots of time with Rosetta Stone app and a headset, which was great, but nothing helped as much as night school. Conversations with my Italian friends taught some vocab, but nothing was as helpful as being taught at "school".
Thanks Griffith, i know i need to do more to learn. Our 6 year old is at school and is also completely bilingual, winds me right up! I spent lots of time with Rosetta Stone app and a headset, which was great, but nothing helped as much as night school. Conversations with my Italian friends taught some vocab, but nothing was as helpful as being taught at "school".
I do her homework with her, and read her stories. Piano, piano as they say.....86 said:
Kitchens sometimes get removed and taken from property to property so be clear on what you are buying
I was talking about this cultural phenomenon recently.... not just the white goods (which would be normal) but everything - cupboards, sinks etc. Quite normal in Italy (apparently) to take the entire kitchen with you. Odd, but true.
Aluminati said:
A friend of ours bought in Umbria. Got lucky with a local girl who pretty much sorts out everything for not a lot of money.
Builders work at a different pace, but have done a decent job ( New kitchen/bathroom/rewire etc) we drive down a few times a year ( part of the enjoyment for me) and I love the place, Italian and Greek people are amongst the nicest there are, and we are currently considering buying there as well. With views like this, no brainier.
That is beautiful!Builders work at a different pace, but have done a decent job ( New kitchen/bathroom/rewire etc) we drive down a few times a year ( part of the enjoyment for me) and I love the place, Italian and Greek people are amongst the nicest there are, and we are currently considering buying there as well. With views like this, no brainier.
I do totally get what people are saying about how much time - as mentioned I would agree it’s not worth it right now, because we are too busy and wouldn’t make it out more than once or twice a year. But this isn’t really a plan for now; might take me 10 years to put all plans in place (I’m 37 now); it’s more about understanding the practicality and desirability of that plan. I think part of it would need to be figuring out how to adjust lifestyle - eg quit current job, start consulting / contract work including a remote element so that we could work from Italy for months at a time - otherwise I would get limited value (so will have to think about internet access!)
Uncle boshy said:
My better half’s parents had one for 20 years.
For us it was great and they had lots of holidays with the grandchildren. They made friends, particularly expats and had a good time with it. In early retirement they went for 10 weeks at a time.
As a downside, they only went on holiday for 20 years there, we’re always doing bits of maintenance and had periodic dramas went things went wrong whilst they were back in the uk.
For me the property ended up owning them and I wouldn’t want to feel restricted to the place unless it was sufficiently close I could go on a whim for the weekend. In their case it was 8 hours drive from the ferry.
My approach is to invest the money elsewhere and use that to fund the holidays.
Yes, this.For us it was great and they had lots of holidays with the grandchildren. They made friends, particularly expats and had a good time with it. In early retirement they went for 10 weeks at a time.
As a downside, they only went on holiday for 20 years there, we’re always doing bits of maintenance and had periodic dramas went things went wrong whilst they were back in the uk.
For me the property ended up owning them and I wouldn’t want to feel restricted to the place unless it was sufficiently close I could go on a whim for the weekend. In their case it was 8 hours drive from the ferry.
My approach is to invest the money elsewhere and use that to fund the holidays.
You spend too much time doing the place up, catching up with odds/cleaning since last visit, local bills, essentials and non-English speaking communities in rural areas.
Too much ongoing hassle for too little real benefit.
Use the money for nice holidays, not routinely tied to the one spot.
CarbonV12V said:
I will kick off as we have had a house in Umbria for the last 15 years.
Things to consider.
The buying process is different but usually more secure. Do some research of the offer/payment process and pre-emption rights etc.
Cheaper properties are usually in a poor state or area.
What are you using the property for and will it deliver for you - we bought 2 properties thinking we would rent one and then decided we didn't want to and joined the properties together - now too large really but great location.
You will need to learn the language if you want to engage with the locals and be part of the community.
Consider the location and transport - can you get flights or will you drive. We regularly drive but can also always get flights to Rome/Pisa.
Who will look after the property when you are not there. The Italian services are not as reliable as our and issues will happen.
There are similar costs to the UK such as council tax (EMU) and other taxes for services etc.
It could restrict other holiday locations as you feel you need to use it when you can - we are now retired so don't have that issue with just annual holidays.
You can spend up to 6 months there or even apply for residency - it's not a major issue.
The Euro rate can change quickly - we bought the house when the rate was €1.60 to £1. It has almost dropped to parity since!! You also need a source of Euros to use and maintain the property.
I am sure there are load more but there are also a load of benefits - we have made some great Italian friends along the way and some of our UK friends have enjoyed some fantastic Italian holidays!!
Hey Carbon I had my V12V CB in Italy with me for 6 years, mind you I hardly drove due to the dust from the white roads,it was serviced by my local excellent mechanics and never had any problems. Things to consider.
The buying process is different but usually more secure. Do some research of the offer/payment process and pre-emption rights etc.
Cheaper properties are usually in a poor state or area.
What are you using the property for and will it deliver for you - we bought 2 properties thinking we would rent one and then decided we didn't want to and joined the properties together - now too large really but great location.
You will need to learn the language if you want to engage with the locals and be part of the community.
Consider the location and transport - can you get flights or will you drive. We regularly drive but can also always get flights to Rome/Pisa.
Who will look after the property when you are not there. The Italian services are not as reliable as our and issues will happen.
There are similar costs to the UK such as council tax (EMU) and other taxes for services etc.
It could restrict other holiday locations as you feel you need to use it when you can - we are now retired so don't have that issue with just annual holidays.
You can spend up to 6 months there or even apply for residency - it's not a major issue.
The Euro rate can change quickly - we bought the house when the rate was €1.60 to £1. It has almost dropped to parity since!! You also need a source of Euros to use and maintain the property.
I am sure there are load more but there are also a load of benefits - we have made some great Italian friends along the way and some of our UK friends have enjoyed some fantastic Italian holidays!!
Sorry op off topic a bit . Italy is beautiful but migration is a big problem.
Aluminati said:
A friend of ours bought in Umbria. Got lucky with a local girl who pretty much sorts out everything for not a lot of money.
Builders work at a different pace, but have done a decent job ( New kitchen/bathroom/rewire etc) we drive down a few times a year ( part of the enjoyment for me) and I love the place, Italian and Greek people are amongst the nicest there are, and we are currently considering buying there as well. With views like this, no brainier.
God that's making me want to go back. The long summer evenings........Builders work at a different pace, but have done a decent job ( New kitchen/bathroom/rewire etc) we drive down a few times a year ( part of the enjoyment for me) and I love the place, Italian and Greek people are amongst the nicest there are, and we are currently considering buying there as well. With views like this, no brainier.
craigthecoupe said:
Griffith4ever said:
Craig - when i was there, 12 years ago, the gov sponsored night school. I did one night a week. 35 euros for a whole year.
I spent lots of time with Rosetta Stone app and a headset, which was great, but nothing helped as much as night school. Conversations with my Italian friends taught some vocab, but nothing was as helpful as being taught at "school".
Thanks Griffith, i know i need to do more to learn. Our 6 year old is at school and is also completely bilingual, winds me right up! I spent lots of time with Rosetta Stone app and a headset, which was great, but nothing helped as much as night school. Conversations with my Italian friends taught some vocab, but nothing was as helpful as being taught at "school".
I do her homework with her, and read her stories. Piano, piano as they say.....Rosetta stone is fab btw - it MAKES you reply with an accent or it doesn't register what you are saying. Learnt my base grammar from it.
a311 said:
Limited use-you've got all the above costs for something you can use for 4-6 weeks of the year, would/could you rent it out-that would add extra cost and hassle.
With two young kids I really liked the idea of having a place to use as a holiday home, I get a lot of annual leave and having somewhere to use for the school holidays for over a decade until the kids are of an age they're no longer interested in going on holiday with their parents by which time I'd be nearing retirement age. But the sums just didn't work when compared to the flexibility of holidaying where we want without any of the agro.
I feel like I'm putting a downer on the thread, but this is exactly the conclusion I came to too. I really like the Tec Valley in the far south of France and for a while seriously considered getting a place down there. However while I'm still working and with two young kids I strongly suspect that it would be as much of a millstone as it would be a benefit. I think I'll leave the place abroad until I'm retired so have the time to spend months on end there but still go to other places too, and in the meantime get a place in the UK that's feasible to go to for weekends. With two young kids I really liked the idea of having a place to use as a holiday home, I get a lot of annual leave and having somewhere to use for the school holidays for over a decade until the kids are of an age they're no longer interested in going on holiday with their parents by which time I'd be nearing retirement age. But the sums just didn't work when compared to the flexibility of holidaying where we want without any of the agro.
We purchased some properties in Germany - one being a larger house that we intend to live in one day.
All have been rented out to long term tenants. The value on all of the properties has increased dramatically over the years and we've never had any property vacant. Aside of the odd maintenance / boiler breakdown - never had any problems.
The only issue is that until we can afford to have one of them sitting empty for 9/10 of the year, we cannot stay in any of them. Empty houses cost money.
All have been rented out to long term tenants. The value on all of the properties has increased dramatically over the years and we've never had any property vacant. Aside of the odd maintenance / boiler breakdown - never had any problems.
The only issue is that until we can afford to have one of them sitting empty for 9/10 of the year, we cannot stay in any of them. Empty houses cost money.
Apologies for going off on a slight tangent but....
Looking into the requirements for Permanent Residency and all I can see is a need for €38,000 per couple annual income, chances are our actual 'pension' income will be less than this but we would be hoping to have a large lump sum, lets say €1m, would that be a acceptable alternative, or would it just be a case of wrapping the lump sum in an investment product that then payed an annual income.
All very subjective anyway as who knows what the next 10 years may bring, but just curious.
Looking into the requirements for Permanent Residency and all I can see is a need for €38,000 per couple annual income, chances are our actual 'pension' income will be less than this but we would be hoping to have a large lump sum, lets say €1m, would that be a acceptable alternative, or would it just be a case of wrapping the lump sum in an investment product that then payed an annual income.
All very subjective anyway as who knows what the next 10 years may bring, but just curious.
I have been helping people buy properties abroad for coming up to 30 years from a legal point of view. If you want to message me privately I am happy to have a chat to discuss various things that you may want to consider. The process of buying abroad is often very different from that in the UK. In Italy, for example, they use Notaries to transfer title. However, it is still vital that you do all the same things that you would do when buying in the UK even though each of those things may be done in a different way. I can give you a couple of generic tips here though.
1. Identify the location that you want to buy in. Think about how you are going to use it. What are you looking for in a property? The sort of property that you use for you own holidays is likely to be different from the sort of property that you would move to. Holiday homes tend to concentrate on proximity to airports (normally no more than an hour) and amenities and tourist attractions. Homes to live in tend to concentrate on interior transport links, local noise and traffic, shops for everyday purchases etc.
2. Look closely at the cost of buying. Often this is much higher than in the UK, which then has an effect on your budget. Work out your budget before looking at properties. If yo need a mortgage then investigate the options at the beginning as this can be more difficult abroad.
3. If possible visit the area out of season as well. Often places are very different when the tourists are not there. That can be good or bad but either way will affect whether you want to live there.
4. Regardless of what an estate agent might say you still need an independent lawyer. That lawyer should carry out searches, negotiate on the contract and talk you through the process. Don't believe an agent that tells you that you only need a Notary. You might get away with just using a Notary but they only get involved at the end after you have paid a deposit and signed a contract, by which time you are committed. I often get contacted by people who have relied just on a Notary and then have problems that need sorting out.
5. It is also advisable to obtain valuations and surveys even though most people don't.
6. Think about taxation and inheritance issues at this stage as you can then plan and often make significant savings.
7. Until you move out there think about how you are going to manage the property in your absence
8. All the way through ask yourself "would I do that if I was buying in the UK?".
9. Think about your exit strategy at this stage. If you need to sell the property quickly would you be able to? A holiday home is normally the first thing to go in a financially difficult time. Is the property the sort of property that other people want to buy.
Hope that this helps at this stage but feel free to PM me to discuss further.
Peter
1. Identify the location that you want to buy in. Think about how you are going to use it. What are you looking for in a property? The sort of property that you use for you own holidays is likely to be different from the sort of property that you would move to. Holiday homes tend to concentrate on proximity to airports (normally no more than an hour) and amenities and tourist attractions. Homes to live in tend to concentrate on interior transport links, local noise and traffic, shops for everyday purchases etc.
2. Look closely at the cost of buying. Often this is much higher than in the UK, which then has an effect on your budget. Work out your budget before looking at properties. If yo need a mortgage then investigate the options at the beginning as this can be more difficult abroad.
3. If possible visit the area out of season as well. Often places are very different when the tourists are not there. That can be good or bad but either way will affect whether you want to live there.
4. Regardless of what an estate agent might say you still need an independent lawyer. That lawyer should carry out searches, negotiate on the contract and talk you through the process. Don't believe an agent that tells you that you only need a Notary. You might get away with just using a Notary but they only get involved at the end after you have paid a deposit and signed a contract, by which time you are committed. I often get contacted by people who have relied just on a Notary and then have problems that need sorting out.
5. It is also advisable to obtain valuations and surveys even though most people don't.
6. Think about taxation and inheritance issues at this stage as you can then plan and often make significant savings.
7. Until you move out there think about how you are going to manage the property in your absence
8. All the way through ask yourself "would I do that if I was buying in the UK?".
9. Think about your exit strategy at this stage. If you need to sell the property quickly would you be able to? A holiday home is normally the first thing to go in a financially difficult time. Is the property the sort of property that other people want to buy.
Hope that this helps at this stage but feel free to PM me to discuss further.
Peter
Griffith4ever said:
craigthecoupe said:
Griffith4ever said:
Craig - when i was there, 12 years ago, the gov sponsored night school. I did one night a week. 35 euros for a whole year.
I spent lots of time with Rosetta Stone app and a headset, which was great, but nothing helped as much as night school. Conversations with my Italian friends taught some vocab, but nothing was as helpful as being taught at "school".
Thanks Griffith, i know i need to do more to learn. Our 6 year old is at school and is also completely bilingual, winds me right up! I spent lots of time with Rosetta Stone app and a headset, which was great, but nothing helped as much as night school. Conversations with my Italian friends taught some vocab, but nothing was as helpful as being taught at "school".
I do her homework with her, and read her stories. Piano, piano as they say.....Rosetta stone is fab btw - it MAKES you reply with an accent or it doesn't register what you are saying. Learnt my base grammar from it.
I'm much better listening to a slower news reader or similar than our neighbours. fortunately, i'm ok with body language and sound effects
. I also find i'm taught to ask for a menu, of say how many cousins i have, i've yet to find a course to teach "Do you think four tonnes or rough crushed stone will provide a suitable base for 2x 5,000 litre water holding tanks" Esders said:
I have been helping people buy properties abroad for coming up to 30 years from a legal point of view. If you want to message me privately I am happy to have a chat to discuss various things that you may want to consider. The process of buying abroad is often very different from that in the UK. In Italy, for example, they use Notaries to transfer title. However, it is still vital that you do all the same things that you would do when buying in the UK even though each of those things may be done in a different way. I can give you a couple of generic tips here though.
1. Identify the location that you want to buy in. Think about how you are going to use it. What are you looking for in a property? The sort of property that you use for you own holidays is likely to be different from the sort of property that you would move to. Holiday homes tend to concentrate on proximity to airports (normally no more than an hour) and amenities and tourist attractions. Homes to live in tend to concentrate on interior transport links, local noise and traffic, shops for everyday purchases etc.
2. Look closely at the cost of buying. Often this is much higher than in the UK, which then has an effect on your budget. Work out your budget before looking at properties. If yo need a mortgage then investigate the options at the beginning as this can be more difficult abroad.
3. If possible visit the area out of season as well. Often places are very different when the tourists are not there. That can be good or bad but either way will affect whether you want to live there.
4. Regardless of what an estate agent might say you still need an independent lawyer. That lawyer should carry out searches, negotiate on the contract and talk you through the process. Don't believe an agent that tells you that you only need a Notary. You might get away with just using a Notary but they only get involved at the end after you have paid a deposit and signed a contract, by which time you are committed. I often get contacted by people who have relied just on a Notary and then have problems that need sorting out.
5. It is also advisable to obtain valuations and surveys even though most people don't.
6. Think about taxation and inheritance issues at this stage as you can then plan and often make significant savings.
7. Until you move out there think about how you are going to manage the property in your absence
8. All the way through ask yourself "would I do that if I was buying in the UK?".
9. Think about your exit strategy at this stage. If you need to sell the property quickly would you be able to? A holiday home is normally the first thing to go in a financially difficult time. Is the property the sort of property that other people want to buy.
Hope that this helps at this stage but feel free to PM me to discuss further.
Peter
Lots of good advice here. 1. Identify the location that you want to buy in. Think about how you are going to use it. What are you looking for in a property? The sort of property that you use for you own holidays is likely to be different from the sort of property that you would move to. Holiday homes tend to concentrate on proximity to airports (normally no more than an hour) and amenities and tourist attractions. Homes to live in tend to concentrate on interior transport links, local noise and traffic, shops for everyday purchases etc.
2. Look closely at the cost of buying. Often this is much higher than in the UK, which then has an effect on your budget. Work out your budget before looking at properties. If yo need a mortgage then investigate the options at the beginning as this can be more difficult abroad.
3. If possible visit the area out of season as well. Often places are very different when the tourists are not there. That can be good or bad but either way will affect whether you want to live there.
4. Regardless of what an estate agent might say you still need an independent lawyer. That lawyer should carry out searches, negotiate on the contract and talk you through the process. Don't believe an agent that tells you that you only need a Notary. You might get away with just using a Notary but they only get involved at the end after you have paid a deposit and signed a contract, by which time you are committed. I often get contacted by people who have relied just on a Notary and then have problems that need sorting out.
5. It is also advisable to obtain valuations and surveys even though most people don't.
6. Think about taxation and inheritance issues at this stage as you can then plan and often make significant savings.
7. Until you move out there think about how you are going to manage the property in your absence
8. All the way through ask yourself "would I do that if I was buying in the UK?".
9. Think about your exit strategy at this stage. If you need to sell the property quickly would you be able to? A holiday home is normally the first thing to go in a financially difficult time. Is the property the sort of property that other people want to buy.
Hope that this helps at this stage but feel free to PM me to discuss further.
Peter
One thing I encountered buying in France that you haven't touched on is that the offer/deposit phase is completely different to England (but possibly more similar to Scotland?). From memory offers are much more binding and you'll be paying a deposit almost immediately, it's been a while so I can't remember the specifics.
Yes, France is a bit different again. Often the deposit is paid before searches are done but the contract allows you to get the money back if they don't check out. Similarly in France you can normally make the contract subject to a survey or a valuation, which is not normally accepted in many other countries.
raceboy said:
Apologies for going off on a slight tangent but....
Looking into the requirements for Permanent Residency and all I can see is a need for €38,000 per couple annual income, chances are our actual 'pension' income will be less than this but we would be hoping to have a large lump sum, lets say €1m, would that be a acceptable alternative, or would it just be a case of wrapping the lump sum in an investment product that then payed an annual income.
All very subjective anyway as who knows what the next 10 years may bring, but just curious.
Generally they like to see it tied up into a product such as an annuity, basically so that income is guaranteed and you can't show them a lump sum then spend the lot on coke and hookers or fast sports cars, then rely on the state... Looking into the requirements for Permanent Residency and all I can see is a need for €38,000 per couple annual income, chances are our actual 'pension' income will be less than this but we would be hoping to have a large lump sum, lets say €1m, would that be a acceptable alternative, or would it just be a case of wrapping the lump sum in an investment product that then payed an annual income.
All very subjective anyway as who knows what the next 10 years may bring, but just curious.
raceboy said:
Apologies for going off on a slight tangent but....
Looking into the requirements for Permanent Residency and all I can see is a need for €38,000 per couple annual income, chances are our actual 'pension' income will be less than this but we would be hoping to have a large lump sum, lets say €1m, would that be a acceptable alternative, or would it just be a case of wrapping the lump sum in an investment product that then payed an annual income.
All very subjective anyway as who knows what the next 10 years may bring, but just curious.
Cash lump is only any good if you are going to give it to the government, invest it in Italian businness, or start your own business and employ Italian people. That's a simplified version.Looking into the requirements for Permanent Residency and all I can see is a need for €38,000 per couple annual income, chances are our actual 'pension' income will be less than this but we would be hoping to have a large lump sum, lets say €1m, would that be a acceptable alternative, or would it just be a case of wrapping the lump sum in an investment product that then payed an annual income.
All very subjective anyway as who knows what the next 10 years may bring, but just curious.
Your £38k Euros has to be totally passive. SO yes, wrap it up in something that drip feeds it to you at the rate of at least £38kEuros PA. No idea how long their min duration is? I did some reading on this recently and apparently they are turning down about 70% of all applications presently!
I have considewred the option of buying in Tuscany and simply living their illegally.
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