Nervous / Anxious Dog - help needed

Nervous / Anxious Dog - help needed

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Challo

Original Poster:

10,043 posts

154 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
Im looking for some advice / tips to help a nervous dog.

We have a 1 year old Spring X called Aubrey who we have had since 12 weeks old. The issue is when we are at home or outside on walks he can be very nervous / anxious which can be seen as aggression towards people and other dogs.

At home: It seems anything can set him off barking and getting himself worked up. Car doors, delivery vans, doorbell ringing. Also sometimes the TV set's him off and he can start loudly barking. In the evening we have to limit what we watch as beeps from the TV set him off.

We have managed to kerb it a little bit by having a tennis ball handy or treats to occupy him and get his attention. This ok to a point, but not so fun when your all settled and for no reason he starts barking. I'm sure our neighbours love us. haha! Also we have a bed for him under the stairs, so he is told to get in his bed and he calms down after a while.


On walks: off the lead he can bark a little when confronting dogs and owners but because he is in control of himself (i.e. can escape) he tends to be ok. Its when he is on the lead he can be a nightmare. Occasionally he will see a dog and be fine, but majority of the time he goes ballistic. Barking constantly and lunges towards them. This is him being scared, but it can look to be aggressive and scares other owners. Also if he sees a cat he loses his mind and its difficult to control him. Tries to drag me or my partner across the road to get to the cat.

We can manage the situation again with a ball or treats if I get his attention before he realises, but if he has spotted the cat / dog its difficult to calm him down. The issue is compounded by the fact he has an older brother who i think he feeding off his brother and if he see's Aubrey barking he tries to protect him and then you have two dogs barking and being difficult to control.

We have a Halti Head Harness which I'm going to try out at the weekend and see if that helps control him a little more. Also i have reached out to the trainer we use, but due to lockdown they are only doing Zoom sessions, and they are not cheap. If I'm spending that money id rather wait till for a F2F session. She has advised to avoid situations as much as possible to not confirm to the dog the behaviour is normal.

I know the correct response is to see a behaviourist, but while we are in lockdown have you have any similar experiences and tips I could try?

Cheers

Edited by Challo on Friday 15th January 16:24

A205GTI

750 posts

165 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
Have a look at Southenddogtraining.co.uk.

loads of videos specializes in dog issues, Found him on Tik tok and his videos have been great in training our puppy,

good luck!

parakitaMol.

11,876 posts

250 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
Hey Challo
I am so sorry to hear that, it sounds very difficult for your dog indeed, and worrying for you.

Honestly, I really truly would not advise taking advice on 'trying' things with a dog like this. I know people try to be kind and do really want to help but - you could make things a whole heap worse with behaviour problems.

If you are insured you should be covered for a vet referral to a behaviourist. Worth checking smile

The only advice I will give is to first see a vet (always the first call with behaviour because pain can have a dramatic and profound effect on behaviour) and get a check up (you will need this anyway) and then get your vet to refer to a behaviourist - you can look on https://www.apbc.org.uk/find-an-apbc-member/ for a list
If you discuss this behaviour with your vet and they feel your dog may need medication as well as behaviour support then you will need Veterinary Behaviourist - so ask for a referral to somewhere like RVC (Jon Bowen is really good) or Lincoln - (Prof Daniel Mills is really good).

You don't need to wait - they are all doing Zoom consults and they don't need to see your dog doing this to know how to help - If you want to see a behaviourist then I would start the ball rolling sooner than later because there are a HUGE backlog of lockdown behaviour problems that they are trying to get through.

Your trainer is correct, try to minimise all situations where you know your dog is going to react. It sounds like you are doing a good job of spotting. However, you will not "confirm to your dog that the behaviour is correct", I am not sure really what that means. However, you do want to 'manage' a situation so your dog does not rehearse these behaviours, the more times they do it, the harder a habit is to break.

With regards to your other dog - I would suggest another 'first aid' strategy is to walk 1:1 - because this means you can be 100% focussed on your dog and manage the situation better - they will also find this reassuring.

If you see other dogs approaching, try to get as far to one side as possible and turn your dog so they are not facing the oncoming dog. This is also something that helps quite a bit - head on approaches aren't a great signal to a dog and many react badly to that. smile

If you want any further help in finding someone please do feel free to ask or PM me, I have a great network of trainers and behaviourists smile good luck x

Edited by parakitaMol. on Friday 15th January 18:44

parakitaMol.

11,876 posts

250 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
A205GTI said:
Have a look at Southenddogtraining.co.uk.

loads of videos specializes in dog issues, Found him on Tik tok and his videos have been great in training our puppy,

good luck!
Do not go anywhere near a person who does not put their name and accreditation on their website but offers training or behaviour services.

They also have 'Pet Corrector Spray' advertised as a training tool - massive clue they have got no accreditation /training or qualifications.

Steer well clear of this.

Challo

Original Poster:

10,043 posts

154 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
A205GTI said:
Have a look at Southenddogtraining.co.uk.

loads of videos specializes in dog issues, Found him on Tik tok and his videos have been great in training our puppy,

good luck!
Thanks will take a look.

parakitaMol. said:
Hey Challo
I am so sorry to hear that, it sounds very difficult for your dog indeed, and worrying for you.

Honestly, I really truly would not advise taking advice on 'trying' things with a dog like this. I know people try to be kind and do really want to help but - you could make things a whole heap worse with behaviour problems.

If you are insured you should be covered for a vet referral to a behaviourist. Worth checking smile

The only advice I will give is to first see a vet (always the first call with behaviour) and get a check up (you will need this anyway) and then get your vet to refer to a behaviourist - you can look on https://www.apbc.org.uk/find-an-apbc-member/ for a list
If you discuss this behaviour with your vet and they feel your dog may need medication as well as behaviour support then you will need Veterinary Behaviourist - so ask for a referral to somewhere like RVC (Jon Bowen is really good) or Lincoln - (Prof Daniel Mills is really good).

You don't need to wait - they are all doing Zoom consults and they don't need to see your dog doing this to know how to help - If you want to see a behaviourist then I would start the ball rolling sooner than later because there are a HUGE backlog of lockdown behaviour problems that they are trying to get through.

Your trainer is correct, try to minimise all situations where you know your dog is going to react. It sounds like you are doing a good job of spotting. However, you will not "confirm to your dog that the behaviour is correct", I am not sure really what that means. However, you do want to 'manage' a situation so your dog does not rehearse these behaviours, the more times they do it, the harder a habit is to break.

With regards to your other dog - I would suggest another 'first aid' strategy is to walk 1:1 - because this means you can be 100% focussed on your dog and manage the situation better - they will also find this reassuring.

If you see other dogs approaching, try to get as far to one side as possible and turn your dog so they are not facing the oncoming dog. This is also something that helps quite a bit - head on approaches aren't a great signal to a dog and many react badly to that. smile

If you want any further help in finding someone please do feel free to ask or PM me, I have a great network of trainers and behaviourists smile good luck x
Wow thanks for all the information. He recently had a check-up at the vets and they advised everything is good from a health perspective, but I will check our insurance documents and see if we can go down that route.

Nice to hear the Zoom session would work, I always thought they would need to see the dog doing that behaviour but I presume they can help regardless. I'll give them a call next week and see what availability they have to make a start. I agree with your comments on walking them separately when possible, but I do think we need to step this up more. Its often to easy to take them together.

I just checked her email again, and her comment was by putting him in that situation they are practicing barking and lunging and the behaviour becomes stronger. I should avoid allowing this to happen until an alternative behaviour can be taught.

I'll take a look at the link you sent, and reach out for any contacts if my trainer is not available.

parakitaMol.

11,876 posts

250 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
Challo said:
A205GTI said:
Have a look at Southenddogtraining.co.uk.

loads of videos specializes in dog issues, Found him on Tik tok and his videos have been great in training our puppy,

good luck!
Thanks will take a look.

parakitaMol. said:
Hey Challo
I am so sorry to hear that, it sounds very difficult for your dog indeed, and worrying for you.

Honestly, I really truly would not advise taking advice on 'trying' things with a dog like this. I know people try to be kind and do really want to help but - you could make things a whole heap worse with behaviour problems.

If you are insured you should be covered for a vet referral to a behaviourist. Worth checking smile

The only advice I will give is to first see a vet (always the first call with behaviour) and get a check up (you will need this anyway) and then get your vet to refer to a behaviourist - you can look on https://www.apbc.org.uk/find-an-apbc-member/ for a list
If you discuss this behaviour with your vet and they feel your dog may need medication as well as behaviour support then you will need Veterinary Behaviourist - so ask for a referral to somewhere like RVC (Jon Bowen is really good) or Lincoln - (Prof Daniel Mills is really good).

You don't need to wait - they are all doing Zoom consults and they don't need to see your dog doing this to know how to help - If you want to see a behaviourist then I would start the ball rolling sooner than later because there are a HUGE backlog of lockdown behaviour problems that they are trying to get through.

Your trainer is correct, try to minimise all situations where you know your dog is going to react. It sounds like you are doing a good job of spotting. However, you will not "confirm to your dog that the behaviour is correct", I am not sure really what that means. However, you do want to 'manage' a situation so your dog does not rehearse these behaviours, the more times they do it, the harder a habit is to break.

With regards to your other dog - I would suggest another 'first aid' strategy is to walk 1:1 - because this means you can be 100% focussed on your dog and manage the situation better - they will also find this reassuring.

If you see other dogs approaching, try to get as far to one side as possible and turn your dog so they are not facing the oncoming dog. This is also something that helps quite a bit - head on approaches aren't a great signal to a dog and many react badly to that. smile

If you want any further help in finding someone please do feel free to ask or PM me, I have a great network of trainers and behaviourists smile good luck x
Wow thanks for all the information. He recently had a check-up at the vets and they advised everything is good from a health perspective, but I will check our insurance documents and see if we can go down that route.

Nice to hear the Zoom session would work, I always thought they would need to see the dog doing that behaviour but I presume they can help regardless. I'll give them a call next week and see what availability they have to make a start. I agree with your comments on walking them separately when possible, but I do think we need to step this up more. Its often to easy to take them together.

I just checked her email again, and her comment was by putting him in that situation they are practicing barking and lunging and the behaviour becomes stronger. I should avoid allowing this to happen until an alternative behaviour can be taught.

I'll take a look at the link you sent, and reach out for any contacts if my trainer is not available.
They will prefer to see a dog 1:1 in an ideal world but if you are thorough with your history and observations and any videos you may have, they will have a pretty good idea what is needed and will at least be able to give you some more detailed management strategies.

Yes your trainer has given you good advice - that makes much more sense how she has described it - that is precisely what I would say.

Do not touch the Southend link with a barge pole. That is the dog training equivalent to a cowboy builder. smile

Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
Challo said:
I

Its when he is on the lead he can be a nightmare. Occasionally he will see a dog and be fine, but majority of the time he goes ballistic. Barking constantly and lunges towards them. This is him being scared, but it can look to be aggressive and scares other owners. Also if he sees a cat he loses his mind and its difficult to control him. Tries to drag me or my partner across the road to get to the cat.

We can manage the situation again with a ball or treats if I get his attention before he realises, but if he has spotted the cat / dog its difficult to calm him down. The issue is compounded by the fact he has an older brother who i think he feeding off his brother and if he see's Aubrey barking he tries to protect him and then you have two dogs barking and being difficult to control.
We have a rescue dog with similar behaviour. It's pretty ingrained so is taking time to sort.

What are you feeding him? dry or meat?

Without getting all the way in to our over-2 year journey

  • Switch to dry food
  • Feed on the walk, from a bag. Every few mins, call his name and when he looks at you, feed from the bag. If he doesn't acknowledge you, don't feed him. (He'll soon gets the idea and he will eat if he's hungry)
  • Also carry high value treats. Being as he's on dry food, we carry meat - cheap sliced chicken or similar.
  • When he sees another dog, distract him with the high value treats before he loses control. If he's calm, keep feeding (small pieces each time)
If he loses control and reacts, stop feeding the meat and retreat away from the other dog. When he calms again and you have his attention, feed again whilst the dog is in sight. When the dog moves out of sight, stop feeding high value and carry on with walk.

The idea is that the dog will associate seeing another dog with getting high value treats if he's calm. For this to work, it's crucial that you only give high value treats when other dogs are around and when he's doing what he's supposed to.

So no treats at home! (Wives and kids are bad for this!) He only eats anything on his walk and only in return for good behaviour, nowhere else.

Try Scullcap and Valerian too


Caveat
This is based on my experience with my reactive dog.
It takes time and patience.
I am not a dog behaviourist.
You should talk to a dog behaviourist - even verbally over zoom to get tips.

parakitaMol.

11,876 posts

250 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
So no treats at home! (Wives and kids are bad for this!) He only eats anything on his walk and only in return for good behaviour, nowhere else.

Try Scullcap and Valerian too


Caveat
This is based on my experience with my reactive dog.
It takes time and patience.
I am not a dog behaviourist.
You should talk to a dog behaviourist - even verbally over zoom to get tips.
The dog could be reacting because of a number of things. A behaviourist needs to conduct a full assessment - they won't give 'tips'.

It is not about 'good behaviour'. This is an emotional response that is going on (it could be fear, frustration or an association with something etc) so - they are not capable of 'thinking' it through

So rewarding *only* for doing something they are not capable of yet isn't going to work. smile
With behavioural work, when you are conditioning a new emotional response to other dogs being present there are loads more elements to it (which a behaviourist will guide you through) for example, speed of approach, direction of approach, visual barriers, you would reward your dog for another dog being present at a 'safe' distance (relative to the needs of the reactive dog) - you do not make the rewards contingent on behaviour... the good stuff happens whenever another dog is present. Not when they perform a behaviour. Otherwise you will end up potentially just supressing a behaviour which inevitably comes out and surprises you when you least expect.

Trying out suggestions like this could end up backfiring unless you know what you are doing.

I honestly would not do anything, other than avoid known triggers, keep your dog calm and quiet, with lots of sniffing and low traffic places to walk.

ALWAYS reward your dog at home, always reward for everything they do that you want them to, never stop - even if it is just a chin scratch. Taking high value food on walks is always a good idea. Please don't make it conditional though. Don't change your dog's food unless there is a dietary/nutritional reason to do so.



Edited by parakitaMol. on Friday 15th January 18:12

SimpleSimonSays

77 posts

98 months

Friday 15th January 2021
quotequote all
+1 for seeing a vet first.

We found it was pain causing our dog’s nervous behaviour, and she then learnt to shout at everyone to keep them away so they didn’t touch her, as it was uncomfortable.

Unlearning that behaviour is still proving to be a challenge...

Edit - just read that you’ve been to the vet. Sometimes they’re not great at diagnosing pain as an underlying condition. Hopefully your situation isn’t pain related and can be sorted via a behaviourist. Good luck!

Edited by SimpleSimonSays on Friday 15th January 18:31

Challo

Original Poster:

10,043 posts

154 months

Monday 8th February 2021
quotequote all
We had our first zoom session last week so thought it would be good to update the thread.

The session was really good, and exceed my expectations. We discussed the issues we are having with Aubrey and she has advised a number of things to start with in and out of the house.

At Home:
1. Keep a radio on all the time. This will help have some background noise on, and mute any noises from outside that had startled him previously. The noises will still be their, but less surprising for him.
2. Sleep. Getting him to sleep as much as we can while we are working at home. If they sleep, they become more relaxed and less adrenalin they have in their systems. Means he is less chance of getting worked up in the house, or on edge when we go for a walk.
3. No balls in the evening. He is obsessed with tennis balls so while we thought it was good to give him on to keep him quiet, or occupy him he just thinks its 'work' and wont settle. We have made the lounge a ball free zone, and in evening he doesn't get a ball. He can have a chew or rope but its time for him to settle and relax. Its defo helped the last few nights and he seems more relaxed.
4. Reward him for looking at us. We have a few pots of treats around the house and he gets one for looking at us. We cannot call his name, but supposed to keep that contact between him and us and should mean he is more focused on us while out rather than other dogs.
5. Teaching them to change direction. Playing a game called 'this way' which teaches them to change direction on command. Should mean I can remove them from situations on command, and not drag them via leads.

Also because he just follows me round the house I have to ignore him at times. If I make a cuppa I need to ignore him and not fuss him or call his name. He needs to learn to not rely on me all the time.

While walking:
1. Avoid situations where other dogs will be. This will not allow him to have learn bad behaviours.
2. If we cannot avoid a situation with another dog, then try to get attention early and reward with treats. We have been doing this and worked so far.

Occasionally we have had an issue and they have both lunged at dogs, but much improved and the groundwork seems to be working. Still a long way to go, but onwards and upwards. We have a F2F in a few weeks, and hopefully that will enable us to teach some new behaviours and allow them to meet other dogs and not go crazy.

parakitaMol.

11,876 posts

250 months

Monday 8th February 2021
quotequote all
Well done that's really great update smile

The importance of sleep has only recently been considered, there is a huge amount of interest in this area around choice/position/height/location of beds - quality sleep where dogs don't feel the need to 'monitor' their surroundings really helps. I actually did a seminar on this with Vet Behaviourist Amber Batson, fascinating and important aspect smile

You mention balls - such an important consideration. Dogs have a natural hunting sequence that begins with 'eyeing' and locating their prey - has several steps - then finishes with chewing on the bones. (sequence can be different depending on breeds). Chewing phase releases natural endorphins which are calming and promote good sleep.

The trouble with ball chucking (apart from the physical damage) is dogs go immediately into the 'chase' high adrenaline stage - they don't warm up and they don't cool down either physically or mentally. Remaining or repeating in this high adrenaline phase for prolonged periods or repeatedly can be really bad dogs emotionally or physically.

Contrary to popular belief - it often has the opposite effect to tiring them out and it can worsen anxious dogs reactivity. smile

That's just a very simple explanation of why you have been given this advice. I think that's good advice and a great place to start. smile

One small comment - *some* dogs find eye contact very uncomfortable - if your dog struggles with it, get them to look at the chicken instead - and when navigating other dogs try to avoid head on approaches - the more space you can create the better (not always possible) - sounds like you've had some great advice and I wish you every success - keep us updated smile(

Edited by parakitaMol. on Monday 8th February 10:28

Challo

Original Poster:

10,043 posts

154 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
Another Quick Update:

Things have been progressing well since our first zoom session with the trainer. Behaviour at home has vastly improved, much calmer, sleeping more and generally less agitated. He still has his moment, barking at the doorbell, having a crazy 5min spell. We have been able to calm him quickly, and he is much more chilled out at home.

Had our first 1to1 session outside yesterday and was really impressed. She gave the base steps to get him used to seeing dogs. Keeping everything at a distance a first and rewarding him for not barking, then getting a little closer again rewarding him for not barking. We learnt some skills to get ourselves out of sticky situations, and to recognise the signs when he might bark, or is agitated and needs some time out.

Long road ahead, but feel much happier that we are on the right track and making progress.

parakitaMol.

11,876 posts

250 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
Great to hear your progress, that’s super well donesmile