Training advice
Discussion
Ok. Ill try and be quick. THe issue is jean responds different so Logan is being unduly ‘scared’
Background.
Logan used to play great with other dogs until he injured his leag, we then had a period of about 6 months where he couldn’t go out or when he could he was only alllowed 5 minutes on the lead.
After this he appeared to get lead aggression and one did fight another dog although to be fare that was 50/50.
But I couldn’t trust him he’s a powerful dog so i would call him when other dogs were around.
It also apparently is a bread trait the dingo in them makes them very pack oriented.
Then Jean came on the scene, now jean just wants to play but on the lead she barks at other dogs.
Logan on his own with me doesn’t even look at other dogs but when jean starts its sets him off..... he doesn’t want to play. He means business once set off.
Now the issue. We went to a trainer dog whisperer type guy, what he said made a lot of sense and we were doing most of that anyway,
Logan is hyper sensitive to sound, go near the pan cupboard and he’s off in the garden fireworks he’s near me. Jean runs out to see what fireworks are
So he asked up to carry a bottle with pebbles in, worked instantly on Logan. Too well I only have to reach to my pocket and he’s shaking, he will just sit and look away from other dogs,
I wouldn’t even need to carry the bottle. He now also runs upstairs if i get a crisp packet
He stopped completely being aggressive after two taps on the bottle in one walk and has shown no aggressiveness since.
So the problem jean is a terminator sound squirting water nothing bothers her. These dogs have been used to heard elephants she is fearless.
So how do i get jeans attention without terrifying Logan? She still lunges on the lead towards other dogs, if i bang the bottle she doesn’t care and Logan is already being a good boy so it just scares him and has no effect on her. Even the trainer said she isn’t responding like normal dogs lol. Yep thats jean.
Off lead i can control them both with my voice recall and getting them on lead is excellent.
When we’ve calmed jean down ill go back so we can socialise the dogs progressively, I’m sure i could go back already with Logan
Background.
Logan used to play great with other dogs until he injured his leag, we then had a period of about 6 months where he couldn’t go out or when he could he was only alllowed 5 minutes on the lead.
After this he appeared to get lead aggression and one did fight another dog although to be fare that was 50/50.
But I couldn’t trust him he’s a powerful dog so i would call him when other dogs were around.
It also apparently is a bread trait the dingo in them makes them very pack oriented.
Then Jean came on the scene, now jean just wants to play but on the lead she barks at other dogs.
Logan on his own with me doesn’t even look at other dogs but when jean starts its sets him off..... he doesn’t want to play. He means business once set off.
Now the issue. We went to a trainer dog whisperer type guy, what he said made a lot of sense and we were doing most of that anyway,
Logan is hyper sensitive to sound, go near the pan cupboard and he’s off in the garden fireworks he’s near me. Jean runs out to see what fireworks are
So he asked up to carry a bottle with pebbles in, worked instantly on Logan. Too well I only have to reach to my pocket and he’s shaking, he will just sit and look away from other dogs,
I wouldn’t even need to carry the bottle. He now also runs upstairs if i get a crisp packet
He stopped completely being aggressive after two taps on the bottle in one walk and has shown no aggressiveness since.
So the problem jean is a terminator sound squirting water nothing bothers her. These dogs have been used to heard elephants she is fearless.
So how do i get jeans attention without terrifying Logan? She still lunges on the lead towards other dogs, if i bang the bottle she doesn’t care and Logan is already being a good boy so it just scares him and has no effect on her. Even the trainer said she isn’t responding like normal dogs lol. Yep thats jean.
Off lead i can control them both with my voice recall and getting them on lead is excellent.
When we’ve calmed jean down ill go back so we can socialise the dogs progressively, I’m sure i could go back already with Logan
Edited by Pesty on Tuesday 15th May 10:44
I only have one dog but get to walk many at the local rescue centre.
I would first try leaving Logan at home on a walk or two and concentrate on Jean alone.
Is she the same then?
If yes, maybe she is defending Logan. If no, maybe she is defending you - or is just being Jean!
Is she better on a short lead or longer?
A very short lead can stop lunges, but some are happier with a bit of freedom and don't feel threatened.
Is she better with lead on the collar or harness?
Some pull much more on the harness as they don't feel the restraint.
If she ignores noise, what would take her attention off other dogs?
Maybe treats, favourite toy, breaking her sight line, specific command for just that situation, vibration (not shock) collar?
If she barks and that is what upsets Logan, would a muzzle help?
Just ideas - keep posting the wonderful pictures and videos!
I would first try leaving Logan at home on a walk or two and concentrate on Jean alone.
Is she the same then?
If yes, maybe she is defending Logan. If no, maybe she is defending you - or is just being Jean!
Is she better on a short lead or longer?
A very short lead can stop lunges, but some are happier with a bit of freedom and don't feel threatened.
Is she better with lead on the collar or harness?
Some pull much more on the harness as they don't feel the restraint.
If she ignores noise, what would take her attention off other dogs?
Maybe treats, favourite toy, breaking her sight line, specific command for just that situation, vibration (not shock) collar?
If she barks and that is what upsets Logan, would a muzzle help?
Just ideas - keep posting the wonderful pictures and videos!
We use a harness not sure collar would make a difference but could try it. Half choke chain?
Jean is just Jean, doesn’t matter she just reacts, if I let her off she runs up and sniffs.
As for shock collar it’s something I wanted to avoid but it looks like we may need to use one I’ve heard of ones that squirt water, but again she’d probably like that.
Jean is just Jean, doesn’t matter she just reacts, if I let her off she runs up and sniffs.
As for shock collar it’s something I wanted to avoid but it looks like we may need to use one I’ve heard of ones that squirt water, but again she’d probably like that.
I'd try an ordinary collar to start to see if she responds better to control with it on.
Could be worth trying a Halti type as well.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Company-of-Animals-HH022P...
The vibration collars I was thinking off are like this.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/PetSafe-Vibration-Anti-ba...
I've seen them used for deaf dogs with success but Jean may well ignore - worth trying if you can borrow one!
Could be worth trying a Halti type as well.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Company-of-Animals-HH022P...
The vibration collars I was thinking off are like this.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/PetSafe-Vibration-Anti-ba...
I've seen them used for deaf dogs with success but Jean may well ignore - worth trying if you can borrow one!
Please only ever use a shock collar under the guidance of a trainer who knows how to use them.
They have their usually for sheep worrying scenarios but I just hate how they can be easily used incorrectly (even when with best of intentions) usually they only need wearing a few times if used well.
There are dog trainers who have used them to great success but usually with a minimal use as well. When I have more time I can link you to fb pages that support them.
A vibration one may be worth trying first but she does sound very headstrong.
Have you had a trainer observe her at all?
I agree with walking them separately for a while.
They have their usually for sheep worrying scenarios but I just hate how they can be easily used incorrectly (even when with best of intentions) usually they only need wearing a few times if used well.
There are dog trainers who have used them to great success but usually with a minimal use as well. When I have more time I can link you to fb pages that support them.
A vibration one may be worth trying first but she does sound very headstrong.
Have you had a trainer observe her at all?
I agree with walking them separately for a while.
Edited by bexVN on Wednesday 16th May 08:37
We have a shock collar that makes a warning sound and has 10 settings for shock.We used this with Grizz, after i had tried it on myself. It served its purpose(in fact he was happy to wear it as he understood he was going for a walk off lead)i'm sure you could borrow it .
If you meet someone when Jean is off lead and she is ok,what happens if you put her on lead?
If you meet someone when Jean is off lead and she is ok,what happens if you put her on lead?
megamaniac said:
We have a shock collar that makes a warning sound and has 10 settings for shock.We used this with Grizz, after i had tried it on myself. It served its purpose(in fact he was happy to wear it as he understood he was going for a walk off lead)i'm sure you could borrow it .
If you meet someone when Jean is off lead and she is ok,what happens if you put her on lead?
Off lead she will bark and bark then run up stand like a statue for a few seconds then sniff. If you meet someone when Jean is off lead and she is ok,what happens if you put her on lead?
And then play although she does play rough which many other dog owners don’t appreciate so I call her back.
I control Logan first which is easy off lead. In fact they both know if we run into dogs in the wild unexpectedly to come to me before I shout them most times as they will usualy see the other dogs first.
If a little hunting type dog apPears out of the brush like sometimes happens when I’m In the middle of nowhere wooded areas mainly ( don’t what they are doing poaching possibly but around here they just let them off) if they appear close to Logan he will stop and look at me as if asking what to do. I have time to call him back n that moment, he hates noise and hates when I use the voice it will stop him in his tracks and he comes back.
That halty and vibration collar look interesting cheap enough to try on jean these dogs are tough I’m pretty sure it will just get her attention rather than hurt her.
She runs full speed into Walls and doesn’t care.
Edit thanks for the offer just ordered the vibration collar and halti. Logan mainly walks nice on the lead. He’s no bother at all really.
Edited by Pesty on Wednesday 16th May 17:00
If she's not aggressive off lead,i would think she is either nervous or protecting you. From what you've said about her she isn't nervous so she must think she's protecting you.
Can you distract her with food? Grizz loves cocktail sausages and cooked liver.When he does good work at agility Carol always says "yes" to him and treats him, he used to be very reactive but is much better now.
You could try a similar thing with Jean so when she looks at you she gets rewarded.
Can you distract her with food? Grizz loves cocktail sausages and cooked liver.When he does good work at agility Carol always says "yes" to him and treats him, he used to be very reactive but is much better now.
You could try a similar thing with Jean so when she looks at you she gets rewarded.
We’ve been trying treats but not really their motivation plus I think there is an element of rewarding bad behaviour barks a bit look at you instead get a treat. Not sure I’m smart enough to outsmart these dogs.
They both do respond to a tennis ball all fades away to nothing you could set a bomb off by Logan when he’s focused on a tennis ball in my hand.
But it’s not really practical to keep bring a ball out in the pavement etc.
Works on the field like a dream.
They both do respond to a tennis ball all fades away to nothing you could set a bomb off by Logan when he’s focused on a tennis ball in my hand.
But it’s not really practical to keep bring a ball out in the pavement etc.
Works on the field like a dream.
king for running away in the first placeThe frustration is that I know a trainer that I am so certain could help you but you are so far away (he is Devon based) you could try messaging him via fb. He is an ex police dog handler and basically has yet to find a behaviour he could not improve upon and is used to dealing with stubborn/ strong minded dogs. He works on positive training but also correcting behaviour (not with punishment) as reward only based training has many pitfalls.
I have known him for many many years. Oh and he is not anti shock collars (used to be) but he would tell you honestly if he thought vibration collars or shock collar would work (he tends to only use for sheep worrying or horrendous recall issues)
Anyway his fb is Evolution Dog Training and he is called Edward Meakin. I can't offer his services on his behalf foc as that isn't my place to do so but he may be prepared to offer you some guidance if he thinks he can without seeing Jean!
I have known him for many many years. Oh and he is not anti shock collars (used to be) but he would tell you honestly if he thought vibration collars or shock collar would work (he tends to only use for sheep worrying or horrendous recall issues)
Anyway his fb is Evolution Dog Training and he is called Edward Meakin. I can't offer his services on his behalf foc as that isn't my place to do so but he may be prepared to offer you some guidance if he thinks he can without seeing Jean!
Thanks.
Took them out tonight as usual to the race course always dogs around. Both completely ignored one dog that was within usual Jean reaction distance she did glance but that was it.
So improvement is happening I’m not going to start counting my chickens. Sombody said above they think they might be protecting me.
I think she thinks she’s protecting Logan. He really did quite visibly take beta dig place when she came along, I don’t think she gave him any choice.
Only thing he won’t give over to her is his yellow ball.
Took them out tonight as usual to the race course always dogs around. Both completely ignored one dog that was within usual Jean reaction distance she did glance but that was it.
So improvement is happening I’m not going to start counting my chickens. Sombody said above they think they might be protecting me.
I think she thinks she’s protecting Logan. He really did quite visibly take beta dig place when she came along, I don’t think she gave him any choice.
Only thing he won’t give over to her is his yellow ball.
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