Discussion
boy said:Hilts said:
I've never understood the personal pleasure some people get from killing animals.
I can understand the need for killing in some circumstances but to actually enjoy it or find it fun I think you'd have to be a little warped or have some issues.
Ok I'm not from the shooting set. But I don't believe they do kill for pleasure. If you put the people on the shoot in a room, taped the pheasant to the floor and told them to shoot it. They would get no pleasure from it. It's the event, the pitting your skill against nature, the competition, the dogs, and hopefully going home with the main component for a nice Sunday lunch or two. The killing is if anything unfortunate, but if you want the meat must be done. So why not do it in an enjoyable way. Better than doing it the factory chicken way....I can understand the need for killing in some circumstances but to actually enjoy it or find it fun I think you'd have to be a little warped or have some issues.
Bitofbully said:
Munter said:
Better than doing it the factory chicken way....
Sending them to sleep with 'black' light, then using CO2 to gas them as they sleep?(That's the method many chicken producers are moving to in the UK these days, to assist with their RSPCA accreditation)
The birds are still dead. So nothing gained there.
Worse all around.
Munter said:
You get pleasure from that? Far more worrying if true than people on a shoot!
The birds are still dead. So nothing gained there.
Worse all around.
Black light / CO2 is humane and guarantees a non-stressed kill.The birds are still dead. So nothing gained there.
Worse all around.
Shooting doesn't guarantee a kill, and the birds are stressed from the process of chasing them out of the undergrowth into the air.
Bitofbully said:
and the birds are stressed from the process of chasing them out of the undergrowth into the air.
I suspect they are no more stressed than if dear old foxy wanders through their patch. Most wildlife spends it's time in fear of it's life and evading predators. So sorry, but I dismiss that as any thing to consider.Hilts said:
I've never understood the personal pleasure some people get from killing animals.
I can understand the need for killing in some circumstances but to actually enjoy it or find it fun I think you'd have to be a little warped or have some issues.
I have worked with many Americans over the years, and many of them are into hunting. Whenever I've asked why they like killing animals they always have some sort of excuse, such as they eat the animal after, or they need to cull too many deer, but none of them have ever been able to answer why they like to kill animals.I can understand the need for killing in some circumstances but to actually enjoy it or find it fun I think you'd have to be a little warped or have some issues.
Munter said:
Bitofbully said:
Munter said:
There is something wrong with people who think: Oh it's getting colder. Lets spend more time stood still outside, shooting animals for fun
Corrected.Guess that's them not going to waste then, is it?
That comes from my boss, who is friends with the landowner. The landowner didn't give a toss, they'd paid to shoot them, so what the heck with the carcasses.
Indefensible, in my book. Pity the hunters aren't allowed to be hunted.
Munter said:
I suspect they are no more stressed than if dear old foxy wanders through their patch. Most wildlife spends it's time in fear of it's life and evading predators. So sorry, but I dismiss that as any thing to consider.
Given that the food industry spends much of its time taking the stress out of the kill, on the grounds of animal welfare, then I will have to disagree with you on this one.Bitofbully said:
Munter said:
I suspect they are no more stressed than if dear old foxy wanders through their patch. Most wildlife spends it's time in fear of it's life and evading predators. So sorry, but I dismiss that as any thing to consider.
Given that the food industry spends much of its time taking the stress out of the kill, on the grounds of animal welfare, then I will have to disagree with you on this one.Cost will always factor in how animals are slaughtered and dark light and co2 is likely to be fairly cheap aswell as effective.
I actually believe that controlled shoots are a quick humane mehod for birds. Though I do wonder how anyone can enjoy a shoot, maybe the event as a whole but the actual kill no, there should never be enjoyment/ pleasure in taking a life. However gameskeeping is about so much more than the final kill and without legalised shoots many of our country grounds would be in a much poorer state.
bexVN said:
Hmmm, they may seem to try but undercover footage would suggest they are not really succeeding. I'm not sure how transporting animals across country in lorries is reducing stress. Then there's the growing popularity of halal meat in this country which contrary to popular belief is far from the calm peaceful kill it is made out to be.
Cost will always factor in how animals are slaughtered.
I actually believe that controlled shoots are a quick humane mehod for birds. Though I do wonder how anyone can enjoy a shoot, maybe the event as a whole but the actual kill no, there should never be enjoyment/ pleasure in taking a life. However gameskeeping is about so much more than the final kill and without legalised shoots many of our country grounds would be in a much poorer state.
Well, there are still a lot of outdated operators in the industry - but the big players, who largely supply volume to the big retailers in the UK, have invested lots of money in humane practices and reducing transport time of live animals.Cost will always factor in how animals are slaughtered.
I actually believe that controlled shoots are a quick humane mehod for birds. Though I do wonder how anyone can enjoy a shoot, maybe the event as a whole but the actual kill no, there should never be enjoyment/ pleasure in taking a life. However gameskeeping is about so much more than the final kill and without legalised shoots many of our country grounds would be in a much poorer state.
For example, I know of one supplier (one of the biggest in the lamb industry), who kills in mid-Wales, then transports the carcass to the Home Counties for processing - this costs them more money than transporting live animals, as they have to pay a 3rd party for the kill, but it's what is demanded by customers.
The halal argument is moot - I read the Sunday Times article on it recently, and (as you may have guessed from the above), have visited many places where the kill process can be halal certified - but the reality is that mainstream 'halal' meat is nothing more than adding a prayer at the appropriate time - the humane kill is the same.
Anyway, we digress - scaring birds into flight then shooting them with a scatter-gun approach will never guarantee a clean kill, and you're killing very highly stressed animals. I just don't get it.
mrmaggit said:
Oh really? Like the shoot near Belvoir last year when a group of Russians turned up and shot several hundred ducks, which where then buried in a hole?
Guess that's them not going to waste then, is it?
That comes from my boss, who is friends with the landowner. The landowner didn't give a toss, they'd paid to shoot them, so what the heck with the carcasses.
Indefensible, in my book. Pity the hunters aren't allowed to be hunted.
And you think the OP is doing that do you? No me neither. So it's not relevant to the activity the OP is involved in really is it.Guess that's them not going to waste then, is it?
That comes from my boss, who is friends with the landowner. The landowner didn't give a toss, they'd paid to shoot them, so what the heck with the carcasses.
Indefensible, in my book. Pity the hunters aren't allowed to be hunted.
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