Are BA pricing themselves out of the market?
Discussion
Pistonheader101 said:
Ahhh, I've used this several times in the past and agree the flights plus hotel option do tend to be cost effective, however looking now, they want £14k for 2 people to Barbados for my dates for a 3 star hotel, so I'll decline!It will be interesting to see if it carries on being cost effective.
I've just priced up flights to Florida for next year, leaving late April and returning early May - they are quoting quite a bit more than I've ever paid previously so I'm holding off for now until some other airlines release flights in the coming weeks.
Increased BA prices, a sign of the times, or just looking too far in advance? I always thought the earlier you book the better, maybe that's not the case.
Increased BA prices, a sign of the times, or just looking too far in advance? I always thought the earlier you book the better, maybe that's not the case.
yellowbentines said:
I've just priced up flights to Florida for next year, leaving late April and returning early May - more than I've ever paid previously so I'm holding off for now until some other airlines release flights in the coming weeks.
Increased BA prices, a sign of the times, or just looking too far in advance? I always thought the earlier you book the better, maybe that's not the case.
They call it ‘Dynamic Pricing’ which could go up or down. Are you feeling lucky?Increased BA prices, a sign of the times, or just looking too far in advance? I always thought the earlier you book the better, maybe that's not the case.
foliedouce said:
yellowbentines said:
Increased BA prices, a sign of the times, or just looking too far in advance? I always thought the earlier you book the better, maybe that's not the case.
BA flights have always worked out cheaper for me by booking well in advance, clearly not anymore.I worked for BA around 19 years ago so I can offer some insight into their fare structures as I doubt they have changed in the interim period.
So take Business Class as an example as it's a little more simplistic than economy but the same princiiple applies in any cabin class.
Business class has say for arguments sake 20 seats in the cabin,
Not all 20 seats will pay the same fare, there are (or were) two standard fare grades
Band C
Band D
To the person on the flight the band makes no difference to the seat or inflight service, lounge access etc
Band D will have more restrictions on the ticket than Band C,
Band C will allow the passenger to cancel the flight, change the flight, upgrade or downgrade the ticket etc and there will be no penalties attached other than fare variations on the upgrade and downgrade.
Band D will be a restricted ticket which may not allow cancellations or changes or if it does there will be a charge for those to happen which is the pay off for the cheaper fare.
On top of that any airline will only allow the sale of a certain number of seats at the lower fares and once they go only the higher Band fares are available.
If an airline has a sale on they will create another Band letter for that promotion and those seats will come out of either Band D or C allocation and they will be further restricted both in number of seats at that price and the restrictions imposed.
Many years ago when I worked at BA making bookings very frequent flyers would call up and ask for specific Band fares for their needs as they knew the terms as well as I did at the time.
So take Business Class as an example as it's a little more simplistic than economy but the same princiiple applies in any cabin class.
Business class has say for arguments sake 20 seats in the cabin,
Not all 20 seats will pay the same fare, there are (or were) two standard fare grades
Band C
Band D
To the person on the flight the band makes no difference to the seat or inflight service, lounge access etc
Band D will have more restrictions on the ticket than Band C,
Band C will allow the passenger to cancel the flight, change the flight, upgrade or downgrade the ticket etc and there will be no penalties attached other than fare variations on the upgrade and downgrade.
Band D will be a restricted ticket which may not allow cancellations or changes or if it does there will be a charge for those to happen which is the pay off for the cheaper fare.
On top of that any airline will only allow the sale of a certain number of seats at the lower fares and once they go only the higher Band fares are available.
If an airline has a sale on they will create another Band letter for that promotion and those seats will come out of either Band D or C allocation and they will be further restricted both in number of seats at that price and the restrictions imposed.
Many years ago when I worked at BA making bookings very frequent flyers would call up and ask for specific Band fares for their needs as they knew the terms as well as I did at the time.
Jamescrs said:
I worked for BA around 19 years ago so I can offer some insight into their fare structures as I doubt they have changed in the interim period.
I can guarantee you they have 
You still have fare classes within travel classes, but pricing is far more complex and more dynamic than it used to be (for example there are at least 10 fare classes within the "Economy" travel class). And even beyond that, surge and dynamic pricing means that exactly the same ticket will vary in price, sometimes considerably, depending on how full the flight is, how far in advance, whether you are travelling on a peak day etc. etc. More and more now they are using machine learning and predictive models to work out what to charge you, personally, for flying on that specific flight, on that specific day. Simple and clear it ain't.
As an economy passenger, I've gone from being fairly loyal to disillusioned...
1. A trip anywhere means a schlep to London - or a connection via London
2. Pre-covid my experiences were a dated 777, and an even more dated 747. Pretty much everyone flew newer kit.
3. This is heresay, but getting through on the phone appears to be impossible.
A few weeks ago we flew to Florida from Doncaster with Tui. No queues, modern 787, decent entertainment, friendly staff and enough free booze for me.
But also, due to a documentation issue, my wife had to delay flying out two days so she could sort out her vaccination certificate. Tui was contactable and flexible. They agreed not to cancel her return flight as a no-show. And sold her a new flight out to join us for £155. I absolutely would not have seen that flexibility and helpfulness from BA - if I could even get through on the phone.
BA special - no they are just an airline and if they do not compete I'll book elsewhere.
1. A trip anywhere means a schlep to London - or a connection via London
2. Pre-covid my experiences were a dated 777, and an even more dated 747. Pretty much everyone flew newer kit.
3. This is heresay, but getting through on the phone appears to be impossible.
A few weeks ago we flew to Florida from Doncaster with Tui. No queues, modern 787, decent entertainment, friendly staff and enough free booze for me.
But also, due to a documentation issue, my wife had to delay flying out two days so she could sort out her vaccination certificate. Tui was contactable and flexible. They agreed not to cancel her return flight as a no-show. And sold her a new flight out to join us for £155. I absolutely would not have seen that flexibility and helpfulness from BA - if I could even get through on the phone.
BA special - no they are just an airline and if they do not compete I'll book elsewhere.
Sounds like their 'dynamic pricing' is a total lottery then?
How does that help them sell seats though. If I check today and the prices are higher than I'd like to pay, I have no idea whether they will go up, come down, or when - so if another airline offers a better price (and service) today for the same route then they lose that sale.
I too have been on some pretty ropey old BA 747s in recent years, with broken seats taped off.
How does that help them sell seats though. If I check today and the prices are higher than I'd like to pay, I have no idea whether they will go up, come down, or when - so if another airline offers a better price (and service) today for the same route then they lose that sale.
I too have been on some pretty ropey old BA 747s in recent years, with broken seats taped off.
yellowbentines said:
Sounds like their 'dynamic pricing' is a total lottery then?
How does that help them sell seats though. If I check today and the prices are higher than I'd like to pay, I have no idea whether they will go up, come down, or when - so if another airline offers a better price (and service) today for the same route then they lose that sale.
Lottery? No. Hard to predict? Yes.How does that help them sell seats though. If I check today and the prices are higher than I'd like to pay, I have no idea whether they will go up, come down, or when - so if another airline offers a better price (and service) today for the same route then they lose that sale.
You can be sure that other airlines' pricing is part of the algorithm. And the whole point is that if the offer is higher than you'd like to pay, they are predicting that somebody else who will pay it will be along pretty soon. BTW it's not just BA doing this, all airlines are moving to (have moved to, in fact) dynamic pricing. I think Easyjet were the first to really adopt it in anger.
yellowbentines said:
Sounds like their 'dynamic pricing' is a total lottery then?
Yes & no. There are patterns which you can predict/anticipate if you follow a particular route. There was period I was buying seat on LHR-KWI return every couple of weeks. Checking flight prices often daily you could spot if a better price may come through, you could also spot when upgrading was on the cards in particular classes based on relative pricing.Anyhow another BA benchmark. I booked a package with BA week or so ago. Club Europe, hotel, suite, AI. Compared to budget operators such as Jet2… standard flight, same hotel, standard room, B&B…. £300 more with Jet2
BA prices into the Caribbean have gone a bit silly in the last year. I did 4 returns to Antigua over the winter & some of the prices were
Prices appear to have gone nuts this yr. Like many of the regular biz travellers on here, I’ve spent a lot of time researching and booking flights hither and thither over the last decade or more. The prices since Jan are like nothing I’ve ever seen before with BA.
Caveats to above: long haul and biz class+
Currently trying to get flights out to San Fran in a cpl of weeks for 5 days to visit a supplier and it’s loony pricing for econ & premium. For biz it’s insane.
Caveats to above: long haul and biz class+
Currently trying to get flights out to San Fran in a cpl of weeks for 5 days to visit a supplier and it’s loony pricing for econ & premium. For biz it’s insane.
As a super-frequent long haul flier with BA, I still go out of my way when I can to avoid them. The new Club World cabin is an improvement, though. They are still so lacking in all the things that make many other airlines really good and enjoyable. For many of the anglophone Caribbean Islands you are stuck with them (or Virgin) unless you fancy a much longer and more complex routing - or worse yet, going with AA via MIA.
They are doing something right as they are filling the planes. I flew out to JFK in club (new club suite) last Saturday, didn't spot a free seat. Had to change my plans and fly back last night, a day early - only choice I had was a seat out of Newark, no seats at all on the JFK flights. Again, full club cabin.
surveyor said:
As an economy passenger, I've gone from being fairly loyal to disillusioned...
1. A trip anywhere means a schlep to London - or a connection via London
2. Pre-covid my experiences were a dated 777, and an even more dated 747. Pretty much everyone flew newer kit.
3. This is heresay, but getting through on the phone appears to be impossible.
A few weeks ago we flew to Florida from Doncaster with Tui. No queues, modern 787, decent entertainment, friendly staff and enough free booze for me.
But also, due to a documentation issue, my wife had to delay flying out two days so she could sort out her vaccination certificate. Tui was contactable and flexible. They agreed not to cancel her return flight as a no-show. And sold her a new flight out to join us for 155. I absolutely would not have seen that flexibility and helpfulness from BA - if I could even get through on the phone.
BA special - no they are just an airline and if they do not compete I'll book elsewhere.
I can't agree with your comments on BA being flexible or unhelpful, in December 18 we where flying to South Africa, we where in the check in queue and a member of staff asked if we had our sons unabridged birth certificate. Of course we didn't have this as we didn't know that we needed it. I had my moan as id not read anything about it on the BA website, it was in the car hire section of all places. Anyway we didn't fly, but we flew out 4 days later after I got the form from the registry office. No cost to change our tickets and a letter of apology from BA was waiting on the door mat when we got home. 1. A trip anywhere means a schlep to London - or a connection via London
2. Pre-covid my experiences were a dated 777, and an even more dated 747. Pretty much everyone flew newer kit.
3. This is heresay, but getting through on the phone appears to be impossible.
A few weeks ago we flew to Florida from Doncaster with Tui. No queues, modern 787, decent entertainment, friendly staff and enough free booze for me.
But also, due to a documentation issue, my wife had to delay flying out two days so she could sort out her vaccination certificate. Tui was contactable and flexible. They agreed not to cancel her return flight as a no-show. And sold her a new flight out to join us for 155. I absolutely would not have seen that flexibility and helpfulness from BA - if I could even get through on the phone.
BA special - no they are just an airline and if they do not compete I'll book elsewhere.
Now the flip side, nearly £3000 to fly to Capetown return plus then a further £200 minimum to select your seats, that is quite spiteful.. oh and car hire has practically tripled since I last went in 2019. grrrrrr
Xenobian said:
As a super-frequent long haul flier with BA, I still go out of my way when I can to avoid them. The new Club World cabin is an improvement, though. They are still so lacking in all the things that make many other airlines really good and enjoyable. For many of the anglophone Caribbean Islands you are stuck with them (or Virgin) unless you fancy a much longer and more complex routing - or worse yet, going with AA via MIA.
If you are a super frequent long haul flyer then presumably you are at least gold, and perhaps GGL?If so, not sure why you'd go out of your way to avoid. Heathrow T5 and first wing / lounge and CCR still the best experience in the UK (yes I know some swear by Cathay first in T3 and it's decent). The route network and frequency from the UK is good, with plenty of contingency on the TATL routes. The new club suite which is now widely rolled out is a good product. Seat selection, priority boarding, first class check-in at out stations all make for a decent experience. And with GGL at least the call centre is generally exemplary.
If you are flying economy with no status and/or predominantly middle and far east, then perhaps there are better options, but for Europe and the US as a frequent flyer I think BA and exec club are tough to beat.
Hedgeman said:
Xenobian said:
As a super-frequent long haul flier with BA, I still go out of my way when I can to avoid them. The new Club World cabin is an improvement, though. They are still so lacking in all the things that make many other airlines really good and enjoyable. For many of the anglophone Caribbean Islands you are stuck with them (or Virgin) unless you fancy a much longer and more complex routing - or worse yet, going with AA via MIA.
If you are a super frequent long haul flyer then presumably you are at least gold, and perhaps GGL?If so, not sure why you'd go out of your way to avoid. Heathrow T5 and first wing / lounge and CCR still the best experience in the UK (yes I know some swear by Cathay first in T3 and it's decent). The route network and frequency from the UK is good, with plenty of contingency on the TATL routes. The new club suite which is now widely rolled out is a good product. Seat selection, priority boarding, first class check-in at out stations all make for a decent experience. And with GGL at least the call centre is generally exemplary.
If you are flying economy with no status and/or predominantly middle and far east, then perhaps there are better options, but for Europe and the US as a frequent flyer I think BA and exec club are tough to beat.
t together & on the newer planes are very good. Unfortunately that isn't as frequent as it could be.My travel is generally with BA, Qatar, KLM & AirAstana. When BA gets it right it easily on a par with Qatar. But Qatar is more consistent. Qatar business is pot luck on the product as they have 3 or 4 different LH seat from Q Suites to side by side. The 1st wing at Heathrow definitely makes life easier and the 1st lounge at Gatwick is really good also. I like flying Club Europe as 9 times out of 10 i can get row 1, which always feels like it has more space & more private, plus you get far better service.
Pretty much all airlines are a bit bonkers on pricing at present, but I can't help thinking price wise we had it too good (cheap) for a long time.
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