Site next door being developed, access to our wall?
Discussion
Our house has a 0.4 acre site next to it, which has been vacant for 15 years. It has PP for 9 terraced houses to be built, which expires in September. On Wednesday the site went to auction, and sold. We therefore think it likely that development will begin sooner rather than later, to ensure PP doesn't lapse. Our garden wall (owned, is on our deeds) runs from the front of our house right to the back of our garden, IE the entire length of the site next door.
Furthermore 15 years of being left to it's own devices has meant a thick coverage of bushes (Buddleia) and trees have grown throughout. Many of these are adjacent to our wall, meaning roots have damaged the wall, resulting in certain cracks and damaged bricks. I would hazard a guess that the developer will be inclined to put a fence along the wall rather than make it good, which would also see the wall enclosed.
So this leaves the following questions.
An image of the site plan, for reference.
Furthermore 15 years of being left to it's own devices has meant a thick coverage of bushes (Buddleia) and trees have grown throughout. Many of these are adjacent to our wall, meaning roots have damaged the wall, resulting in certain cracks and damaged bricks. I would hazard a guess that the developer will be inclined to put a fence along the wall rather than make it good, which would also see the wall enclosed.
So this leaves the following questions.
- Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
- What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
- Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
An image of the site plan, for reference.
Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Friday 11th June 18:56
princeperch said:
Can't help with your query but the car parking situation doesn't look like its going to be much fun...
It won't be ideal, but shouldn't be too much of a problem. The plan includes 20 parking spaces, so for 9x 2 beds that should be about right. We're now a single car household, and the neighbour has a garage at the back of his house. Should I get a car at some point we also have an off street space to the rear of ours, which is to small to accommodate the Insignia. It will be a little more hassle for people visiting us, but they will deal with it. Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
So this leaves the following questions.
1 Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
2 What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
3 Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
1) It depends on the ownership of the wall. If it is T-marked on the title deeds, it is the responsibility of the owner on whose side the T-marks lie. If there is no indication of ownership in the deeds, then the whole wall (both sides) is likely to be considered the shared responsibility/liability of both plots. I would expect most responsible developers to bear the initial cost of putting the wall into good order themselves, but that would be entirely goodwill on their part and some might simply erect a close-boarded fence in front of it and forget about it.1 Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
2 What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
3 Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
2) Nothing. You have a right of access to neighbouring land for maintenance purposes (only) under (guess what..) the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992. However;
3) No.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Can anyone offer any words of advice?
Knowing you as I do from your previous posts: move house. You're not going to enjoy living there, with a building site next door.Edited by Equus on Friday 11th June 11:08
Equus said:
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
So this leaves the following questions.
1 Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
2 What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
3 Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
1) It depends on the ownership of the wall. It it is T-marked on the title deeds, it is the responsibility of the owner on whose side the T-marks lie. If there is no indication of ownership in the deeds, then the whole wall (both sides) is likely to be considered the shared responsibility/liability of both plots. I would expect most responsible developers to bear the initial cost of putting the wall into good order themselves, but that would be entirely goodwill on their part and some might simply erect a close-boarded fence in front of it and forget about it.1 Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
2 What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
3 Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
2) Nothing. You have a right of access to neighbouring land for maintenance purposes (only) under (guess what..) the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992. However;
3) No.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Can anyone offer any words of advice?
Knowing you as I do from your previous posts: move house. You're not going to enjoy living there, with a building site next door.You could try and compromise with developers and get them to change it out to a fence or a new wall if you are very lucky (which I doubt)
Equus said:
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
So this leaves the following questions.
1 Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
2 What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
3 Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
1) It depends on the ownership of the wall. It it is T-marked on the title deeds, it is the responsibility of the owner on whose side the T-marks lie. If there is no indication of ownership in the deeds, then the whole wall (both sides) is likely to be considered the shared responsibility/liability of both plots. I would expect most responsible developers to bear the initial cost of putting the wall into good order themselves, but that would be entirely goodwill on their part and some might simply erect a close-boarded fence in front of it and forget about it.1 Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
2 What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
3 Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
2) Nothing. You have a right of access to neighbouring land for maintenance purposes (only) under (guess what..) the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992. However;
3) No.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Can anyone offer any words of advice?
Knowing you as I do from your previous posts: move house. You're not going to enjoy living there, with a building site next door.Very good advice, and genuinely much appreciated.
Your last paragraph. No, you don't know me. The neighbour to the other side is a selfish self centered rude a
hole, who considers no one but himself. I could elaborate, but will just leave you with one example of the 'man' he is. The day after my wife miscarried he said to the pair of us bold as brass 'well, some people just aren't meant to have children' Sarah has not chatted with him since.We won't be moving, this house has been a labour of love for us. A brief chat with the auction house informed me that the guys who have bought it are decent folk, so at some point when we see them on site we will approach them with a cup of tea and have a friendly chat about it.
Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Friday 11th June 19:12
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Your last paragraph. No, you don't know me.
I wasn't thinking of your dealings with your neighbour, specifically. I don't think there's anyone who likes having a building site next door, but if you're the kind of person who let's minor irritations get to you, it's going to be a couple of years of purgatory, followed by a bunch of stuff that will niggle you forever...
Equus said:
I wasn't thinking of your dealings with your neighbour, specifically.
I don't think there's anyone who likes having a building site next door, but if you're the kind of person who let's minor irritations get to you, it's going to be a couple of years of purgatory, followed by a bunch of stuff that will niggle you forever...
We'll deal with it. It's in everyones interest to keep it amicable, there are cons once it's developed, but pros too, believe it or not. And my anxiety is being worked on with the help of pro's, having peaked previously. I'll keep my cool.I don't think there's anyone who likes having a building site next door, but if you're the kind of person who let's minor irritations get to you, it's going to be a couple of years of purgatory, followed by a bunch of stuff that will niggle you forever...
To conclude the thread, a few hours ago I had a further chat with a guy from the auction house, and he advised it is 3 local guys who have bought it. He knows one of them personally, and describes him as a great bloke (and gave his first name and description so I'll recognise him) They have exchanged, and when complete they will crack on clearing the site, to be ready to build.
Without pouncing on them the second I see them I'll approach them and introduce, have a chat, discuss a few bits etc. The auction guy, knowing how they do things, says it's unlikely they'll fence the wall in, A) to be decent, as pulling out roots may damage the wall further, so he's sure they'll make it good, and B) we have a row of leylandii, so it would make it hard to prune them with a fence in place.
I'm relaxed. When work starts, as long as the builders are sound, I'll do Friday morning bacon butties. An old trick of mine is that fed workers are happy workers, and accordingly you keep them on side. I do it for every tradesmen we have, so will extend it them.
Without pouncing on them the second I see them I'll approach them and introduce, have a chat, discuss a few bits etc. The auction guy, knowing how they do things, says it's unlikely they'll fence the wall in, A) to be decent, as pulling out roots may damage the wall further, so he's sure they'll make it good, and B) we have a row of leylandii, so it would make it hard to prune them with a fence in place.
I'm relaxed. When work starts, as long as the builders are sound, I'll do Friday morning bacon butties. An old trick of mine is that fed workers are happy workers, and accordingly you keep them on side. I do it for every tradesmen we have, so will extend it them.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
To conclude the thread, a few hours ago I had a further chat with a guy from the auction house, and he advised it is 3 local guys who have bought it. He knows one of them personally, and describes him as a great bloke (and gave his first name and description so I'll recognise him) They have exchanged, and when complete they will crack on clearing the site, to be ready to build.
Without pouncing on them the second I see them I'll approach them and introduce, have a chat, discuss a few bits etc. The auction guy, knowing how they do things, says it's unlikely they'll fence the wall in, A) to be decent, as pulling out roots may damage the wall further, so he's sure they'll make it good, and B) we have a row of leylandii, so it would make it hard to prune them with a fence in place.
I'm relaxed. When work starts, as long as the builders are sound, I'll do Friday morning bacon butties. An old trick of mine is that fed workers are happy workers, and accordingly you keep them on side. I do it for every tradesmen we have, so will extend it them.
They’ll be queuing up for their morning craps next. I’d not be feeding next doors building development.Without pouncing on them the second I see them I'll approach them and introduce, have a chat, discuss a few bits etc. The auction guy, knowing how they do things, says it's unlikely they'll fence the wall in, A) to be decent, as pulling out roots may damage the wall further, so he's sure they'll make it good, and B) we have a row of leylandii, so it would make it hard to prune them with a fence in place.
I'm relaxed. When work starts, as long as the builders are sound, I'll do Friday morning bacon butties. An old trick of mine is that fed workers are happy workers, and accordingly you keep them on side. I do it for every tradesmen we have, so will extend it them.
bennno said:
They’ll be queuing up for their morning craps next. I’d not be feeding next doors building development.
Disagree. Look after people you want onside and they'll be likely accommodating of you if you make an ask to benefit you. It's a fiver of bacon and 10 minutes of my time a week. Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Disagree. Look after people you want onside and they'll be likely accommodating of you if you make an ask to benefit you. It's a fiver of bacon and 10 minutes of my time a week.
It is a bit odd though. And transparent enough to come across a bit patronising.iphonedyou said:
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Disagree. Look after people you want onside and they'll be likely accommodating of you if you make an ask to benefit you. It's a fiver of bacon and 10 minutes of my time a week.
It is a bit odd though. And transparent enough to come across a bit patronising.Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Our house has a 0.4 acre site next to it, which has been vacant for 15 years. It has PP for 9 terraced houses to be built, which expires in September. On Wednesday the site went to auction, and sold. We therefore think it likely that development will begin sooner rather than later, to ensure PP doesn't lapse. Our garden wall (owned, is on our deeds) runs from the front of our house right to the back of our garden, IE the entire length of the site next door.
Furthermore 15 years of being left to it's own devices has meant a thick coverage of bushes (Buddleia) and trees have grown throughout. Many of these are adjacent to our wall, meaning roots have damaged the wall, resulting in certain cracks and damaged bricks. I would hazard a guess that the developer will be inclined to put a fence along the wall rather than make it good, which would also see the wall enclosed.
So this leaves the following questions.
An image of the site plan, for reference.
Genuine question, and don't take this the wrong way, but why would you now want someone else to repair and maintain your wall when it has been left for 15 years? If the plot has been empty for so long, why have you not repaired/maintained it and kept it in sound condition? Furthermore 15 years of being left to it's own devices has meant a thick coverage of bushes (Buddleia) and trees have grown throughout. Many of these are adjacent to our wall, meaning roots have damaged the wall, resulting in certain cracks and damaged bricks. I would hazard a guess that the developer will be inclined to put a fence along the wall rather than make it good, which would also see the wall enclosed.
So this leaves the following questions.
- Is the developer, now the owner of the site, responsible for both the cost and work to make good their side of our wall?
- What do we need to do to ensure either an access right to maintain our wall moving forward, or to have a 'rule' put in place that new home owners need to keep it in good condition?
- Can we insist that the wall is not fenced over, to ensure A) it is repaired, and B) can be maintained moving forward.
An image of the site plan, for reference.
Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Friday 11th June 18:56
MDMA . said:
Genuine question, and don't take this the wrong way, but why would you now want someone else to repair and maintain your wall when it has been left for 15 years? If the plot has been empty for so long, why have you not repaired/maintained it and kept it in sound condition?
Firstly, it's a bloody big wall. As mentioned it runs all the way from the beginning of the front side passage to the end of the car port meeting the road behind. We have been maintaining and painting on our side since moving in 5 (?) years ago, but the entire house is a development, having been un-loved for many decades. Accordingly there is still a fair bit of it needing attention! We believe (and we'll be pulling out the deeds when we get a mo, thanks again to Equus for apt advice) that the owners of the site are responsible for maintaining 'their' side of the wall until the houses are sold, so why would we not push them to meet this obligation (if it is the case)
Also worth noting that the previous site owner had zero interest in maintaining the site. When we repaired a split in the wall caused by Buddleia roots on his side it took many calls for him to attend to assess, and pay us back expenses for the work we'd had to do. He only eventually showed up when I told his PA 'he either gets over today or we'll issue small claims court papers', having been given the same line repeatedly by them.
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
iphonedyou said:
Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:
Disagree. Look after people you want onside and they'll be likely accommodating of you if you make an ask to benefit you. It's a fiver of bacon and 10 minutes of my time a week.
It is a bit odd though. And transparent enough to come across a bit patronising.Depending on how hard the developer hits the project, you may also be in for a bit of a shock over how things work on this sort of development.
It's not going to be one old boy leaning on his shovel while his lad does all the work. It's not a domestic extension.
More likely a groundworks contractor comes in and blitzes the site, then a site manager takes over coordinating various direct trades and subcontractors working from a site cabin in a secure compound. The site itself will be fully secured with Heras fencing (so you might have to lob the bacon butties over the top; or maybe fly them in by drone).
There will be several trades on site, most of the time, and they will all be working. The building site is their place of work. The idea is to get it built and sold as fast as possible, so that the money tied up in it can be moved on to the next project.
You will be viewed as .. eccentric... at best, if you start wandering about the site offering bacon butties to all and sundry.
They will also take Health and Safety very seriously, and if you enter the site without full PPE and a valid CSCS card, you'll be politely but very firmly asked to leave right now.
How u doing said:
The district nurse popped round the other day, to see my ailing MIL.
As I was washing our cars anyway I gave her Yeti a quick hose, shampoo and leather. I think she appreciated it, hoping to be front of the queue should we need it.
I bet she gets offered bacon butties all the time.
Is Yeti a euphemism?As I was washing our cars anyway I gave her Yeti a quick hose, shampoo and leather. I think she appreciated it, hoping to be front of the queue should we need it.
I bet she gets offered bacon butties all the time.
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