Freehold works timing after notice
Discussion
This summer our Freeholder served notice on the Leaseholders that they intended to replace all the fire doors and entry doors to the blocks of flats I live in - as a private sale / purchase leaseholder. The works were replacement of fire doors and the need was identified not long after the Grenfell Fire.
Over 4 months after the service of the notice the works still have not been procured - as far as I can tell. I work in the construction industry on the client side and would have thought that 4 months would have been long enough to procure a simple contract like this, even if it would take 12 - 16 weeks to get the doorsets then manufactured after the orders are placed through the supply chain.
How long has the Freeholder got to start the work under the initial notice before all bets are off? I don't particularly agree the work needs doing, especially at the notified cost of over £1200 per leasehold, but if it is to be done then I would prefer to know for sure.
Over 4 months after the service of the notice the works still have not been procured - as far as I can tell. I work in the construction industry on the client side and would have thought that 4 months would have been long enough to procure a simple contract like this, even if it would take 12 - 16 weeks to get the doorsets then manufactured after the orders are placed through the supply chain.
How long has the Freeholder got to start the work under the initial notice before all bets are off? I don't particularly agree the work needs doing, especially at the notified cost of over £1200 per leasehold, but if it is to be done then I would prefer to know for sure.
The Freeholder needs to serve a Section 20 Notice to all Leaseholders.
Section 20 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 (as amended by the Commonhold & Leasehold Reform Act 2002) sets out the three-stage consultation procedure with which to follow when carrying out qualifying works to your building where the contribution from any one lessee exceeds £250, or a qualifying long-term agreement where the contribution from any one lessee exceeds £100 in one financial year. If your Residents’ Management Company (RMC) is looking to carry out works, or enter into a long-term agreement of this nature, then consultation must take place with all lessees. If there is a Recognised Tenants’ (or Residents’) Association (RTA), then you must include them within your consultation.
Stage One
For qualifying works, under Section 20 you would be required to serve a “Notice of Intention to Carry Out Works” upon all lessees. The Notice must generally describe the proposed works, state the reasons for considering the proposed works, and invite leaseholders to make written observations within 30 days. The correspondence address for observations should be stated within the Notice as well. The importance of the Notice of Intention is that it offers lessees with the opportunity to provide the name of a contractor from whom the Landlord/RMC should try to obtain an estimate for the proposed works.
Stage Two
At the expiration of the 30 day consultation period, at least two estimates should be obtained: one of these estimates must be from a person completely independent of the Landlord/RMC. If nominations were made within the consultation period, then estimates should have been obtained from at least one of these nominations. The Landlord/RMC must then provide a “Statement of Estimates” which sets out the details of estimates that have been obtained and a summary of observations received within the consultation period. Any estimates that have been obtained must be available for inspection by the lessees, including estimates obtained from nominated contractors. A “Notice to Accompany the Statement of Estimates” must also be served in conjunction with the Statement of Estimates, which sets out the hours and place where details of the estimates may be inspected, inviting lessees to make written observations on the estimates within 30 days, specifying the address to which those observations should be sent.
Stage Three
If, at the expiration of the consultation period, the chosen contractor did not provide the lowest estimate, then a “Notice of Reasons” must be served upon all lessees. This essentially states the Landlord’s/RMC’s reasons for awarding the contract. It is worth noting that if a nominee is chosen to carry out the works, and they didn’t provide the lowest estimate, then although the requirements of Section 20 have been fulfilled, it would be prudent to serve a Notice of Reasons because that estimate could be tested for reasonableness by the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (LVT) under Section 19 of the 1985 Landlord & Tenant Act.
For long-term agreements, the procedure is essentially the same, however Stage 2 is referred to as a Notice of Proposals. For instance, an agreement such as an intercom maintenance contract isn’t just about the cost of the maintenance, but the number of visits per year, frequency of visits, number of staff per visit, inclusions/exclusions of service etc.
In the event that the consultation procedure is not followed correctly and the Landlord/RMC is successfully challenged at the LVT, then the maximum amount recoverable from lessees under the service charge is £250 for major works and £100 for long-term agreements.
https://www.lease-advice.org/advice/find-the-right...
Section 20 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 (as amended by the Commonhold & Leasehold Reform Act 2002) sets out the three-stage consultation procedure with which to follow when carrying out qualifying works to your building where the contribution from any one lessee exceeds £250, or a qualifying long-term agreement where the contribution from any one lessee exceeds £100 in one financial year. If your Residents’ Management Company (RMC) is looking to carry out works, or enter into a long-term agreement of this nature, then consultation must take place with all lessees. If there is a Recognised Tenants’ (or Residents’) Association (RTA), then you must include them within your consultation.
Stage One
For qualifying works, under Section 20 you would be required to serve a “Notice of Intention to Carry Out Works” upon all lessees. The Notice must generally describe the proposed works, state the reasons for considering the proposed works, and invite leaseholders to make written observations within 30 days. The correspondence address for observations should be stated within the Notice as well. The importance of the Notice of Intention is that it offers lessees with the opportunity to provide the name of a contractor from whom the Landlord/RMC should try to obtain an estimate for the proposed works.
Stage Two
At the expiration of the 30 day consultation period, at least two estimates should be obtained: one of these estimates must be from a person completely independent of the Landlord/RMC. If nominations were made within the consultation period, then estimates should have been obtained from at least one of these nominations. The Landlord/RMC must then provide a “Statement of Estimates” which sets out the details of estimates that have been obtained and a summary of observations received within the consultation period. Any estimates that have been obtained must be available for inspection by the lessees, including estimates obtained from nominated contractors. A “Notice to Accompany the Statement of Estimates” must also be served in conjunction with the Statement of Estimates, which sets out the hours and place where details of the estimates may be inspected, inviting lessees to make written observations on the estimates within 30 days, specifying the address to which those observations should be sent.
Stage Three
If, at the expiration of the consultation period, the chosen contractor did not provide the lowest estimate, then a “Notice of Reasons” must be served upon all lessees. This essentially states the Landlord’s/RMC’s reasons for awarding the contract. It is worth noting that if a nominee is chosen to carry out the works, and they didn’t provide the lowest estimate, then although the requirements of Section 20 have been fulfilled, it would be prudent to serve a Notice of Reasons because that estimate could be tested for reasonableness by the Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (LVT) under Section 19 of the 1985 Landlord & Tenant Act.
For long-term agreements, the procedure is essentially the same, however Stage 2 is referred to as a Notice of Proposals. For instance, an agreement such as an intercom maintenance contract isn’t just about the cost of the maintenance, but the number of visits per year, frequency of visits, number of staff per visit, inclusions/exclusions of service etc.
In the event that the consultation procedure is not followed correctly and the Landlord/RMC is successfully challenged at the LVT, then the maximum amount recoverable from lessees under the service charge is £250 for major works and £100 for long-term agreements.
https://www.lease-advice.org/advice/find-the-right...
For any expected expenditure of £250 per leaseholder, then the freeholder should allow up to 3-4 months consultation period. The same covering two 30 day consultation periods, the first informing leaseholders of intentions to carry out works, the second submitting contractors estimates for the works to the leaseholders. This is then followed by the freeholder according leaseholders 21 days notice of both the contract and contractor and stating the reason for the freeholder’s selection..
If the freeholder does not follow the above consultation procedure, then the freeholder is not able to collect or recover service charges above the statutory minimum amount, being £250 per leaseholder.
There are power in numbers, therefore consulting with other leaseholders, and getting other leaseholders on board, adds considerable weight against the freeholder. Nothing stops any leaseholder/s obtaining their own expert’s report, and/or obtaining their own estimates for the works. Personally I have found local authorities fire brigade services and the council’s environment health department, have been quite willing to advise on fire safety issues.
If the freeholder does not follow the above consultation procedure, then the freeholder is not able to collect or recover service charges above the statutory minimum amount, being £250 per leaseholder.
There are power in numbers, therefore consulting with other leaseholders, and getting other leaseholders on board, adds considerable weight against the freeholder. Nothing stops any leaseholder/s obtaining their own expert’s report, and/or obtaining their own estimates for the works. Personally I have found local authorities fire brigade services and the council’s environment health department, have been quite willing to advise on fire safety issues.
Our freeholder stated that it would be a minimum of 4500 for us (1500 per leaseholder), we got an independent adviser in who stated that much of the work was unnecessary and we were up to most of it, gave us links to items he recommends at 25% of the cost.
The freeholder dismissed their findings in favour of their own company (does maintenance) who would charge us the full 4500.
We have stated that its a conflict of interest and they need to back down and talk to us via the management company and let them mediate, they have so far refused and threatening to do it and just bill us as its their right.
The freeholder dismissed their findings in favour of their own company (does maintenance) who would charge us the full 4500.
We have stated that its a conflict of interest and they need to back down and talk to us via the management company and let them mediate, they have so far refused and threatening to do it and just bill us as its their right.
Du1point8 said:
Our freeholder stated that it would be a minimum of 4500 for us (1500 per leaseholder), we got an independent adviser in who stated that much of the work was unnecessary and we were up to most of it, gave us links to items he recommends at 25% of the cost.
The freeholder dismissed their findings in favour of their own company (does maintenance) who would charge us the full 4500.
We have stated that its a conflict of interest and they need to back down and talk to us via the management company and let them mediate, they have so far refused and threatening to do it and just bill us as its their right.
If you are doing it as an unqualified DIYer then I doubt you would have 3rd party public liability insurance in place in the event of something going wrong either during the works or subsequent issues arising & this is likely to be a concern for the freeholder & a reason for rejecting your offer. The freeholder dismissed their findings in favour of their own company (does maintenance) who would charge us the full 4500.
We have stated that its a conflict of interest and they need to back down and talk to us via the management company and let them mediate, they have so far refused and threatening to do it and just bill us as its their right.
A second reason is that your own adviser says you aren't up to all the work which also means they are going to need to get someone in to do what you can't.
Edited by paintman on Tuesday 24th October 09:23
paintman said:
Du1point8 said:
Our freeholder stated that it would be a minimum of 4500 for us (1500 per leaseholder), we got an independent adviser in who stated that much of the work was unnecessary and we were up to most of it, gave us links to items he recommends at 25% of the cost.
The freeholder dismissed their findings in favour of their own company (does maintenance) who would charge us the full 4500.
We have stated that its a conflict of interest and they need to back down and talk to us via the management company and let them mediate, they have so far refused and threatening to do it and just bill us as its their right.
If you are doing it as an unqualified DIYer then I doubt you would have 3rd party public liability insurance in place in the event of something going wrong either during the works or subsequent issues arising & this is likely to be a concern for the freeholder & a reason for rejecting your offer. The freeholder dismissed their findings in favour of their own company (does maintenance) who would charge us the full 4500.
We have stated that its a conflict of interest and they need to back down and talk to us via the management company and let them mediate, they have so far refused and threatening to do it and just bill us as its their right.
A second reason is that your own adviser says you aren't up to all the work which also means they are going to need to get someone in to do what you can't.
Edited by paintman on Tuesday 24th October 09:23
Last time that happened the freeholders choice (which was 4k more expensive than the leaseholder choices) damaged the property and it took them 18 months to come and fix it.
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