How bad is flying economy these days?

[Motorman74]

We fly premium economy whenever we fly long haul. Tried business once on a BA 787 on a trip to New Orleans - I just didn't see the value, and that was only £400 more each than premium.

On our last trip we flew on a BA 777 with an odd configuration - premium economy has to use toilets half way down the economy cabin.

Everyone in economy looked miserable, very miserable - and that was on the way out. I dread to think how miserable they'd be on the overnight flight coming home.

I'd fly economy no issue if necessary, but premium is definitely the sweet spot for price/comfort

[Griffith4ever]

GT03ROB said:

I've not experienced Virgin, but on BA it's not great value if double the economy price!

However.... BA PE is the place to be to play the upgrade game. Its generally the smallest cabin & with busy flights if economy is full, PE carries a good chance of upgrade to business in one of a number of ways.

• Firstly they will start offering good value upgrade prices online from you PE seat to Club (they get revenue for something they are going to have to do for free anyway)
• They will offer a good price for upgrading at the airport (again they get revenue)
• finally you may just get upgraded anyway

Depends on te route and plane of course.

We flew to Mauritius and back last year. Upgraded to PE for sensible money and it was superb. It's BA, so of course , they ran out of prosecco within minutes, and the food was crap, but so much extra room, and peaceful. Worth every penny.

In contrast we saw the cabin crew in BC (Finnair) pouring all the half opened bottles of champagne, spritis etc down the toilet loo when landing. Guess they can't have part opened bottles between flights?

[Griffith4ever]

djc206 said:

I suppose it depends on the price. £350-700 would be fair enough, £800-1600 would be a rip off.

.

Price for what? £800-£1600 would be a rip off to Amsterdam, but not Australia....

Anyhow - PE is typically twice the price of economy when searching online - this is before specials, or being upgraded, or paying on the day to upgrade. It needs to be twice as much otherwise everyone would use it , including all the revolting people on this thread who say "get over yourself" - they are the ones we want to get-away from :-)

Then business Class is around 3-4 times as much as Economy, with some exceptions.

I just searched return flights to Bangkok, random suggested dates.

Eco £950
Premium £2000
Business £4100

You can do Business for £2000 but it takes 28 hours :-) Stopping in Bahrain for 15 hours out and 10 hours coming back (with an additional 1 hour stop in Singapore). The point being - not really practical unless you fancy lunch in Bahrain, twice.

[djc206]

Griffith4ever said:

Price for what? £800-£1600 would be a rip off to Amsterdam, but not Australia....

Anyhow - PE is typically twice the price of economy when searching online - this is before specials, or being upgraded, or paying on the day to upgrade. It needs to be twice as much otherwise everyone would use it , including all the revolting people on this thread who say "get over yourself" - they are the ones we want to get-away from :-)

Then business Class is around 3-4 times as much as Economy, with some exceptions.

I just searched return flights to Bangkok, random suggested dates.

Eco £950
Premium £2000
Business £4100

You can do Business for £2000 but it takes 28 hours :-) Stopping in Bahrain for 15 hours out and 10 hours coming back (with an additional 1 hour stop in Singapore). The point being - not really practical unless you fancy lunch in Bahrain, twice.

£1600 premium to Oz would still be a rip off to my mind but then I’m probably stuck in the pre covid mindset a bit.

I went to Bangkok last year for £1600 in business with a short layover at Helsinki. Pre covid Bangkok was often one of the cheapest destinations for business class. Post covid the numbers you post seem to be normal and you have to be lucky and catch a sale to get anywhere near to that.

I’ve never been to Bahrain but I’ll pass on that thanks haha

[Harry Flashman]

paralla said:

I’d be looking for a divorce lawyer for even suggesting it. Factoring that in I’d say it’s a false economy.

This did not get the LoL it deserved!

We used to fly business everywhere mid or long haul, in the good old days pre children. I have never seen the value of business on European short haul.

But business class is a nightmare and a total waste of money with small children that need to be strapped into a seat and controlled, thus preventing hassle to other travellers. So we do premium economy now, and it's fine. We regularly fly transatlantic with the juniors to see Lady F's family.

I look forward d to the day they are old enough to fly alone, and the girls will bloody well go economy whilst Lady F and I go back up front.

Parenting is about teaching children their station in life, in my book.

That said, I have engineered a situation this summer where Lady F flies with kids and nanny in premium, whereas I take separate business class flights for work, meeting them at the in-laws place for the family holiday in between my travels. This is a happy marriage (for me, anyway).

[GT03ROB]

Griffith4ever said:

In contrast we saw the cabin crew in BC (Finnair) pouring all the half opened bottles of champagne, spritis etc down the toilet loo when landing. Guess they can't have part opened bottles between flights?

The decent BA crews don't do that. Out come the plastic glasses, filled to the brim with whatever is still in the bottles. Or if they only have the small bottles "Here take a couple for your journey home"

djc206 said:

£1600 premium to Oz would still be a rip off to my mind but then I’m probably stuck in the pre covid mindset a bit.

I went to Bangkok last year for £1600 in business with a short layover at Helsinki. Pre covid Bangkok was often one of the cheapest destinations for business class. Post covid the numbers you post seem to be normal and you have to be lucky and catch a sale to get anywhere near to that.

I’ve never been to Bahrain but I’ll pass on that thanks haha

Business class prices are probably +50% higher than pre-covid. 1600 to Oz is probably not to bad, you'll pay more than that on many routes.

[s p a c e m a n]

Whenever we get stuck with Ryanair we book aisle seats next to eachother, that way we can just spread out into the aisle if we get stuck next to an idiot rather than one of us being stuck in the middle. Used to book a window and aisle seat in the hope that no-one would book the middle but that didn't always work

[h0b0]

GT03ROB said:

Griffith4ever said:

In contrast we saw the cabin crew in BC (Finnair) pouring all the half opened bottles of champagne, spritis etc down the toilet loo when landing. Guess they can't have part opened bottles between flights?

The decent BA crews don't do that. Out come the plastic glasses, filled to the brim with whatever is still in the bottles. Or if they only have the small bottles "Here take a couple for your journey home"

It may be for tax reasons. This is why some airlines have different champagne for when you are waiting to take off and when you are in flight. On the ground they have to pay tax.

[GT03ROB]

h0b0 said:

GT03ROB said:

Griffith4ever said:

In contrast we saw the cabin crew in BC (Finnair) pouring all the half opened bottles of champagne, spritis etc down the toilet loo when landing. Guess they can't have part opened bottles between flights?

The decent BA crews don't do that. Out come the plastic glasses, filled to the brim with whatever is still in the bottles. Or if they only have the small bottles "Here take a couple for your journey home"

It may be for tax reasons. This is why some airlines have different champagne for when you are waiting to take off and when you are in flight. On the ground they have to pay tax.

It is the bars are sealed for takeoff & landing, They pay duty on only the bottles used for predeparture drinks. Anything not in the bars prior to landing has to be disposed of: down the toilet or in the passengers. Where they forget a bottle its usually given to a passenger. .

[irc]

I'm never flying long haul economy again unless I can book an exit row seat. But I am 6ft3. Last and only time I was economy without an exit row was returning from west coast USA. Passenger in front reclined her seat as soon as the seat belt light was out. Torture.

This year as I am flying with a bike the real difference is not huge. Economy £600 Premium economy £1000. But in economy I need to pay approx £140 extra each way for exit seat and extra check-in bag for the bike. So real difference around £150-£200

[paralla]

Harry Flashman said:

paralla said:

I’d be looking for a divorce lawyer for even suggesting it. Factoring that in I’d say it’s a false economy.

This did not get the LoL it deserved!

We used to fly business everywhere mid or long haul, in the good old days pre children. I have never seen the value of business on European short haul.

But business class is a nightmare and a total waste of money with small children that need to be strapped into a seat and controlled, thus preventing hassle to other travellers. So we do premium economy now, and it's fine. We regularly fly transatlantic with the juniors to see Lady F's family.

I look forward d to the day they are old enough to fly alone, and the girls will bloody well go economy whilst Lady F and I go back up front.

Parenting is about teaching children their station in life, in my book.

That said, I have engineered a situation this summer where Lady F flies with kids and nanny in premium, whereas I take separate business class flights for work, meeting them at the in-laws place for the family holiday in between my travels. This is a happy marriage (for me, anyway).

Not having to pay for and travel with small children is one of the benefits of not having children. I don’t have the hips for it.

We’ve tacked holidays onto the end of my business trips several times. Work paying for my business class flights and my air miles paying for mister P’s business class flights is a win win.

[Griffith4ever]

djc206 said:

I went to Bangkok last year for £1600 in business with a short layover at Helsinki. Pre covid Bangkok was often one of the cheapest destinations for business class. Post covid the numbers you post seem to be normal and you have to be lucky and catch a sale to get anywhere near to that.

I’ve never been to Bahrain but I’ll pass on that thanks haha

:--)

Was it Finnair? Likely with Helsinki change. As I posted earlier, I paid around £1800 each BC return, BKK, but that was 2020, and we put off the flights till this winter. £3600 feels cheap now for the two of us! Here's to hoping it gets back to that level some time in the future!

[djc206]

Griffith4ever said:

:--)

Was it Finnair? Likely with Helsinki change. As I posted earlier, I paid around £1800 each BC return, BKK, but that was 2020, and we put off the flights till this winter. £3600 feels cheap now for the two of us! Here's to hoping it gets back to that level some time in the future!

It was, booked it in June, flew in November from LHR.

There are positive signs. The BA “premium sale” has some good transatlantic fares, Aer Lingus were offering some cracking fares the other day. A glimmer of hope.

I’m hoping for another Finnair sale so I can get back out to Thailand with the added bonus of a fair few tier points. We’ve burned through all of our air miles this year because cash fares have been silly at times.

[Harry Flashman]

paralla said:

Not having to pay for and travel with small children is one of the benefits of not having children. I don’t have the hips for it.

We’ve tacked holidays onto the end of my business trips several times. Work paying for my business class flights and my air miles paying for mister P’s business class flights is a win win.

This was our life pre kids! Skiing in California, weekends in NYC, etc. All gone, now, as we bred.

*Cries

[Petrus1983]

I’ve just booked quite a lot of flights and for the first time in a long time they’re mainly in economy. I’ve selected the seats I know are more bareable than others, I’ll be spending plenty of time in the lounge before the flight and will grab a Gordon Ramsey Plane Food pack from the terminal. I’m hoping it doesn’t backfire but on this round of flights I’m saving close to £7k compared to premium.

[ATG]

StevieBee said:

m3jappa said:

I struggle to understand where people get the money from tbh (unless their company is paying for it).

Every time i have looked it is thousands extra. Even premium economy can be quite a chunk more.

fk that. I would rather stay somewhere nicer or stay longer etc.

The clue's in the name. It's primarily a service for business travellers. The space and comfort allows you to work while you travel or work better, sooner once you arrive. This can have profound and measurable economic benefit to those business people, their clients and/or their company so the price they pay is less of a 'cost' and more of an 'investment'.

There's only one problem with that theory. It is complete bks. Business class is a racket perpertrated on companies by the airlines. Employees get bribed with air miles by the airline to spend their company's money on unnecessarily expensive air travel. The airlines also blow smoke up their passengers' arses by telling them they're super-valued special people, proving it to them by letting them sit in a special room shared with only 300 other people, eating free peanuts, drinking free booze ... "free" in the sense of "paid for by your company". The idea that blowing several thousand more than necessary in order to sit in a bigger chair and eat slightly different food liberates several thousand quid's worth of additional productivity is, I think, a little unconvincing.

[GT03ROB]

ATG said:

StevieBee said:

m3jappa said:

I struggle to understand where people get the money from tbh (unless their company is paying for it).

Every time i have looked it is thousands extra. Even premium economy can be quite a chunk more.

fk that. I would rather stay somewhere nicer or stay longer etc.

The clue's in the name. It's primarily a service for business travellers. The space and comfort allows you to work while you travel or work better, sooner once you arrive. This can have profound and measurable economic benefit to those business people, their clients and/or their company so the price they pay is less of a 'cost' and more of an 'investment'.

There's only one problem with that theory. It is complete bks. Business class is a racket perpertrated on companies by the airlines. Employees get bribed with air miles by the airline to spend their company's money on unnecessarily expensive air travel. The airlines also blow smoke up their passengers' arses by telling them they're super-valued special people, proving it to them by letting them sit in a special room shared with only 300 other people, eating free peanuts, drinking free booze ... "free" in the sense of "paid for by your company". The idea that blowing several thousand more than necessary in order to sit in a bigger chair and eat slightly different food liberates several thousand quid's worth of additional productivity is, I think, a little unconvincing.

… and yet many companies do not provide the choice to employees of flying “business”….. its all economy. And then leisure routes tend to be full in business…..true a few will be spending the miles they earnt on business but most won’t.

I fly economy on business & business on leisure!!

[paralla]

I'd need to request approval from Occ. health before booking or flying economy with a duration of more than four hours for work because it would be a deviation from the travel policy.

[AB]

(I think unless you can afford to fly business every time then don't do it as a treat) - I appreciate that's not what was asked.

Long haul in economy is bad enough but once you've flown in business you won't even think about dropping back below PE.

That said, if there was no other way of getting to where I wanted to be for the holiday of a lifetime, you'd be stupid not to, it's not as if everyone in economy is being stretchered out at the end of the flight

(I'm truly grateful for discovering that I can use AMEX on most business spend as well as on FX payments and earn points - hitting over 1m points a year and that really is hard to spend!)

[Pedro25]

Economy short haul is fine, done it for years, Economy to Florida, Mexico etc again fine, travelling with young children for those trips, nothing too concerning, flew to Melbourne in 2016 from LHR, Quantas Prem Economy business trip paid for by them, thought it was pretty good actually, stopover for a couple of hours at Dubai to clean and refresh the plane, got back on to my original seat for the rest of the trip. Business class you can take advantage of the airport lounges I would assume, anything below you have to take your chances with the overpriced and extremely busy bars. Flew from Leeds last Friday to Budapest, delays due to snow etc for certain flight companies, airside was horrendous every pub, food outlet packed with people.