Discussion
Munter said:
whoami said:
Munter said:
But I don't believe they do kill for pleasure.
Munter said:
So why not do it in an enjoyable way.
So, which is it?The event. Enjoyable.
The killing. A necessary part. But not necessary to enjoy.
Do you honestly believe that people spend hundreds, often thousands of pounds per day on a shoot and not enjoy the whole process?
The people I know who do this, enjoy it all. Killing included.
I am not condemning either side here but if you truly believe what you post then I've rarely seen such spectacular naivety.
whoami said:
I am not condemning either side here but if you truly believe what you post then I've rarely seen such spectacular naivety.
Not at all. We all do things everyday where taken as a whole we enjoy it. But some components of which we are indifferent towards.I enjoy driving. I'm indifferent (or worse irritated), by having to buy fuel to do it. But I enjoy it.
I'm sure having spoken to people who have been shooting that the death of the bird they are indifferent to. It's not an event. A non thing. Not something considered. Neither enjoyed or upsetting. The skill, competition, and atmosphere. That's what they clearly enjoyed.
Munter said:
Hilts said:
I've never understood the personal pleasure some people get from killing animals.
I can understand the need for killing in some circumstances but to actually enjoy it or find it fun I think you'd have to be a little warped or have some issues.
Ok I'm not from the shooting set. But I don't believe they do kill for pleasure.I can understand the need for killing in some circumstances but to actually enjoy it or find it fun I think you'd have to be a little warped or have some issues.
Bitofbully said:
A site making excuses for people who think shooting animals is 'fun'?
Not so sure about that. Although yes shooting is fun, and yes I'm a memebr of the BASC.As the OP has already mentioned the anti shooting people don't seem to be interested in how much work goes into cultivating the landscape and monitoring /controlling predators such that the birds have cover and the poults arent taken by foxes etc. As an aside lots of other wildlife also benefits from this. Game shooting is actually very diffrent to poultry farming and any comparisons are not really valid in my opinion. On a driven shoot a small percentage of birds aren't killed out right, these are despatached in a humaine method once retrieved if required.
boy said: Not so sure about that. Although yes shooting is fun, and yes I'm a memebr of the BASC.
As the OP has already mentioned the anti shooting people don't seem to be interested in how much work goes into cultivating the landscape and monitoring /controlling predators such that the birds have cover and the poults arent taken by foxes etc. As an aside lots of other wildlife also benefits from this. Game shooting is actually very diffrent to poultry farming and any comparisons are not really valid in my opinion. On a driven shoot a small percentage of birds aren't killed out right, these are despatached in a humaine method once retrieved if required.
The shoot I work ones a small syndicate where the whole day is more than just about shooting birds, the guns all have a good lunch, a bit of banter and a good walk in the fresh air. As the OP has already mentioned the anti shooting people don't seem to be interested in how much work goes into cultivating the landscape and monitoring /controlling predators such that the birds have cover and the poults arent taken by foxes etc. As an aside lots of other wildlife also benefits from this. Game shooting is actually very diffrent to poultry farming and any comparisons are not really valid in my opinion. On a driven shoot a small percentage of birds aren't killed out right, these are despatached in a humaine method once retrieved if required.
Anyway the dogs had a great 8 hour work out with Glen having two nice retrieves.
On the whole everyone had a cracking day.
Ps "only" 50 pheasants shot.
I dont agree with massive 200-300 bird days, ours is a lot smaller and all birds are used for our or dogs consumption.
Pps on average only 38-45% of total birds put down are shot
On our land we now have Black cock back which haven't bred there for over 20 years, and loads of other small song birds that the RSPB say are dieing out in other areas are now thriving due to our land management.
shambolic said:
The shoot I work ones a small syndicate where the whole day is more than just about shooting birds, the guns all have a good lunch, a bit of banter and a good walk in the fresh air.
Anyway the dogs had a great 8 hour work out with Glen having two nice retrieves.
On the whole everyone had a cracking day.
Ps "only" 50 pheasants shot.
I dont agree with massive 200-300 bird days, ours is a lot smaller and all birds are used for our or dogs consumption.
Pps on average only 38-45% of total birds put down are shot
On our land we now have Black cock back which haven't bred there for over 20 years, and loads of other small song birds that the RSPB say are dieing out in other areas are now thriving due to our land management.
I find it peverse that the birds shot have usually been raised by estate staff/gamekeepers form eggs/chicks, housed in pens, handfed and them released to be blasted apart by a someone paying for a days fun.Anyway the dogs had a great 8 hour work out with Glen having two nice retrieves.
On the whole everyone had a cracking day.
Ps "only" 50 pheasants shot.
I dont agree with massive 200-300 bird days, ours is a lot smaller and all birds are used for our or dogs consumption.
Pps on average only 38-45% of total birds put down are shot
On our land we now have Black cock back which haven't bred there for over 20 years, and loads of other small song birds that the RSPB say are dieing out in other areas are now thriving due to our land management.
We used to live near an estate who did just this, and every year dozens of birds were killed on the road adjacent to the estate as they couldnt be bothered to fence it off.
Also its not as if you need to be an ace-hunter to blast away at lumpy birds who arent 100% olympic flyers who have been flushed out of bushes using a cannon with a 3ft spread of shot at 300 yds is it...
Edited by Upatdawn on Sunday 14th October 16:42
shambolic said:
The shoot I work ones a small syndicate where the whole day is more than just about shooting birds, the guns all have a good lunch, a bit of banter and a good walk in the fresh air.
Anyway the dogs had a great 8 hour work out with Glen having two nice retrieves.
On the whole everyone had a cracking day.
Ps "only" 50 pheasants shot.
I dont agree with massive 200-300 bird days, ours is a lot smaller and all birds are used for our or dogs consumption.
Pps on average only 38-45% of total birds put down are shot
On our land we now have Black cock back which haven't bred there for over 20 years, and loads of other small song birds that the RSPB say are dieing out in other areas are now thriving due to our land management.
Shambolic I'm with you all the way on this.Anyway the dogs had a great 8 hour work out with Glen having two nice retrieves.
On the whole everyone had a cracking day.
Ps "only" 50 pheasants shot.
I dont agree with massive 200-300 bird days, ours is a lot smaller and all birds are used for our or dogs consumption.
Pps on average only 38-45% of total birds put down are shot
On our land we now have Black cock back which haven't bred there for over 20 years, and loads of other small song birds that the RSPB say are dieing out in other areas are now thriving due to our land management.
And if its so easy to hit a target with a cannon that has been flushed out by a line of beaters with sticks why are the bags so small. Have you actually tried hitting a clay pigeon never mind a pheasant.
On another point how do the non shooting people stand on shooting vermin like pigeons and corvids? These can do lots of damage to crops.
If the anti shooting people where as vociferous in their condemnation of coursing deer with dogs into the corner of a field I'd be a lot happier.
boy said: If the anti shooting people where as vociferous in their condemnation of coursing deer with dogs into the corner of a field I'd be a lot happier.
No animal should suffer fear, distress or torment just for anothers fun, id have thought that was obvious, assuming we wish to consider ourselves civilised.
Upatdawn said:
boy said: If the anti shooting people where as vociferous in their condemnation of coursing deer with dogs into the corner of a field I'd be a lot happier.
No animal should suffer fear, distress or torment just for anothers fun, id have thought that was obvious, assuming we wish to consider ourselves civilised.ali_kat said:
Upatdawn said:
boy said: If the anti shooting people where as vociferous in their condemnation of coursing deer with dogs into the corner of a field I'd be a lot happier.
No animal should suffer fear, distress or torment just for anothers fun, id have thought that was obvious, assuming we wish to consider ourselves civilised.whoami said:
Why would you think that?
Because I misread fun as food 
However, we (humans & animals) have always hunted for food. It has evolved into more humane methods by those that enjoy it looking for better ie more humane and so effective ways. Lock a vegan in a wooded area. How long before he is almost dead from eating the wrong green thing? How long before he then kills a rabbit? How long before he then devises ways of improving catching & killing & enjoys that thought process?
I could just boil it down to one simple point - there is a reason why certain animals & birds are referred to as Game
Because I'm in a foul mood, here is something else to chew on, kinda radical but heyho, it's how I bait vegans when they go off on one
If you own/use/eat anything made in Asia, then by supporting their exports you condone animal cruelty. China, Japan, Korea etc have the worst records for animal rights, the way they treat thair pets, let alone treat livestock etc is the worst in the world. The only way to prove you are really an animal lover and do not condone cruetly in anyway shape of form is not only boycotting meat & animal by products, but also by boycotting countries that allow animal cruelty (on, and most of Europe & the USA don't have a brilliant record either).
In my humble opinion, that gives you no right to criticise others for enjoying eating meat (or walking their dogs a few times a year & killing some Game for dinner
)Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Whilst some may find distasteful, how is it that different to breeding / farming / other the likes of chickens, lamb, pork, beef for the supermarkets or food ?
Because breeding/killing for food and breeding/killing for fun, are two totally different things. Hunters always seem to argue that point, to justify what they do, but none have ever managed to explain why they actually do it, why they like to kill an animal to death.
They don't do it to put food on the table, even though they may eat their kill after the day is over. And they argue that fact: "oh, we eat it afterwards".
But that is not why they kill animals.
Wilbur Smith gave a fairly good description of the hunters lust in one of his books, as he is actually a big game hunter, but no other hunter I've met ever has, they just give excuses, not reasons.
ali_kat said:
whoami said:
Why would you think that?
Because I misread fun as food However, we (humans & animals) have always hunted for food. It has evolved into more humane methods by those that enjoy it looking for better ie more humane and so effective ways. Lock a vegan in a wooded area. How long before he is almost dead from eating the wrong green thing? How long before he then kills a rabbit? How long before he then devises ways of improving catching & killing & enjoys that thought process?
I could just boil it down to one simple point - there is a reason why certain animals & birds are referred to as Game
Because I'm in a foul mood, here is something else to chew on, kinda radical but heyho, it's how I bait vegans when they go off on one
If you own/use/eat anything made in Asia, then by supporting their exports you condone animal cruelty. China, Japan, Korea etc have the worst records for animal rights, the way they treat thair pets, let alone treat livestock etc is the worst in the world. The only way to prove you are really an animal lover and do not condone cruetly in anyway shape of form is not only boycotting meat & animal by products, but also by boycotting countries that allow animal cruelty (on, and most of Europe & the USA don't have a brilliant record either).
In my humble opinion, that gives you no right to criticise others for enjoying eating meat (or walking their dogs a few times a year & killing some Game for dinner
)King Herald said:
Because breeding/killing for food and breeding/killing for fun, are two totally different things.
In purely ethical terms, I don't think they are. Either it is morally acceptable to put your own species' interest ahead of those of other species, or it isn't. That idea (discriminating in favour of our own species) is at the core of the philosophy of 'animal rights'. Given that species which fail to put their own interests first tend not to last long enough to evolve, I cannot accept that it is morally wrong to discriminate in favour of humans at the expense of other species (for example, by eating them).That does not justify cruelty to other species: I believe that we have a moral duty not to inflict unnecessary suffering on other animals, and I don't think you need to grant 'rights' to animals for that principle to apply. But in that case 'unnecessary' becomes a subjective value judgement which varies from one individual to another. Bottom line: if you don't like the idea of shooting pheasants, don't do it.
ali_kat said:
I know
I nearly quoted Wilbur Smith KH! However, I couldn't remember which book the passage I wanted was in, and would have ended up rereading all of them & forgetting what I was looking for (which might have been a good plan!!)
Elephant Song, at a guess. I nearly quoted Wilbur Smith KH! However, I couldn't remember which book the passage I wanted was in, and would have ended up rereading all of them & forgetting what I was looking for (which might have been a good plan!!)Edit - although I've just read KH's post... I don't think that's the one he's on about.
........ now I think about it more, it's infuriating! Although it could be any one of a number of descriptions of the hunter's lust. There's one where little Xhai kills something just after he's outcast... there's the springbok hunt in one of the early Courtney ones...
Edited by Karyn on Monday 15th October 14:48
Karyn said:
........ now I think about it more, it's infuriating! Although it could be any one of a number of descriptions of the hunter's lust. There's one where little Xhai kills something just after he's outcast... there's the springbok hunt in one of the early Courtney ones...
Or any part of A Time to Die - Sean & TutenkalaGassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff