Has anyone booked any continental holidays yet?
Discussion
It's all what-ifs right now. Who's to say vaccination has to be both doses? Could be a single dose within a certain time-frame. We know by now that a big degree of protection and benefit is gained from a single dose, the second is simply a top up for the final bit of coverage and longevity.
One poster talked a couple of pages ago about travelling into Poland for 'free' access to the Schengen.
It's not like that. France and the Netherlands all have curfews; you need permission (online submission) to enter Belgium, you can enter the UK on an Antigen test but you can't drive through France without a PCR. You also need to fill in a declaration to enter and another to leave France. My wife has made a cross-Europe trip today through 4 countries, has a file of papers and permissions, a PCR in the last 72 hours, proof of residency and a letter from her employer stating it was an essential trip within the rules and she got pulled over in France - they wanted to see her PCR test and the permissions to be in the country (non-French plates on das auto).
The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of the EU with vaccinations. Not just a bit ahead, but miles ahead. If I was Boris, I would not make entry into the UK easier, encourage spending at home and carry on with the vaccination plans. I don't think mainland Europe will be easy to get into, around or out of until early '22. Not unless they put a rocket up the vaccination distribution.
It's not like that. France and the Netherlands all have curfews; you need permission (online submission) to enter Belgium, you can enter the UK on an Antigen test but you can't drive through France without a PCR. You also need to fill in a declaration to enter and another to leave France. My wife has made a cross-Europe trip today through 4 countries, has a file of papers and permissions, a PCR in the last 72 hours, proof of residency and a letter from her employer stating it was an essential trip within the rules and she got pulled over in France - they wanted to see her PCR test and the permissions to be in the country (non-French plates on das auto).
The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of the EU with vaccinations. Not just a bit ahead, but miles ahead. If I was Boris, I would not make entry into the UK easier, encourage spending at home and carry on with the vaccination plans. I don't think mainland Europe will be easy to get into, around or out of until early '22. Not unless they put a rocket up the vaccination distribution.
Julietbravo said:
One poster talked a couple of pages ago about travelling into Poland for 'free' access to the Schengen.
It's not like that. France and the Netherlands all have curfews; you need permission (online submission) to enter Belgium, you can enter the UK on an Antigen test but you can't drive through France without a PCR. You also need to fill in a declaration to enter and another to leave France. My wife has made a cross-Europe trip today through 4 countries, has a file of papers and permissions, a PCR in the last 72 hours, proof of residency and a letter from her employer stating it was an essential trip within the rules and she got pulled over in France - they wanted to see her PCR test and the permissions to be in the country (non-French plates on das auto).
The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of the EU with vaccinations. Not just a bit ahead, but miles ahead. If I was Boris, I would not make entry into the UK easier, encourage spending at home and carry on with the vaccination plans. I don't think mainland Europe will be easy to get into, around or out of until early '22. Not unless they put a rocket up the vaccination distribution.
It was me, and I didn't say it gave free access to Schengen. I attached a caveat to it that there are internal borders, test requirements and restrictions in a whole host of European countries right now. France, Belgium, Holland, Germany. Italy, France etc. all have some restrictions in place and increasing infection rates. However, If you needed to get into Europe for an essential reason right now, it is possible. It's not like that. France and the Netherlands all have curfews; you need permission (online submission) to enter Belgium, you can enter the UK on an Antigen test but you can't drive through France without a PCR. You also need to fill in a declaration to enter and another to leave France. My wife has made a cross-Europe trip today through 4 countries, has a file of papers and permissions, a PCR in the last 72 hours, proof of residency and a letter from her employer stating it was an essential trip within the rules and she got pulled over in France - they wanted to see her PCR test and the permissions to be in the country (non-French plates on das auto).
The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of the EU with vaccinations. Not just a bit ahead, but miles ahead. If I was Boris, I would not make entry into the UK easier, encourage spending at home and carry on with the vaccination plans. I don't think mainland Europe will be easy to get into, around or out of until early '22. Not unless they put a rocket up the vaccination distribution.
Not for one moment would I advocate travelling to Europe for pleasure at the moment but there is increasing breakaways internal to the EU regarding entry requirements. Talk of no access to Europe until early '22 is a little unrealistic to be honest, based on murmurings of Greece opening up for the season.
Edit - Saved you the job, here was my original statement: There are probably a couple of others, I've not looked that closely, but my interest is more in getting access to Schengen without quarantining for ten days e.g. Fly to Poland, do 10 days of 'free' quarantine and then go onwards via internal borderless measures, noting that some countries are imposing internal border checks at the moment e.g. Germany, Holland, Belgium to name a few.
Edited by Pete102 on Wednesday 24th February 14:54
Leicester Loyal said:
Already off to Magaluf in August, that was booked last year so hopefully that goes ahead. I don't think I'll bother booking anything else abroad until everything is a little clearer, probably end up going on a weekend booze somewhere in October.
Magaluf 
takes me back to being 19 again and some very hazy memories. Pete102 said:
Julietbravo said:
One poster talked a couple of pages ago about travelling into Poland for 'free' access to the Schengen.
It's not like that. France and the Netherlands all have curfews; you need permission (online submission) to enter Belgium, you can enter the UK on an Antigen test but you can't drive through France without a PCR. You also need to fill in a declaration to enter and another to leave France. My wife has made a cross-Europe trip today through 4 countries, has a file of papers and permissions, a PCR in the last 72 hours, proof of residency and a letter from her employer stating it was an essential trip within the rules and she got pulled over in France - they wanted to see her PCR test and the permissions to be in the country (non-French plates on das auto).
The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of the EU with vaccinations. Not just a bit ahead, but miles ahead. If I was Boris, I would not make entry into the UK easier, encourage spending at home and carry on with the vaccination plans. I don't think mainland Europe will be easy to get into, around or out of until early '22. Not unless they put a rocket up the vaccination distribution.
It was me, and I didn't say it gave free access to Schengen. I attached a caveat to it that there are internal borders, test requirements and restrictions in a whole host of European countries right now. France, Belgium, Holland, Germany. Italy, France etc. all have some restrictions in place and increasing infection rates. However, If you needed to get into Europe for an essential reason right now, it is possible. It's not like that. France and the Netherlands all have curfews; you need permission (online submission) to enter Belgium, you can enter the UK on an Antigen test but you can't drive through France without a PCR. You also need to fill in a declaration to enter and another to leave France. My wife has made a cross-Europe trip today through 4 countries, has a file of papers and permissions, a PCR in the last 72 hours, proof of residency and a letter from her employer stating it was an essential trip within the rules and she got pulled over in France - they wanted to see her PCR test and the permissions to be in the country (non-French plates on das auto).
The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of the EU with vaccinations. Not just a bit ahead, but miles ahead. If I was Boris, I would not make entry into the UK easier, encourage spending at home and carry on with the vaccination plans. I don't think mainland Europe will be easy to get into, around or out of until early '22. Not unless they put a rocket up the vaccination distribution.
Not for one moment would I advocate travelling to Europe for pleasure at the moment but there is increasing breakaways internal to the EU regarding entry requirements. Talk of no access to Europe until early '22 is a little unrealistic to be honest, based on murmurings of Greece opening up for the season.
Edit - Saved you the job, here was my original statement: There are probably a couple of others, I've not looked that closely, but my interest is more in getting access to Schengen without quarantining for ten days e.g. Fly to Poland, do 10 days of 'free' quarantine and then go onwards via internal borderless measures, noting that some countries are imposing internal border checks at the moment e.g. Germany, Holland, Belgium to name a few.
Edited by Pete102 on Wednesday 24th February 14:54
- Missions indispensable for continuation of an economic activity, requiring a physical presence which cannot be postponed and whose postponement or cancellation would have clearly disproportionate consequences or would be impossible; Required documents: employer’s certificate, professional card for international freight, international passenger, international maritime transport crews
I live on a border and there are several exceptions for cross border workers, but whilst the UK has a road map to freedom, we have no bubbles, only one visitor in your house in a 24 hour period and a curfew. It's also getting expensive; the French need a PCR for transit at 180 Euros, the UK accept PCR or Antigen for entry, but also mandate a test on days 2 and 8 bought as part of a package from the .gov website for £210. Without it you won't get into the UK. I then need another PCR to come back. £550 per person in tests alone for a weekend in the UK before I book the tunnel - that's what will deter travelling.
I've got flights to Lanarca booked for early May - I'm just waiting for them to be cancelled at the moment.
Originally, I was booked for last March, then last September and now May, won't happen now.
Maybe we'll see if there's an opportunity to go in the late Summer/Autumn, but realistically I'm not expecting an overseas holiday this year again.
M
Originally, I was booked for last March, then last September and now May, won't happen now.
Maybe we'll see if there's an opportunity to go in the late Summer/Autumn, but realistically I'm not expecting an overseas holiday this year again.
M
Julietbravo said:
I get it, I was just making the point that it's not easy to get around out here and it's going to lift very slowly. Even work trips have to be defined in the exceptions list - this is what the French want to know when they stop you:
- Missions indispensable for continuation of an economic activity, requiring a physical presence which cannot be postponed and whose postponement or cancellation would have clearly disproportionate consequences or would be impossible; Required documents: employer’s certificate, professional card for international freight, international passenger, international maritime transport crews
I live on a border and there are several exceptions for cross border workers, but whilst the UK has a road map to freedom, we have no bubbles, only one visitor in your house in a 24 hour period and a curfew. It's also getting expensive; the French need a PCR for transit at 180 Euros, the UK accept PCR or Antigen for entry, but also mandate a test on days 2 and 8 bought as part of a package from the .gov website for £210. Without it you won't get into the UK. I then need another PCR to come back. £550 per person in tests alone for a weekend in the UK before I book the tunnel - that's what will deter travelling.
I know, I'm just very careful that what I've written isn't construed as attempts to get around the rules and restrictions, but at the same time it provides information of the current 'state of play' so to speak. I completely agree that the measures at the moment are all stacked to discourage travel, and to an extent so they should. - Missions indispensable for continuation of an economic activity, requiring a physical presence which cannot be postponed and whose postponement or cancellation would have clearly disproportionate consequences or would be impossible; Required documents: employer’s certificate, professional card for international freight, international passenger, international maritime transport crews
I live on a border and there are several exceptions for cross border workers, but whilst the UK has a road map to freedom, we have no bubbles, only one visitor in your house in a 24 hour period and a curfew. It's also getting expensive; the French need a PCR for transit at 180 Euros, the UK accept PCR or Antigen for entry, but also mandate a test on days 2 and 8 bought as part of a package from the .gov website for £210. Without it you won't get into the UK. I then need another PCR to come back. £550 per person in tests alone for a weekend in the UK before I book the tunnel - that's what will deter travelling.
Written this year off for holidays abroad. Just going to spend a few weeks on my parents boat instead. Just hope for better weather than last year as it rained all week 
If the red list stays through summer, just takes news of another variant popping up and before you know it 10 days in a crap hotel at your expense. Just not worth the risk and I wouldn't really be able to properly relax if I did.
If the red list stays through summer, just takes news of another variant popping up and before you know it 10 days in a crap hotel at your expense. Just not worth the risk and I wouldn't really be able to properly relax if I did.
z4RRSchris said:
"At the weekend it emerged Spanish islands holiday hotspots such as Magaluf in Majorca and San Antonio in Ibiza could get the green light to open up to International tourism if agreement on a Covid vaccine passport is reached."
so the UK has to implement a covid passport, and agree it with the EU, and you need to get your two vaccines - all before the summer!
Thats all very well but the rest of the EU are not going to have passports and 2 vaccines by the summer either.so the UK has to implement a covid passport, and agree it with the EU, and you need to get your two vaccines - all before the summer!
El stovey said:
ginettajoe said:
Cold said:
As above, Europe is riddled with a nasty virus. I can't see the attraction of going there until they sort themselves out.
I couldn't agree more!! I'm desperate to do a long European road trip (6 weeks), but quite honestly, I can't for the life of me understand anyone booking anything!! Remember all the muppets crying last year because they were forced to into cutting holidays short, to beat the quarantine requirements, all criticising the government, saying their businesses would suffer if they had to quarantine because they missed the deadline! Well, watch the same thing happen again...... impossible to educate stupid, as I keep saying, the biggest problem is, we have bred a nation of halfwits!!It’s not for you, that’s great but no need for the silly name calling.
It’s still February and this time last year covid was only getting going, there’s plenty of possibility of getting away again this year, even this summer. All the indications are that we’ll have quarantine free travel again this year which may or may not involve testing or vaccinations. Book something with a decent cancellation policy and be aware that the rules can change and what’s the problem?
When are you actually going to feel happy booking anything?
Edited by El stovey on Wednesday 24th February 13:36
stevemcs said:
z4RRSchris said:
"At the weekend it emerged Spanish islands holiday hotspots such as Magaluf in Majorca and San Antonio in Ibiza could get the green light to open up to International tourism if agreement on a Covid vaccine passport is reached."
so the UK has to implement a covid passport, and agree it with the EU, and you need to get your two vaccines - all before the summer!
Thats all very well but the rest of the EU are not going to have passports and 2 vaccines by the summer either.so the UK has to implement a covid passport, and agree it with the EU, and you need to get your two vaccines - all before the summer!
There is zero chance of the UK developing a vaccination passport, that is secure enough for the EU, and issuing it to everyone who wants one, in the next 12 weeks to enable your holiday to Spain. If anything the EU passport will be rolled out to member states and then they will look at 3rd countries.
Boris has said he wants it like the yellow fever form, thats been dismissed by the EU already as insecure and open to fraud.
ginettajoe said:
Loads of people went abroad last summer and brought back the second spike, locking us all down!!!
Unless this is simply your opinion, you're going to need to offer up some evidence to support that claim. Depending on which second spike you're talking about, if it was the one from October onwards, that had clear connections to children return to school and university students going back. Foreign travel was lifted from June 15th without any second spike.
If its the Christmas spike you're talking about, then yes, its slightly possible it came from abroad since it was first detected in Kent, the gateway for incoming goods and products. This also tallies with spikes in Belgium and France around the same time. Interestingly we also had the November lockdown whereby travel wasn't permitted, so I doubt it was holidaymakers.
Add into the mix natural immunity, vaccinations and a shift within the government that now focusses on hospitalisations and deaths rather than infection rate, barring some super mental variant, its highly unlikely future lockdown will be as a result of travellers.
Edited by Pete102 on Thursday 25th February 10:05
z4RRSchris said:
The EU is debating today the introduction of a EU/Shengen wide vaccination passport, some member states have them already (Hungary, Iceland) and many others are already developing them to allow travel within the block.
There is zero chance of the UK developing a vaccination passport, that is secure enough for the EU, and issuing it to everyone who wants one, in the next 12 weeks to enable your holiday to Spain. If anything the EU passport will be rolled out to member states and then they will look at 3rd countries.
Boris has said he wants it like the yellow fever form, thats been dismissed by the EU already as insecure and open to fraud.
The EU debating today is very different to the EU agreeing and rolling out a scheme. I really cant see it happening in any fast time-scale. There is zero chance of the UK developing a vaccination passport, that is secure enough for the EU, and issuing it to everyone who wants one, in the next 12 weeks to enable your holiday to Spain. If anything the EU passport will be rolled out to member states and then they will look at 3rd countries.
Boris has said he wants it like the yellow fever form, thats been dismissed by the EU already as insecure and open to fraud.
We'll end up with country by country requirements for the time being.
Pete102 said:
ginettajoe said:
Loads of people went abroad last summer and brought back the second spike, locking us all down!!!
Unless this is simply your opinion, you're going to need to offer up some evidence to support that claim. Depending on which second spike you're talking about, if it was the one from October onwards, that had clear connections to children return to school and university students going back. Foreign travel was lifted from June 15th without any second spike.
If its the Christmas spike you're talking about, then yes, its slightly possible it came from abroad since it was first detected in Kent, the gateway for incoming goods and products. This also tallies with spikes in Belgium and France around the same time. Interestingly we also had the November lockdown whereby travel wasn't permitted, so I doubt it was holidaymakers.
Add into the mix natural immunity, vaccinations and a shift within the government that now focusses on hospitalisations and deaths rather than infection rate, barring some super mental variant, its highly unlikely future lockdown will be as a result of travellers.
Edited by Pete102 on Thursday 25th February 10:05
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/212093/covid-19-tr...
loafer123 said:
Well known that the source of our severe infection was Europe;
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/212093/covid-19-tr...
Did you read the link you posted? If you didn't I'll pick out the bits as to why its not relevant to the original posters comment that it was linked to summer travellers:https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/212093/covid-19-tr...
Before the March 2020 lockdown, high travel volumes and few restrictions on international arrivals led to the establishment and co-circulation of >1000 identifiable UK transmission lineages, jointly contributing to accelerated epidemic growth that quickly exceeded national contact tracing capacity
Yep, of course we imported the strain originally (pre March 2020), noting that this is still before summer and those pesky holiday makers.
This is where it gets awkward for the original poster, Imperial go on to say.....
The degree to which the surviving lineages contributed to the UK’s ongoing epidemic in the autumn and winter 2020, including the effect of specific mutations on lineage growth rates, is currently under investigation.
So even Imperial cant state that the autumn and winter increases are attributable to holiday makers, still not seeing a connection to the original posters comments. I'm all for reasoned debate and discussion, but at least attempt to put forward some credible evidence.
Booked and still booking.
Managed to ski last year before it all kicked off, had one cancelled and were able to take our late holiday, (Cyprus). As others have said case numbers were far lower there and zero cases in the area we were in so all felt much better over there than here and everyone on the plane, (perhaps not crew), had negative tests within the last 72 hours.
This year New Orleans is cancelled for April, hoping to get to Bermuda in June and back to Cyprus in October. Quietly hopeful for Bermuda due to low cases and if we are all vaccinated, (first vaccine), by then our cases numbers should be minimal.
Either way we will continue to book as we both work damn hard and really look forward to getting away to the sun.
What we are being careful in booking is UK breaks. Hotels are generally OK for refunds but AirBnB, Cottages.com, VRBO, etc. all have next to no refund if COVID influences travel unless you actually have it. Even if you can’t travel due to legislation they say it is up to the owner and any we have looked at have no special terms listed.
Managed to ski last year before it all kicked off, had one cancelled and were able to take our late holiday, (Cyprus). As others have said case numbers were far lower there and zero cases in the area we were in so all felt much better over there than here and everyone on the plane, (perhaps not crew), had negative tests within the last 72 hours.
This year New Orleans is cancelled for April, hoping to get to Bermuda in June and back to Cyprus in October. Quietly hopeful for Bermuda due to low cases and if we are all vaccinated, (first vaccine), by then our cases numbers should be minimal.
Either way we will continue to book as we both work damn hard and really look forward to getting away to the sun.
What we are being careful in booking is UK breaks. Hotels are generally OK for refunds but AirBnB, Cottages.com, VRBO, etc. all have next to no refund if COVID influences travel unless you actually have it. Even if you can’t travel due to legislation they say it is up to the owner and any we have looked at have no special terms listed.
Pete102 said:
loafer123 said:
Well known that the source of our severe infection was Europe;
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/212093/covid-19-tr...
Did you read the link you posted? If you didn't I'll pick out the bits as to why its not relevant to the original posters comment that it was linked to summer travellers:https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/212093/covid-19-tr...
Before the March 2020 lockdown, high travel volumes and few restrictions on international arrivals led to the establishment and co-circulation of >1000 identifiable UK transmission lineages, jointly contributing to accelerated epidemic growth that quickly exceeded national contact tracing capacity
Yep, of course we imported the strain originally (pre March 2020), noting that this is still before summer and those pesky holiday makers.
This is where it gets awkward for the original poster, Imperial go on to say.....
The degree to which the surviving lineages contributed to the UK’s ongoing epidemic in the autumn and winter 2020, including the effect of specific mutations on lineage growth rates, is currently under investigation.
So even Imperial cant state that the autumn and winter increases are attributable to holiday makers, still not seeing a connection to the original posters comments. I'm all for reasoned debate and discussion, but at least attempt to put forward some credible evidence.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.25...
loafer123 said:
Better, but its not particularly convincing, the opening lines:However, within Europe travel resumed in the summer of 2020, and the impact of this travel on the epidemic is not well understood. Here we report on a novel SARS-CoV-2 variant, 20A.EU1, that emerged in Spain in early summer, and subsequently spread to multiple locations in Europe, accounting for the majority of sequences by autumn.
I'm not disputing for one minute that travel moves the virus around, that much is obvious. My point is that there is no evidence to directly link summer holidays to the rise in cases experienced in September and August. Both sources you've provided fail to conclude either way. European variants may well have been detected in the majority of sequences by Autumn, but the rates were low for months before that point (travel resumed June 15th). The biggest change around the time of increasing cases was a return to education.
Soft Top said:
What we are being careful in booking is UK breaks. Hotels are generally OK for refunds but AirBnB, Cottages.com, VRBO, etc. all have next to no refund if COVID influences travel unless you actually have it. Even if you can’t travel due to legislation they say it is up to the owner and any we have looked at have no special terms listed.
With AirBNB it depends on the host's cancellation policy.Some you can cancel up to 1 week before and still get full refund or just move the booking as some of our guests have done when they booked for April this year.
Booking.com have a flexible cancellation policy.
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