Rescue Dog Dilemma

Author
Discussion

Doofus

Original Poster:

25,732 posts

172 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
We've rehomed a dog from Dog's Trust, and had him since Monday.

They said he was a crossbreed with no history, but we've found him to be good natured, housetrained, quiet, eminently trainable and an all round fantastic dog.

Except. If he gets a toy - any toy, it sends him into a frenzy spiral, where he just gets more and more hyper, and it's really hard to bring him back down again.

We also suspect he's a terrier cross, because any fluffy toy (or fluffy tennis ball or fluffy cushion) is destroyed in minutes. Completely destroyed.

We are animal lovers, and if we commit, we believe we have made a commitment. However, we are really thinking that the terrier temperament isn't one we can live with because we're cat lovers. We lost our two 17 year-olds within three weeks of each other earlier this year, and we will want more cats in the future.

This hyper-excitement is also threatening to be a problem, because the only way we have of bringing him down is to ignore him, which works until we make eye-contact again, and he gets re-excited. He seriously can't have any toys. He won't be distracted with a Kong, because he gets bored in about 30 seconds. He is great at being alone, but if somebody is in the room (or a nearby room) he's all over them.

My wife is in tears at admitting out loud that she thinks we should take him back, and I feel really bad too.

At the moment, he is bouncing between the two of us, jumping into our laps and demanding 100% attention. I've had to shut myself away to type this post.

He is such a lovely dog and it would break our hearts to give him back, but how do we deal with his frenzy spirals? How do we get him to reduce his neediness (I'm assuming this is just a matrer of time/trust), and can his hunt/kill tendencies be managed - if indeed that's what he has?

The chap at the rehoming centre said - as we were leaving the building to go home - "I reckon there's some Patterdale in there". We've found a lot of conflicting information about the temperament of a Patterdale.

Really need some help and advice please.




PositronicRay

26,952 posts

182 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
Dogs trust have a help line, call it. Help over the telephone, one to one at a centre or behaviourist can come to you.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
How much exercise is he getting?

Doofus

Original Poster:

25,732 posts

172 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
Dogs Trust told us to keep him in for at least seven days. In fact, he's had the run of the house and garden, and has been in the garden with us for the best part of six hours today, playing, sniffing, digging, watching us do the gardening and so on. It drove him into a frenzy from which he won't calm down.

We already spoke to the helpline, and the behavourist is due to call us tomorrow. I'm a bit skeptical, because we had out first follow-up call after 48 hours which was apparently to check how things were going.

In fact, the conversation was more "Is he dead? Is he dying? Does he look like he might die? 'Kay bye."

So at this point, I place more faith in a bunch of strangers off the internet smile

pidsy

7,958 posts

156 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
It’s obviously behavioural- if dogs trust don’t send you theirs, there are plenty of very good behaviourists out there.

Perseverance will be key but it should be something you can train out of him.

It happens a lot. This was Lou after being left alone with a new bed for half an hour:


PositronicRay

26,952 posts

182 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
Doofus said:
Dogs Trust told us to keep him in for at least seven days. In fact, he's had the run of the house and garden, and has been in the garden with us for the best part of six hours today, playing, sniffing, digging, watching us do the gardening and so on. It drove him into a frenzy from which he won't calm down.

We already spoke to the helpline, and the behavourist is due to call us tomorrow. I'm a bit skeptical, because we had out first follow-up call after 48 hours which was apparently to check how things were going.

In fact, the conversation was more "Is he dead? Is he dying? Does he look like he might die? 'Kay bye."

So at this point, I place more faith in a bunch of strangers off the internet smile
The behaviourists are all qualified mostly from Bristol University, based on John Bradshaw's techniques. Your dog is very likely stressed, maybe not getting enough sleep (they need 16hrs per day) people on the internet can give you all sorts of useful suggestions, but they haven't read your dogs body language, seen the family & and you don't know them from Adam.

Edited by PositronicRay on Thursday 15th August 19:05

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
Sorry for the plug but PH behaviourist, not cheap, but can be covered by your insurance.

Worth a call at least? https://alphadogbehaviour.co.uk

Doofus

Original Poster:

25,732 posts

172 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
The behaviourists are all qualified mostly from Bristol University, based on John Bradshaw's techniques. Your dog is very likely stressed, maybe not getting enough sleep (they need 16hrs per day) people on the internet can give you all sorts of useful suggestions, but they haven't read your dogs body language, seen the family & and you don't know them from Adam.

Edited by PositronicRay on Thursday 15th August 19:05
That's all true, and sitting quietly in the dining room (where he already knows he's not allowed), we've been talking more rationally. He's been a complete fkpig today and, never having had kids, we're feeling out of our depth. smile

We are reasonably confident we can manage the excitement. Timeouts seem to be fairly effective, but the terrier behaviour is coming to the fore, and that's frightening my wife because of the cat thing.

I've said that we made a commitment, so that means we are committed until we know we can't, not until we decide we don't want to, and when the clouds clear, we recognise that it's been four days and he's been through a helluva lot more stress than us.

But even so; fk me, he can be a pain in the arse smile


PositronicRay

26,952 posts

182 months

Thursday 15th August 2019
quotequote all
Routine is important, you'll be seeing a few coping techniques and behavioural changes (not just canine ones) whilst you get used to one another.

Good luck.

Autopilot

1,298 posts

183 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
Doofus said:
However, we are really thinking that the terrier temperament isn't one we can live with because we're cat lovers. We lost our two 17 year-olds within three weeks of each other earlier this year, and we will want more cats in the future
Lots of things for consideration here!

I've had a number of rescue dogs and foster dogs (all Dobermanns) and they all come with different baggage and odd behaviours. It's common practice for a dog rescue to state whether a dog can be homed with children, cats, another dog etc. Did they not tell you what the dog was like with cats? Unknown history is one thing, but letting a dog out without knowing a thing is just irresponsible and asking for the dog to be brought back.

I'm a little baffled as to why if you couldn't cope with the Terrier temperament would you go out and get a Terrier?

You've only had the dog 4 days so everything is new and exciting and the dog doesn't know all the rules yet, it takes time. Nothing really changes overnight with dogs so you do have to be extremely patient. From your opening description, it sounds to me like you have an amazing dog and will just take a bit of time. What happens when you take the toy off the dog? Does he calm down or remain hyper?

My hyper-dog needs to be distracted when doing unwanted behaviours. In fact, being toy-obsessed is a good training and control mechanism do dare say you can use toys as reward during his training. Incidentally, the distraction technique I use with my hyper-dog is training! When he's doing something I don't like, he gets called in to heel and put him in training mode, do a few bits with him, only a minute or two, then reward.

I'd say you probably just ned to give him a chance, he sounds like a great dog!

Doofus

Original Poster:

25,732 posts

172 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
Autopilot said:
Lots of things for consideration here!

I've had a number of rescue dogs and foster dogs (all Dobermanns) and they all come with different baggage and odd behaviours. It's common practice for a dog rescue to state whether a dog can be homed with children, cats, another dog etc. Did they not tell you what the dog was like with cats? Unknown history is one thing, but letting a dog out without knowing a thing is just irresponsible and asking for the dog to be brought back.
They said nothing about kids, cats, or other dogs. Except that, in the centre, he was wary of other dogs.

Autopilot said:
I'm a little baffled as to why if you couldn't cope with the Terrier temperament would you go out and get a Terrier?
We didn't intend to get a terrier, and we didn't know he was a terrier untio that parting shot from the chap at the homing centre. He doesn't look like a 'terrier', but we'd never heard of a Patterdale, which come in many different shapes and sizes. He looks like a small lab/collie cross.

Autopilot said:
What happens when you take the toy off the dog? Does he calm down or remain hyper?
It depends on the toy. If is a ball, then he doesn't calm down. If it's a pull toy, then he's not bothered.

Autopilot said:
My hyper-dog needs to be distracted when doing unwanted behaviours. In fact, being toy-obsessed is a good training and control mechanism do dare say you can use toys as reward during his training. Incidentally, the distraction technique I use with my hyper-dog is training! When he's doing something I don't like, he gets called in to heel and put him in training mode, do a few bits with him, only a minute or two, then reward.
He is easily distracted. For example, this morning he wouldn't get up for breakfast. Eventually we persuaded him, and he ate half of it and went into the garden, then he came back and I sat with him on the sofa, and after three or four minutes, he began jumping on me, kicking me and trying to eat the cushions. I left him alone, and five minutes later, he 's sitting quietly on our bed looking out of the window.

If he's on his own, he's as good as gold. If one of us is in the room, he demands 100% attention. If he doesn't get it, he goes bonkers, and when he does get it, he goes bonkers.

When he is hyper, he won't be disrracted. The only thing we can do is give him a timeout and leave him alone. Then he calms d0wn, until we come back again.

I'vebeen working with him this morning on settling when he's hyper and it seems to work until you reward him, verbally or with a treat. As soon as he gets that reward, he gets over excited again.

Baby steps - he's trying to be good. When I had a dog many years ago, over-excitement was cured with a walk or a run in the garden. With this dog, that just makes it worse...

Edited by Doofus on Friday 16th August 10:58

Blackpuddin

16,408 posts

204 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
I wonder if in a previous life he was left alone all day and, when the owner came back, over-delivered on the welcome to try and get the owner not to go out all day.

moorx

3,480 posts

113 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
As others have suggested, routine will be very important. It is early days and everything will be very new to him. Do you know how long he was in kennels?

He does have a look of Patterdale or Patterdate cross (they do vary a lot in looks and size), but I wouldn't have said that having a terrier automatically precludes future cat ownership. Having said that, did you ask the rescue for a cat-friendly dog?

Is it only the cat aspect that worries you, or are there other aspects of the terrier temperament that you are not happy with (whilst recognising that not all terriers are the same)?

Most reputable rescues will conduct cat tests - I would have thought Dogs Trust would if you ask.

Good luck.

PositronicRay

26,952 posts

182 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
Dogs and terriers can get along with cats. Our dogs don't, but little exposure, friends dogs, westie, labradoodle x 2, yorkie, chug (don't ask) all do and have lived with them.


ETA and a couple of pointers, but one only tolerates his own cat.


Edited by PositronicRay on Friday 16th August 19:09

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
chug (don't ask)
Ha ha, we've had ours 6 weeks now, fantastic little dog from a rescue, loves our cats.

Doofus

Original Poster:

25,732 posts

172 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
moorx said:
As others have suggested, routine will be very important. It is early days and everything will be very new to him. Do you know how long he was in kennels?
As per around 90% of Dog's Trust dogs (or so it seems), he came from Ireland. Entered their system on 17th Juy, and arrived in Kenilworth on 26th, so not long in the system. He was already castrated, and as I have said, is house trained and generally incredibly well behaved, so he's had a home in the past. I accidentaly bonked him on the head with a cushion today, and he nearly shat himself, so I suspect he's had some harsh treatment at some point.

moorx said:
He does have a look of Patterdale or Patterdate cross (they do vary a lot in looks and size), but I wouldn't have said that having a terrier automatically precludes future cat ownership. Having said that, did you ask the rescue for a cat-friendly dog?
They were well aware of what we were looking for, and wouldn't even let us look at two other dogs because of the cat thing. Apparently Patterdales can be incessant barkers, and this one doesn't make a sound. Apart from snoring, and he barked just once at his reflection in a mirror. Next door's yappy thing kicked off through the fence today, and whilst he was interested, he didn't make a sound in response.
moorx said:
Is it only the cat aspect that worries you...?
Yes.

moorx said:
Most reputable rescues will conduct cat tests - I would have thought Dogs Trust would if you ask.
We'll ask the behaviourist about the cat test. So far, he doesn't appear to have even noticed next door's cat, which was in the farden this afternoon.

dave_s13

13,813 posts

268 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all


Our bedlington terrier and our cat. Best mates!

We did have the cat 1st though and then got Mabel as a puppy so she's been brought up with Mick. She will chase down any strange cats. But, terriers and cats can live together happily.

Doofus

Original Poster:

25,732 posts

172 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
dave_s13 said:


Our bedlington terrier and our cat. Best mates!

We did have the cat 1st though and then got Mabel as a puppy so she's been brought up with Mick. She will chase down any strange cats. But, terriers and cats can live together happily.
Thank you smile


PositronicRay

26,952 posts

182 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
Doofus said:
As per around 90% of Dog's Trust dogs (or so it seems),
Without a ready supply of Irish dogs, dogs trust would exist in the form it is today.

We've had 3, all Irish, one from Kenilworth 2 from Evesham.

Doofus

Original Poster:

25,732 posts

172 months

Friday 16th August 2019
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
Without a ready supply of Irish dogs, dogs trust would exist in the form it is today.
I've kind of assumed that's their business model. If you mention to any of the staff, they all claim it's just coincidence, so I suspect a massive cover up. scratchchin