My mongrel dog worth twice as much as my house
Discussion
I bought a can of vet Kem flea spray online because it was cheaper than we could actually buy it in for from our wholesaler!
I would imagine if we could order with guaranteed next day delivery and with the speed that we can do with our wholesaler and not have to write a px out for every single item we needed we would use online pharmacies as well!
I would imagine if we could order with guaranteed next day delivery and with the speed that we can do with our wholesaler and not have to write a px out for every single item we needed we would use online pharmacies as well!
I think part of the issue could be the quantity that the vet has to buy any medication. For example our vet's normal flea and parasite treatments he really doesn't get on with, Advocate really unsettles him, and Nexgard Spectra, not such a bad reaction, but certainly off colour for a day. Vet was perfectly happy to give us a prescription for something where she would have had to buy a big box, and thankfully he is really happy with it.
All the other stuff, frankly, we are happy to buy at their prices, eg he's a water baby and has suffered from otitis after swimming, we treat him with Otoact, yes it's cheaper from Animed or whoever, but am happy to support that part of the veterinary business model.
It's the same principle as despising folks who go into High St shops for decision making then buy it from Amazon. When it's gone, it's gone. Too many know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
All the other stuff, frankly, we are happy to buy at their prices, eg he's a water baby and has suffered from otitis after swimming, we treat him with Otoact, yes it's cheaper from Animed or whoever, but am happy to support that part of the veterinary business model.
It's the same principle as despising folks who go into High St shops for decision making then buy it from Amazon. When it's gone, it's gone. Too many know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
FiF said:
I think part of the issue could be the quantity that the vet has to buy any medication. For example our vet's normal flea and parasite treatments he really doesn't get on with, Advocate really unsettles him, and Nexgard Spectra, not such a bad reaction, but certainly off colour for a day. Vet was perfectly happy to give us a prescription for something where she would have had to buy a big box, and thankfully he is really happy with it.
All the other stuff, frankly, we are happy to buy at their prices, eg he's a water baby and has suffered from otitis after swimming, we treat him with Otoact, yes it's cheaper from Animed or whoever, but am happy to support that part of the veterinary business model.
It's the same principle as despising folks who go into High St shops for decision making then buy it from Amazon. When it's gone, it's gone. Too many know the cost of everything and value of nothing.
Believe me I understand the value of identical products. And there is no way that I despise my vet, quite the contrary as I am quite happy to pay for the professional services delivered at their going rate. All the other stuff, frankly, we are happy to buy at their prices, eg he's a water baby and has suffered from otitis after swimming, we treat him with Otoact, yes it's cheaper from Animed or whoever, but am happy to support that part of the veterinary business model.
It's the same principle as despising folks who go into High St shops for decision making then buy it from Amazon. When it's gone, it's gone. Too many know the cost of everything and value of nothing.
But like anything else, be it a car, clothing or bread, when the price of a commodity product is doubled by the vendor, its true operational value remains the same to me. Therefore one must question the cost and shop around. I understand margin, value and all that but an apparent over 100% markup is something I cannot support in a competitive market.
One would assume that a vet could buy in at trade cheaper than I could buy at retail... and there must be a number of potential solutions to the lead time issue for a practice should they wish to overcome it and lower their drugs costs to the buyer.
SeeFive said:
Believe me I understand the value of identical products. And there is no way that I despise my vet, quite the contrary as I am quite happy to pay for the professional services delivered at their going rate.
But like anything else, be it a car, clothing or bread, when the price of a commodity product is doubled by the vendor, its true operational value remains the same to me. Therefore one must question the cost and shop around. I understand margin, value and all that but an apparent over 100% markup is something I cannot support in a competitive market.
One would assume that a vet could buy in at trade cheaper than I could buy at retail... and there must be a number of potential solutions to the lead time issue for a practice should they wish to overcome it and lower their drugs costs to the buyer.
I would imagine they make such little money from the meds its not worth their time to shop about. Also you must pay for the convenience of it being there and walking away with the product. I buy from the vet as if value their opinion on what meds will be best for my pet, I want that service to continue so I pay the premium.But like anything else, be it a car, clothing or bread, when the price of a commodity product is doubled by the vendor, its true operational value remains the same to me. Therefore one must question the cost and shop around. I understand margin, value and all that but an apparent over 100% markup is something I cannot support in a competitive market.
One would assume that a vet could buy in at trade cheaper than I could buy at retail... and there must be a number of potential solutions to the lead time issue for a practice should they wish to overcome it and lower their drugs costs to the buyer.
I really dislike how the internet has changed shopping, soon everyone will be buying products exclusively online, something I cannot stand the thought of!
Your assumption that trade CAN but cheaper is also incorrect, I work in building and the customer can buy at the same rate as me if he shops about, I know that landlords cannot buy beer as cheap as we buy it in the supermarkets!
joshcowin said:
I would imagine they make such little money from the meds its not worth their time to shop about. Also you must pay for the convenience of it being there and walking away with the product. I buy from the vet as if value their opinion on what meds will be best for my pet, I want that service to continue so I pay the premium.
I really dislike how the internet has changed shopping, soon everyone will be buying products exclusively online, something I cannot stand the thought of!
Your assumption that trade CAN but cheaper is also incorrect, I work in building and the customer can buy at the same rate as me if he shops about, I know that landlords cannot buy beer as cheap as we buy it in the supermarkets!
Whilst I understand your point and I did say it was an assumption based open my own reseller margin arrangements for products (computer software), and my father (repair garage proprietor) and brother (pub owner) and general understanding of trade arrangements in specific sectors I encounter - again, not vet practice. I really dislike how the internet has changed shopping, soon everyone will be buying products exclusively online, something I cannot stand the thought of!
Your assumption that trade CAN but cheaper is also incorrect, I work in building and the customer can buy at the same rate as me if he shops about, I know that landlords cannot buy beer as cheap as we buy it in the supermarkets!
My customers are shrewd buyers and will buy product anywhere they can if I am not competitive to a minor percentage and still come to us for professional services, which is fine by me. To retain their loyalty on product, I work hard on reseller contracts to make sure that my margins allow me to be competitive on product, attracting business in a cost conscious market - the associated PS is where the margin is for me. If I was 100% above what they could buy it for elsewhere, I would have to stop reselling product as nobody would buy from me.
For renewal medications where sensible pet owners tend to rebuy their pet stock a while before they run out, what is to prevent vet practices buying from the same source as me and applying a reasonable markup stating clearly the lead time for delivery?
Sure, for emergencies, you need the meds quickly and therefore pay a premium for that additional service. For pretty much everything I have needed in a hurry to treat conditions, the vet had it in stock which is a great service and has appropriate value worth paying for alongside their professional services. However, if they are paying over the odds for stock, I feel it is quite daft practice, and accordingly not best service to expect the customer to absorb that cost - unless the vets are forced to buy from a specific cartel style source like your pub example for their brewery ties, or if the online sellers can only sell to end users (no sublicensing etc). If that is not the case and the vets are applying massive markups, then my view still remains that they are exploiting me on products which I can buy identically elsewhere at less than half the cost.
Of course all this additional end user cost will impact insurance premiums (especially for ongoing conditions requiring long term medication) which is where we kinda started with this.
For one offs and emergencies, I pay at the vet. For long term issues, I know I can do far better and there is absolutely no difference in the value I and my animal receives. A pragmatic choice.
To sell vet drugs to vet practices requires a different license than to sell them straight to the public, there are far fewer companies licensed to sell to practices. It would also be impractical to use loads of different suppliers, we need guaranteed next day delivery of a huge variety of different drugs that we rarely use but need access to. We achieve that by using good trustworthy suppliers, that costs money and hence they are not the cheapest.
As a member of the public you can often buy specific drugs cheaper than vets can. For my own dog I write prescriptions and buy all his routine drugs online as it's the cheapest way to do it.
I think there has been for a few years a shift towards charging for vets time rather than augmenting with drug sales. At the end of the day it probably works best out for the general public as it is; if so inclined they can buy a prescription and source the drugs themselves whilst still benefiting from the discounted consultation. It is something that will continue to move online as with most businesses. Vet charging will have to evolve to account for the lost profit from drug sales.
Incidentally I have my dog insured, simply personal preference to pay a small fee monthly than risk a large unexpected bill.
As a member of the public you can often buy specific drugs cheaper than vets can. For my own dog I write prescriptions and buy all his routine drugs online as it's the cheapest way to do it.
I think there has been for a few years a shift towards charging for vets time rather than augmenting with drug sales. At the end of the day it probably works best out for the general public as it is; if so inclined they can buy a prescription and source the drugs themselves whilst still benefiting from the discounted consultation. It is something that will continue to move online as with most businesses. Vet charging will have to evolve to account for the lost profit from drug sales.
Incidentally I have my dog insured, simply personal preference to pay a small fee monthly than risk a large unexpected bill.
I would prefer that the money and resources expended on keeping a 13 year old dog with cancer alive for another year could be spent on something more productive, like operating on a child.
However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
Piersman2 said:
I would prefer that the money and resources expended on keeping a 13 year old dog with cancer alive for another year could be spent on something more productive, like operating on a child.
However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
Thank you for the pointless post, However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
I don't believe any children miss operation slots due to pet operations, the money spent on pet insurance and at vets is people personal money post tax, its like saying 'I would prefer that the money and resources expended on keeping a 13 year old car with an oil leak going for another year could be spent on something more productive, like operating on a child.'
Piersman 2 - just to clarify, people didn't have just a one way trip to the vets before insurance!
I worked before insurance was commonplace. People still paid for the high end treatments that were available at the time but some treatments weren't as accessible because it was often specialised in certain areas of the country and yes high tech facilities come at a cost.
Insurance became more popular as owners realised more could be done to save their much loved pets lives.
People spend thousands on holidays, new cars, home improvements, fashion, personal care etc etc with little criticism. Why is it different when it comes to pets?
I worked before insurance was commonplace. People still paid for the high end treatments that were available at the time but some treatments weren't as accessible because it was often specialised in certain areas of the country and yes high tech facilities come at a cost.
Insurance became more popular as owners realised more could be done to save their much loved pets lives.
People spend thousands on holidays, new cars, home improvements, fashion, personal care etc etc with little criticism. Why is it different when it comes to pets?
Piersman2 said:
I would prefer that the money and resources expended on keeping a 13 year old dog with cancer alive for another year could be spent on something more productive, like operating on a child.
However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
Perhaps, as I've just had to have a 10 year old dog with cancer PTS, I'm feeling a little oversensitive, but I 'would prefer' that you kept your opinions to yourself.However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
moorx said:
Piersman2 said:
I would prefer that the money and resources expended on keeping a 13 year old dog with cancer alive for another year could be spent on something more productive, like operating on a child.
However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
Perhaps, as I've just had to have a 10 year old dog with cancer PTS, I'm feeling a little oversensitive, but I 'would prefer' that you kept your opinions to yourself.However, it's people's own money and they're free to spend it on what they like.
Strange how before the advent of Pet insurance, the normal treatment for an animal was the one way trip for a £50 injection. Upsetting, but at least you could pick up a new puppy or kitten on the way home as an 'upgrade'.
My Vet charged £10 plus change for a few (about 4 or 5 from memory) tablets for our old cat. They were to be broken in 1/4 or something and fed to the cat for a couple of days as the cat had an upset stomach due to another med.
Imagine my surprise to see it was actually Zantac which is ranitidine and can be bought in ASDA for £3 for a 12 pack.
I completely sympathise with you over the Zantac. Occasionally we do prescribe cheap non POM drugs like Zantac and lactulose. There tends to be a "dispensing fee" and then a price per tablet, so for example if the dispensing fee was £6 then a single 1p tablet would be £6.01 and 100 would be £7. You can see how a small number of inexpensive tablets will be disproportionately expensive, perhaps that is something that should be addressed to try and avoid clients feeling ripped off.
I tend to ask people if they have any at home and point out that it is a non POM to give them the choice, most people prefer the convenience of buying it on the spot with a dosing label attached. It always amazes me how many people have lactulose at home and how freely they volunteer the reason that quite frankly I would rather not know...
There is a real danger of confused dosing unless the product is sent home with a label on it though. A lot of human drugs, even over the counter ones, can be tremendously dangerous to cats and dogs at correctly scaled down doses, let alone at the human doses that people seem to think appropriate for an animal that weighs only a fraction of that of the average human.
I tend to ask people if they have any at home and point out that it is a non POM to give them the choice, most people prefer the convenience of buying it on the spot with a dosing label attached. It always amazes me how many people have lactulose at home and how freely they volunteer the reason that quite frankly I would rather not know...
There is a real danger of confused dosing unless the product is sent home with a label on it though. A lot of human drugs, even over the counter ones, can be tremendously dangerous to cats and dogs at correctly scaled down doses, let alone at the human doses that people seem to think appropriate for an animal that weighs only a fraction of that of the average human.
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