Dog breeder - Puppy returned - SOGA?

Dog breeder - Puppy returned - SOGA?

Author
Discussion

paintman

7,687 posts

190 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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LimaDelta said:
Glasgowrob said:
in regards to your refund did you sign a puppy contract with the breeder if so what does it state?
As above, full refund before 72 hours, none after as' puppy could not be re-sold'. Day later it was advertised for sale.
Next potential purchaser 'Why did the first buyer return the puppy?
Breeder 'Because he said it bit his child a couple of times'.

If the breeder is truthful it's going to make selling the puppy difficult as few will want to take on a dog that has a history of biting & if they aren't truthful & the pup bites again & it comes out in the wash then they could be hung out to dry financially.

Sadly this is all too common with those that think a puppy and a small child are a good mix for reasons already given. It can be, but it needs a lot of attention & training of both pup AND child!

Until our last puppy - a Golden Retriever - learnt that nipping wasn't acceptable I had more than a few marks to show for it. Milk teeth are like needles!



pikeyboy

2,349 posts

214 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
quotequote all
Puppies play by biting each other. It assumes your daughter would like to play like wise you just needed to train it that this isn't acceptable behaviour.

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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Seems a bit premature sending it back.


Charlie Hoskins

310 posts

83 months

Wednesday 21st June 2017
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All dogs require perseverance in the early stages. It can be challenging and, if you're not the type to relish a challenge, do the decent thing and buy a goldfish.
The more time and attention you invest in bonding, training and exercise, the better mannered and well adjusted the dog.
A bit like kids really.
Between the forums, books and Youtube theres just no excuse. The info is in abundance.
There are some new owners lacking the necessary desire to learn as they go, to see the signs of boredom, neglect and teething, and to respond accordingly, many of whom have a dog simply for the sake of having a dog, status symbols often.
The novelty soon wears off and the animal mooches around looking for something to occupy himself such as chewing the rug or tipping over the kitchen bin.
Cue the hastily written Gumtree ad seeking a 'Forever Home' for our cute 'little boy' aged 4 months.
These people should be visited by the RSPCA, the dog removed and receive a ban 'until they've grown up a bit'.
I've been training gun dogs for a number of years now and like any responsible dog lover, I think much more needs to be done to discourage the poor decisions to 'get a dog' being made in the first instance.
Its a commitment to your new companion. For life.

LordHaveMurci

12,042 posts

169 months

Thursday 22nd June 2017
quotequote all
Charlie Hoskins said:
All dogs require perseverance in the early stages. It can be challenging and, if you're not the type to relish a challenge, do the decent thing and buy a goldfish.
The more time and attention you invest in bonding, training and exercise, the better mannered and well adjusted the dog.
A bit like kids really.
Between the forums, books and Youtube theres just no excuse. The info is in abundance.
There are some new owners lacking the necessary desire to learn as they go, to see the signs of boredom, neglect and teething, and to respond accordingly, many of whom have a dog simply for the sake of having a dog, status symbols often.
The novelty soon wears off and the animal mooches around looking for something to occupy himself such as chewing the rug or tipping over the kitchen bin.
Cue the hastily written Gumtree ad seeking a 'Forever Home' for our cute 'little boy' aged 4 months.
These people should be visited by the RSPCA, the dog removed and receive a ban 'until they've grown up a bit'.
I've been training gun dogs for a number of years now and like any responsible dog lover, I think much more needs to be done to discourage the poor decisions to 'get a dog' being made in the first instance.
Its a commitment to your new companion. For life.
I'm on a few spaniel forums, nearly all the posts on the general forums are by stay at home Mums wondering why their 'adorable fur baby' has started biting or some such. many of the posts are 'my pup pulls on the lead, what can i buy to stop it' or 'my dog hates the car, what pills can I buy to sort it out'. rarely domthey have the dogs best interests at heart, purely selfish as the dogs are cute & cuddly FFS.
Almost every post on the gun dog forum is interesting & often useful so that's the only one I bother with now.


Edited by LordHaveMurci on Thursday 22 June 09:18

Charlie Hoskins

310 posts

83 months

Thursday 22nd June 2017
quotequote all
LordHaveMurci said:
Charlie Hoskins said:
All dogs require perseverance in the early stages. It can be challenging and, if you're not the type to relish a challenge, do the decent thing and buy a goldfish.
The more time and attention you invest in bonding, training and exercise, the better mannered and well adjusted the dog.
A bit like kids really.
Between the forums, books and Youtube theres just no excuse. The info is in abundance.
There are some new owners lacking the necessary desire to learn as they go, to see the signs of boredom, neglect and teething, and to respond accordingly, many of whom have a dog simply for the sake of having a dog, status symbols often.
The novelty soon wears off and the animal mooches around looking for something to occupy himself such as chewing the rug or tipping over the kitchen bin.
Cue the hastily written Gumtree ad seeking a 'Forever Home' for our cute 'little boy' aged 4 months.
These people should be visited by the RSPCA, the dog removed and receive a ban 'until they've grown up a bit'.
I've been training gun dogs for a number of years now and like any responsible dog lover, I think much more needs to be done to discourage the poor decisions to 'get a dog' being made in the first instance.
Its a commitment to your new companion. For life.
I'm on a few spaniel forums, nearly all the posts on the general forums are by stay at home Mums wondering why their 'adorable fur baby' has started biting or some such. Some of the posts are outright ludicrous & show a rescue dog in the making frown
Almost every post on the gun dog forum is interesting & often useful so that's the only one I bother with now.
When our new ESS puppy arrived I took almost a month off to bond and train him to the whistle, the lead, a little retrieving and general do's and don't's. It was great fun and now, at six months he is good as gold, confident and very happy.
Mad as a box of frogs when the mood takes him, especially at the lake, but has almost completely stopped chasing crows, but not pigeons....

iphonedyou

9,250 posts

157 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
Premature sending it back, in my view. But that's all it is, my view.

It'll have come straight from playing with its litter mates, generally via biting. Roxie, our miniature dachshund, would nip a little bit and particularly while teething, understandably enough. It was a case of telling her 'ouch!' when she bit too hard, then telling her 'ouch!' when she bit virtually at all - to get the point across and nothing else, as you could barely feel the touch. Now you could put your finger in her mouth and she'd never do anything more than the gentlest clasp.

Puppies bite. It's what they do.

What we have to do is train them not to.

CAPP0

19,582 posts

203 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.

Charlie Hoskins

310 posts

83 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
Precisely. Says it all, really.

moorx

3,513 posts

114 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
Nope, but a sadly common attitude to animals these days, seeing them as commodities frown

LordHaveMurci

12,042 posts

169 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
moorx said:
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
Nope, but a sadly common attitude to animals these days, seeing them as commodities frown
Just a box ticking exercise for some people sadly. Got 2 kids, detached house, white Audi on lease, what are we missing? Oh, lets get a puppy rolleyes

bexVN

14,682 posts

211 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
LordHaveMurci said:
moorx said:
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
Nope, but a sadly common attitude to animals these days, seeing them as commodities frown
Just a box ticking exercise for some people sadly. Got 2 kids, detached house, white Audi on lease, what are we missing? Oh, lets get a puppy rolleyes
I wondered what that meant!!

It is not a term I would think most people would consider using when talking about getting a pet or returning one. I have had to when being very matter of fact and talking in a legal sense for clients (not very often mind!). Under trading standards etc that is what the purchase of a live animal would come under just like anything else. I don't like it though!

King Herald

23,501 posts

216 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
JDiz said:
Call it an idiot tax, for not realising puppies might want to nip when playing.
And then go get a rescue dog from a kennel, instead of wasting £850 on a fashion accessory whilst also encouraging the puppy factories!

Charlie Hoskins

310 posts

83 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
Gumtree is full of ads for such unwanted purchases.
Many of the advertisers can't even spell the breed of their dog.
A sad symptom of a broken society.

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
Why can't people read the question, rather than random thoughts on puppy behaviour and how the owners cope with it?

To quote the question again -


"The breeder contract stated that we could not resell the puppy, and that if returned within 72 hours we would receive a full refund. Since this was after the 72 hours I was told that we would receive "maybe a couple of hundred pounds" (vs 850GBP paid) as the puppy could not now be resold and she would have to keep it. Imagine our surprise when the puppy was back on Pets4Homes within 24hours!

So the question is - are we entitled to any refund?"

Answer is no. You have been done over and the breeder just wants to make the maxium gain v the minimum loss.

We had this with a Springer we bought for £600. Totally misled after we were told the dog was up for sale again compared to what the original owners gave him back for ! Rather than sending him back to this breeder, who deals with the Royal Family, we instead drove all the way from Sevenoaks to Northumberland to give him a better life with people who are not greedy mofos

You're better off not pandering to this ££££ making machine and get an amiable mongrel from Ireland or Bulgaria. Who will save you ££ in vets bills to boot.... hardy is the poor mongrel.

Once bitten twice shy I believe is the correct expression. Good luck with your new dog. I believe there is a thread on Pistonheads about cheap barges? 10 000 pages long? Applies to dogs too biggrin

Edited by Gandahar on Friday 23 June 20:57

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
moorx said:
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
Nope, but a sadly common attitude to animals these days, seeing them as commodities frown
How can it be a commodity when the poster says "but it was enough for us to rethink the puppy idea for a couple of years."

That sounds sensible to me when you have a small child.

Once again, this question is not about the ins and out of what has transpired before the dog was returned but what happened after. That's the question that is being asked.


LimaDelta

Original Poster:

6,520 posts

218 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
FWIW, animals are covered by the Sale of Goods Act, whether or not you find the terminology distasteful.

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
LimaDelta said:
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
FWIW, animals are covered by the Sale of Goods Act, whether or not you find the terminology distasteful.
What specific clause would you claim on?


LimaDelta

Original Poster:

6,520 posts

218 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
Gandahar said:
LimaDelta said:
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
FWIW, animals are covered by the Sale of Goods Act, whether or not you find the terminology distasteful.
What specific clause would you claim on?
I don't know, I'm a Yachtie, not a contact law expert. However even a cursory Google search indicates they are indeed covered.

Probably does not apply here, unless the breeders claim that the puppy was socialised with young children was disingenuous. Agree more down to training and a moot point really at 8 weeks.

As above though, we are fully aware a dog requires training and supervision, I'm happy to write off the £850 as a learning experience (never deal with puppy farmers again!) but resent being lied to, that's all.

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
quotequote all
LimaDelta said:
Gandahar said:
LimaDelta said:
CAPP0 said:
Is it just me who's also troubled by the thread title referring to the Sale of Goods Act?

He's a living being, not a washing machine.
FWIW, animals are covered by the Sale of Goods Act, whether or not you find the terminology distasteful.
What specific clause would you claim on?
I don't know, I'm a Yachtie, not a contact law expert. However even a cursory Google search indicates they are indeed covered.

Probably does not apply here, unless the breeders claim that the puppy was socialised with young children was disingenuous. Agree more down to training and a moot point really at 8 weeks.

As above though, we are fully aware a dog requires training and supervision, I'm happy to write off the £850 as a learning experience (never deal with puppy farmers again!) but resent being lied to, that's all.
Yes the lying is the worst part, been there done that. Might have to chalk it up I am afraid. I have sent a post to a legal person on another board to see if they can give it a quick look over http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54 to see if I have missed something.

The problem is that legislation is more about making fridges, for instance, not set on fire rather something alive I think. Irony ?








Edited by Gandahar on Friday 23 June 21:21