Leaseholder refusing permission for our dog
Discussion
My girlfriend and I moved in to our apartment in March just before lockdown started. On the initial viewings we commented on how suitable it was for a dog and that we were looking forward to getting one. The letting agent agreed with the comment, moving on we decided to go ahead and went through the process of sorting out the lease and moved in.
A week or so after the move we requested permission to have a dog through the agent as required by the terms of our contract which was agreed, in writing. Mid-April we picked up Piper, a beautiful Hungarian Vizsla.
Within a week a 'kind' neighbour pointed out that the leasehold did not allow dogs to live here. The same evening we received an enquiring email from the letting agent.
It turns out the owner wasn't aware and the letting agent didn't avail themselves of this information and inform the owner.
The letting agent have tried to persuade the leaseholders to give dispensation as we have our own basement flat entrance and private good sized garden. However it doesn't appear that this is going to change and we will probably be served 2 months notice soon to have us out after 6 months which is really rather inconvenient.
Any advice for us? We haven't breached contact, our landlord has. The contract is for 2 years but with an option for either party to serve 2 months notice to ensure a minimum 6 months residency. A very frustrating situation.
A week or so after the move we requested permission to have a dog through the agent as required by the terms of our contract which was agreed, in writing. Mid-April we picked up Piper, a beautiful Hungarian Vizsla.
Within a week a 'kind' neighbour pointed out that the leasehold did not allow dogs to live here. The same evening we received an enquiring email from the letting agent.
It turns out the owner wasn't aware and the letting agent didn't avail themselves of this information and inform the owner.
The letting agent have tried to persuade the leaseholders to give dispensation as we have our own basement flat entrance and private good sized garden. However it doesn't appear that this is going to change and we will probably be served 2 months notice soon to have us out after 6 months which is really rather inconvenient.
Any advice for us? We haven't breached contact, our landlord has. The contract is for 2 years but with an option for either party to serve 2 months notice to ensure a minimum 6 months residency. A very frustrating situation.
KrazyIvan said:
Did the letting agent get back to you on your request before you got your dog?
This will help, but ultimately you'll be moving out, however if you have written agreement to have a dog from your landlord / letting agent, then you have a case for claiming expenses from them - it will also make any eviction proceedings a longer process....Most leasehold flats will have a no pets clause - many will ignore it, but if someone complains, then the management company will usually act. How long any eviction takes is a different question though.
Jakarta said:
My girlfriend and I moved in to our apartment in March just before lockdown started. On the initial viewings we commented on how suitable it was for a dog and that we were looking forward to getting one. The letting agent agreed with the comment, moving on we decided to go ahead and went through the process of sorting out the lease and moved in.
A week or so after the move we requested permission to have a dog through the agent as required by the terms of our contract which was agreed, in writing. Mid-April we picked up Piper, a beautiful Hungarian Vizsla.
Within a week a 'kind' neighbour pointed out that the leasehold did not allow dogs to live here. The same evening we received an enquiring email from the letting agent.
It turns out the owner wasn't aware and the letting agent didn't avail themselves of this information and inform the owner.
The letting agent have tried to persuade the leaseholders to give dispensation as we have our own basement flat entrance and private good sized garden. However it doesn't appear that this is going to change and we will probably be served 2 months notice soon to have us out after 6 months which is really rather inconvenient.
Any advice for us? We haven't breached contact, our landlord has. The contract is for 2 years but with an option for either party to serve 2 months notice to ensure a minimum 6 months residency. A very frustrating situation.
Why do you believe that the landlord has breached the terms of the contract?A week or so after the move we requested permission to have a dog through the agent as required by the terms of our contract which was agreed, in writing. Mid-April we picked up Piper, a beautiful Hungarian Vizsla.
Within a week a 'kind' neighbour pointed out that the leasehold did not allow dogs to live here. The same evening we received an enquiring email from the letting agent.
It turns out the owner wasn't aware and the letting agent didn't avail themselves of this information and inform the owner.
The letting agent have tried to persuade the leaseholders to give dispensation as we have our own basement flat entrance and private good sized garden. However it doesn't appear that this is going to change and we will probably be served 2 months notice soon to have us out after 6 months which is really rather inconvenient.
Any advice for us? We haven't breached contact, our landlord has. The contract is for 2 years but with an option for either party to serve 2 months notice to ensure a minimum 6 months residency. A very frustrating situation.
Some agents will say anything to get the deal and commission. I was shown around a flat a few years ago accompanied by my dog. We were thinking of it as a holiday bolthole that we could also let out, the agent knew this. Later in the day we spoke to a neighbour in the block who told us that the lease stated no dogs and no short term holiday letting, he also mentioned that the agent knew this as a previous deal had fallen through for those reasons and the leaseholder was selling because they had got a dog and the neighbours (he) had complained.
The flats are leased on the basis of no pets - I suspect you signed a contract with the freeholder on that basis. Other residents will have signed on the same basis, being pet free could have been a consideration for them in entering into that contract. We already know that one other resident is not happy with you having a dog in your flat. If the freeholder concedes and allows you to keep the dog in the flat then they are opening themselves up to issues with other residents. Why would they? Would you in the same situation?
That puts you in an awkward situation. I would try and make it the agents problem, say that you are now in an untenable position and will face expenses due to their actions in letting you believe (in writing) that you could ignore the no dogs clause. Be clear that you will pursue them for costs should you be forced to move on or not have the dog anymore. In reality though, I’m not sure I would want to get into a potentially costly legal battle with them.
Unfortunately, you may end up having to chalk this one down to experience.
The flats are leased on the basis of no pets - I suspect you signed a contract with the freeholder on that basis. Other residents will have signed on the same basis, being pet free could have been a consideration for them in entering into that contract. We already know that one other resident is not happy with you having a dog in your flat. If the freeholder concedes and allows you to keep the dog in the flat then they are opening themselves up to issues with other residents. Why would they? Would you in the same situation?
That puts you in an awkward situation. I would try and make it the agents problem, say that you are now in an untenable position and will face expenses due to their actions in letting you believe (in writing) that you could ignore the no dogs clause. Be clear that you will pursue them for costs should you be forced to move on or not have the dog anymore. In reality though, I’m not sure I would want to get into a potentially costly legal battle with them.
Unfortunately, you may end up having to chalk this one down to experience.
HappySilver said:
The flats are leased on the basis of no pets - I suspect you signed a contract with the freeholder on that basis. Other residents will have signed on the same basis, being pet free could have been a consideration for them in entering into that contract. We already know that one other resident is not happy with you having a dog in your flat. If the freeholder concedes and allows you to keep the dog in the flat then they are opening themselves up to issues with other residents. Why would they? Would you in the same situation?
That puts you in an awkward situation. I would try and make it the agents problem, say that you are now in an untenable position and will face expenses due to their actions in letting you believe (in writing) that you could ignore the no dogs clause. Be clear that you will pursue them for costs should you be forced to move on or not have the dog anymore. In reality though, I’m not sure I would want to get into a potentially costly legal battle with them.
The flat would have been purchased on a leasehold basis - the owner would have signed the contract. Said owner would now be the landlord in this.That puts you in an awkward situation. I would try and make it the agents problem, say that you are now in an untenable position and will face expenses due to their actions in letting you believe (in writing) that you could ignore the no dogs clause. Be clear that you will pursue them for costs should you be forced to move on or not have the dog anymore. In reality though, I’m not sure I would want to get into a potentially costly legal battle with them.
OP is the tenant who has rented the flat & therefore has no direct contract with the freeholder.
It very much depends what you have in writing between tenant & landlord as to who is at fault & covers unforeseen expenses.
Ah, I misread I thought they were the leaseholder.
If the contract is with the agency and the agency have said they can have a dog then I stand by my suggestion of making it the agents problem to solve or to cover any losses. They have cocked-up, probably in chasing the commission, and so should either resolve or cover the OPs costs. I doubt they will do the latter though.
At the end of the day it comes down to what the various contracts say and which trumps what.
If the contract is with the agency and the agency have said they can have a dog then I stand by my suggestion of making it the agents problem to solve or to cover any losses. They have cocked-up, probably in chasing the commission, and so should either resolve or cover the OPs costs. I doubt they will do the latter though.
At the end of the day it comes down to what the various contracts say and which trumps what.
HappySilver said:
Ah, I misread I thought they were the leaseholder.
If the contract is with the agency and the agency have said they can have a dog then I stand by my suggestion of making it the agents problem to solve or to cover any losses. They have cocked-up, probably in chasing the commission, and so should either resolve or cover the OPs costs. I doubt they will do the latter though.
At the end of the day it comes down to what the various contracts say and which trumps what.
Gosh.If the contract is with the agency and the agency have said they can have a dog then I stand by my suggestion of making it the agents problem to solve or to cover any losses. They have cocked-up, probably in chasing the commission, and so should either resolve or cover the OPs costs. I doubt they will do the latter though.
At the end of the day it comes down to what the various contracts say and which trumps what.
This is how it works:
The landlord is the leaseholder. He may or may not own a share of the freehold, but it's irrelevant.
The agent is an AGENT for the landlord.
The contract is between the landlord and the tenant.
If the tenancy agreement says that the tenant will ask permission before keeping a dog, then that is what they need to do. If the landlord says no, and the tenant keeps a dog, the tenant is in breach of contract.
Any amount of wishful thinking or posting pictures of the dog won't change that.
I’m not sure we can say it as simple as that, the contract could be with the agency as that could be managing the property on behalf of the landlord. I’ve certainly been party to one of those albeit may years ago. I cannot see why the agency would agree permission for them to have a dog if they were not at least party to the rental contract. OP please can you clarify the contract situation?
m_cozzy said:
Time to move then or get rid of the dog. Nobody wants a bloody yip yip yip yip yip yap yap yapping dog living near them to be honest with you.
Well, you're a complete barrel of laughs aren't you? What on earth makes you think that the dog is a yappy t
t? I assume you must live within earshot?So said:
Why do you believe that the landlord has breached the terms of the contract?
They are subject to the contract with the leashold, they are the party that has given me permission to have a dog in the property as per my contract with them. I do not have a a contract with the leasholder therefore I cannot personally be in breach of a contract I am not party to, nor obliged to be aware of the content.catweasle said:
Is your landlord also the freeholder of the whole building?
No they are not, the properties in question is a string of Georgian terraces that were converted in the mid-90's to apartments. The particularly helpful neighbour also had the terms of the leasehold amended so that no resident could have hard flooring by virtue of the fact she could hear people walking around. The terrace is about 100m long and hers is at one end. She is proving to be just the sort of neighbour I would prefer not to live near.Jakarta said:
So said:
Why do you believe that the landlord has breached the terms of the contract?
They are subject to the contract with the leashold, they are the party that has given me permission to have a dog in the property as per my contract with them. I do not have a a contract with the leasholder therefore I cannot personally be in breach of a contract I am not party to, nor obliged to be aware of the content.So said:
Gosh.
This is how it works:
The landlord is the leaseholder. He may or may not own a share of the freehold, but it's irrelevant.
The agent is an AGENT for the landlord.
The contract is between the landlord and the tenant.
If the tenancy agreement says that the tenant will ask permission before keeping a dog, then that is what they need to do. If the landlord says no, and the tenant keeps a dog, the tenant is in breach of contract.
Any amount of wishful thinking or posting pictures of the dog won't change that.
I assume you only read the parts of the OP that support your statement and not the part that stated permission must be sought before any pets are permitted, which was duly requested and received before a dog became resident in the property? This is how it works:
The landlord is the leaseholder. He may or may not own a share of the freehold, but it's irrelevant.
The agent is an AGENT for the landlord.
The contract is between the landlord and the tenant.
If the tenancy agreement says that the tenant will ask permission before keeping a dog, then that is what they need to do. If the landlord says no, and the tenant keeps a dog, the tenant is in breach of contract.
Any amount of wishful thinking or posting pictures of the dog won't change that.
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