Dog breeder - Puppy returned - SOGA?

Dog breeder - Puppy returned - SOGA?

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LimaDelta

Original Poster:

6,508 posts

217 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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Last Sunday we picked up a Lab puppy from a reputable(!) breeder in the N Yorks area. We took this puppy home and in the next four days it twice bit our 3yo daughter on the face (going after her hair I suspect). Fortunately no harm was done, but it was enough for us to rethink the puppy idea for a couple of years. So we decided to do the right thing and return the dog to the breeder.

The breeder contract stated that we could not resell the puppy, and that if returned within 72 hours we would receive a full refund. Since this was after the 72 hours I was told that we would receive "maybe a couple of hundred pounds" (vs 850GBP paid) as the puppy could not now be resold and she would have to keep it.

Imagine our surprise when the puppy was back on Pets4Homes within 24hours!

So the question is - are we entitled to any refund? Is the puppy still our property even though it was returned? Do we have any legal recourse to recover our costs as she has lied and is reselling it?

This has left us with a strong mistrust of breeders now and perhaps any future animal will not be returned - if it had just gone missing at least we would have been refunded in full from the insurers! (only joking, but you get my point!). Surely if the breeders cared about the animals welfare they would incentivise the return and re-homing!

Anyway, a bit annoyed, we still know returning him was the right decision four our family, just annoyed at being lied to.

Any advice?

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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I understand that you did the right thing for the right reasons but you should chalk the £650 down to experience

JDiz

1,070 posts

243 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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Call it an idiot tax, for not realising puppies might want to nip when playing.

LimaDelta

Original Poster:

6,508 posts

217 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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ClaphamGT3 said:
I understand that you did the right thing for the right reasons but you should chalk the £650 down to experience
Which to be honest I would have been quite happy to do had she not lied about not reselling him!

bexVN

14,682 posts

210 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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Have you contacted her about this.

As soon as I saw her claiming she could not resell the pup I am afraid I knew she was talking bks.

The reduced refund after so many days isn't so unusual but the reason she gave was crap and unnecessary. All she had to say is she had this policy to reduce the risk of time wasters (or similar) for this reason it may be worth the call to her to just highlight this but not sure you can expect too much unless she had it in writing that this was the reason for the reduced refund.

Just for info, it is possible to take on pups with very young family members but it can be hard initially, not all pups are quite as nippy around the face but they are nippy!

Lab pups can be especially lively and whilst classed as the best family pet there are other breeds that may suit better.

Hope you get to add a four legged friend in the not too distant future!

phil-sti

2,668 posts

178 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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Lab puppies are very boisterous and do play with their mouths a lot but honestly if you can't have a Labrador around kids then I struggle to think of a better choice.
My lab is 10 months and still plays with his mouth when the kids play with him but he doesn't bite all, in fact they get covered in saliva.

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Saturday 17th June 2017
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phil-sti said:
Lab puppies are very boisterous and do play with their mouths a lot but honestly if you can't have a Labrador around kids then I struggle to think of a better choice.
My lab is 10 months and still plays with his mouth when the kids play with him but he doesn't bite all, in fact they get covered in saliva.
Very much the case with ours. Until he was about one he was very 'mouthy' but seemed to have a heightened sense of how to grip but never bite

Batleyred

689 posts

118 months

Monday 19th June 2017
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I am a breeder of dogs for 20 plus years. By what you described the puppy was being a puppy and not being aggressive. All pups need to be told when they are right and when they are wrong and that will always be the same with every puppy. A simple tap on the nose and a firm no is what we do and works.

Every pup has a different temp but when they are teething they all do the same,Bite. I've 3 pups biting me this minute thinking it is fun.

The be all and end of it is you need to train them out of it and have plenty o patience ,as all pups do bite until they know different.

We had the same with two french bulldog pups what went together. They wanted to return one of the pups due to him play fighting his sister. We agreed to do this minus £800 once we sold the pup again and the remainder back to the owner and this was two weeks after they bought the pups.




anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 19th June 2017
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any small child with a new pet requires constant monitoring, set the ground rules and take care. puppies generally don't come already trained and require some work.
i think you should have resold it whatever she said but now the money has changed hands i really don't think court action is the best solution.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Tuesday 20th June 2017
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The Spruce goose said:
any small child with a new pet requires constant monitoring, set the ground rules and take care. puppies generally don't come already trained and require some work.
i think you should have resold it whatever she said but now the money has changed hands i really don't think court action is the best solution.
Yeah I agree.

Puppies will nip, just need to be told no.

I would have personally kept it but if not then I would have resold it on via Facebook to a friend or family member.

Adz The Rat

13,947 posts

208 months

Tuesday 20th June 2017
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If it had been a Staffy, the tabloids would have had a field day.

CAPP0

19,533 posts

202 months

Tuesday 20th June 2017
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When my dog was a pup he was known as "the land shark". They all do it, and as above you then show them what's right and what's wrong. Your pup had come straight out of a litter where he would have spent most of every day nipping his litter mates in play. You needed to show him the difference between a human and a dog (and a pack leader).

Unfortunately this whole tale is based on your inexperience. That's not a pop, it's just the facts (as you have presented them). If you had asked here when it happened rather than, I'm sorry, taking the knee-jerk route, you'd probably still have a pup who would be a lovely playful little fella now. Would recommend a little more research, and advice-taking, before venturing into dog ownership again!

tonyb1968

1,156 posts

145 months

Tuesday 20th June 2017
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My boy is 6 months old now and he still feels with his teeth, hes nearly there as you teach him to give you a kiss (lick) but if he uses his teeth you pull away, then go back and if he uses his teeth again you pull away, he soon picks it up that licking keeps you there and biting moves you away.

Glasgowrob

3,232 posts

120 months

Tuesday 20th June 2017
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its a completely natural way for pups to learn boundaries generally when growing up with the rest of the litter a rough nip will bring play to a stop and pups learn this way, a new puppy will see kids as just slightly bigger puppies and treat them accordingly.


personally I would suggest doing a lot more research on having a dog before reconsidering another pup or even better look at rehoming an older dog
rescues like one I volunteer with (phoenix French bulldog rescue) are overflowing with well balanced loving older dogs who are desperate for a home)

in regards to your refund did you sign a puppy contract with the breeder if so what does it state?

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Tuesday 20th June 2017
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Adz The Rat said:
If it had been a Staffy, the tabloids would have had a field day.
Do you wonder why? Don't get me wrong I love staffies but they seem to bite a lot more then cockers.

LimaDelta

Original Poster:

6,508 posts

217 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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Glasgowrob said:
in regards to your refund did you sign a puppy contract with the breeder if so what does it state?
As above, full refund before 72 hours, none after as' puppy could not be re-sold'. Day later it was advertised for sale.

chrisga

2,087 posts

186 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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Puppies mouth stuff. Our 19month old collie is affectionately nicknamed sharky, as previous poster. He used to mouth everything when a pup and he still air snaps if you wind him up but wouldn't put his mouth around anything human now as he has been taught from a young age that that is wrong. His default play manouevre with the other dogs is to grab onto their legs or ears with his mouth and try to drag them but never "bites" as such.

I don't know why anyone would think a presumably 8 week and 4 day old lab puppy a) isn't going to potentially nip when playing/testing boundaries in a new scenario while getting wound up by kids and b) isn't re-homable. Not sure why the breeder would lie but you must have figured it would be re-advertised and get snapped up pretty quickly if from a "reputable" breeder that health tests and does everything correctly if you were going to take it back. If the contract has a stated return period and you were outside that it sounds like you might have to chalk that up to experience. Not good form that the breeder lied though, I can't see why they would say that.

If you do try again, do lots more research, look in to training methods for the dog, especially positive reinforcement based methods, not the pack st from Cesar Milan, and try to explain to the kids about how to interact. We had a foster sprollie that had been absolutely ruined by children, apparently they yanked his ears and tail and rode him around to the point where he was petrified if he even heard a child on the TV. If he saw one out he went absolutely nuts so he was always walked in a muzzle just in case!

bexVN

14,682 posts

210 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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Boosted LS1 said:
Adz The Rat said:
If it had been a Staffy, the tabloids would have had a field day.
Do you wonder why? Don't get me wrong I love staffies but they seem to bite a lot more then cockers.
Not true though. In fact as adults my experience is cockers are worse for needing to be muzzled over stuffies when being treated (though not surprisingingly that can vary depending on the area you are in! My sister has just got a staffy pup and he is play biting a lot less than my whippet did as a pup! (and my sister and her husband have 3 young children)

LordHaveMurci

12,034 posts

168 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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Boosted LS1 said:
Do you wonder why? Don't get me wrong I love staffies but they seem to bite a lot more then cockers.
That load od old bks again?

And no, I don't own a Staffie nor do I want to, I had a cocker for nearly 14 years though.

Glasgowrob

3,232 posts

120 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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and to echo the above posters we have a 12 week old Frenchie here, and she mouths everything in site at the moment.

and puppy teeth make a right mess of your favourite shirts too smile








then you get this side of her lol