Double glazing salesmen - why can't they just give a price?

Double glazing salesmen - why can't they just give a price?

Author
Discussion

Leptons

3,992 posts

120 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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You lot got away lightly. My ex father in law had his dog stolen by a window salesman.

100% true story.

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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AndyNetwork said:
Whilst I agree with most of what you are saying here, if you are a good salesman, with a proven track record, then sell yourself to the business you are working for, and get salaried. Companies would kill to keep good salesmen.
A top flight double glazing sales agent wouldn't entertain a salaried deal with reduced commission rates. All of the large companies' top earners are way in excess of 100k per annum commission only.

TheInternet

2,858 posts

107 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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VRSAndy said:
After a brief phone call with his boss they would do them for £5000 if I let them take photo's for their website.
It used to be a sign outside / photos for the brochure etc., total BS. IIRC sales staff/dicks are able take about 40% off the opening figure because of the above, then there is another 40% to play with which tapers commission 1% for every 5% off the price, down to no commission once you've taken the full 40% off.

nicanary

6,776 posts

90 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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[quote=VRSAndy]I had a well known company in to quote me for the whole house doing. First fugure was £22,000 but they would do them for £11,000 if i signed then and there. I said no not a chance. After a brief phone call with his boss they would do them for £5000 if I let them take photo's for their website. Again I said no as I only wanted a quote and wasn't going to sign anything then and there. After a half hour of sitting in his car the sales guy came back with a piece of paper with the figure of £2650 written on it and a big grin on his face saying his boss will do a special deal for us. How the fk do they get down to £2650 from £22,000????[/quot

It's known in the trade as "f***ing the price". It's a totally ludicrous quote way below actual cost to mess things up for following salesmen. It's left with the buyer when it's obvious he's not prepared to buy on the night, and will mean other companies' quotes will look high.

Ari

Original Poster:

15,584 posts

159 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
quotequote all
slippery said:
A top flight double glazing sales agent wouldn't entertain a salaried deal with reduced commission rates. All of the large companies' top earners are way in excess of 100k per annum commission only.
Way in excess of £100,000 for flogging double glazing?

You know what, I find that slightly improbable... biggrin

nicanary

6,776 posts

90 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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Ari said:
Way in excess of £100,000 for flogging double glazing?

You know what, I find that slightly improbable... biggrin
I worked for three different companies over 3 years, one being a "local" and the other 2 nationals. Nobody I ever worked with (despite their bragging and gobsh*te attitude) would have made over £25k, even the manager. It was all BS.

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
quotequote all
Ari said:
Way in excess of £100,000 for flogging double glazing?

You know what, I find that slightly improbable... biggrin
You may find it improbable, but I can categorically assure you without question that it's a cast iron fact. wink

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
quotequote all
nicanary said:
I worked for three different companies over 3 years, one being a "local" and the other 2 nationals. Nobody I ever worked with (despite their bragging and gobsh*te attitude) would have made over £25k, even the manager. It was all BS.
You obviously worked in poorly performing branches, of which there are plenty. If the Manager was on 25k, their reps were going skint. Top managers can earn in excess of 150k, some more than 200k. It is not BS, but I understand that you might think it was if all you had to go on was the people that you came into contact with, rather than the bigger picture.

nicanary

6,776 posts

90 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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slippery said:
You obviously worked in poorly performing branches, of which there are plenty. If the Manager was on 25k, their reps were going skint. Top managers can earn in excess of 150k, some more than 200k. It is not BS, but I understand that you might think it was if all you had to go on was the people that you came into contact with, rather than the bigger picture.
Fair point. It was all "you can make really good money here" but they were all driving round in 10=year old cars and wore Burtons suits. The company plan revolved around a canvassing team who were just a gang of knuckledragging yobs, bone idle and no interest in the job. The manager was constantly talking up the career opportunities, but nobody there had an IQ above 100. (I spent most of the time at one place, now closed down).

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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doogz said:
slippery said:
You may find it improbable, but I can categorically assure you without question that it's a cast iron fact. wink
You know what changes 'stuff you say' into 'fact'?

Evidence.

Got any? I'd love to see some!
I understand your scepticism, but I can assure you that my credentials on this subject are about as strong as you can get. I can't really see how I could provide evidence, without naming the company or individuals in question though, which could obviously get rather messy. I have no reason to lie. I'm not trying to provide positive propaganda in the hope that I may tempt some of you to become double glazing sales people. I'm no longer in that line of work.

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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doogz said:
slippery said:
I understand your scepticism, but I can assure you that my credentials on this subject are about as strong as you can get. I can't really see how I could provide evidence, without naming the company or individuals in question though, which could obviously get rather messy. I have no reason to lie. I'm not trying to provide positive propaganda in the hope that I may tempt some of you to become double glazing sales people. I'm no longer in that line of work.
Naming a company, for which salesman earn over £100k/year, could get messy?

Why?
I won't name the company that I was involved with, but the fact remains across all of the following.......

Anglian
Zenith
Everest
Weatherseal

MiseryStreak

1,559 posts

151 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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My windows are being replaced right now. The salesman did the whole phoning his boss thing and we said we were very keen but wanted to talk about it overnight and would let him know in the morning, he offered us £3,000 off to sign that evening, we resisted and he phoned us the next day and offered a further £1,000 off, so we agreed. We phoned up 10 days after signing the contract and cancelled it. This was for a legitimate reason, not just to get more money off. They called us and offered us a further £500 off and said there was absolutely no more that they could discount. The original quote for all of our windows was £12,000 (after discounts!), we are now paying £6,500.

My point is, sign up and cancel within the cooling off period, they will go down to their minimum price to get you back.

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
quotequote all
MiseryStreak said:
My windows are being replaced right now. The salesman did the whole phoning his boss thing and we said we were very keen but wanted to talk about it overnight and would let him know in the morning, he offered us £3,000 off to sign that evening, we resisted and he phoned us the next day and offered a further £1,000 off, so we agreed. We phoned up 10 days after signing the contract and cancelled it. This was for a legitimate reason, not just to get more money off. They called us and offered us a further £500 off and said there was absolutely no more that they could discount. The original quote for all of our windows was £12,000 (after discounts!), we are now paying £6,500.

My point is, sign up and cancel within the cooling off period, they will go down to their minimum price to get you back.
Correct. As long as they are not already at their bottom price, or you get a poorly performing manager that doesn't bother phoning his cancellation, which can happen.

Ari

Original Poster:

15,584 posts

159 months

Saturday 8th March 2014
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Double glazing salesmen and sales managers earning more than barristers, surgeons, the prime minister, directors of proper companies, airline pilots, etc etc?

Well it is an incredibly skilled and massively important job carrying a huge amount of responsibility, so I suppose it could be true... scratchchin

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Saturday 8th March 2014
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Ari said:
Double glazing salesmen and sales managers earning more than barristers, surgeons, the prime minister, directors of proper companies, airline pilots, etc etc?

Well it is an incredibly skilled and massively important job carrying a huge amount of responsibility, so I suppose it could be true... scratchchin
It is true Ari, the vast majority don't, but the top performers do.

Fatboy

7,513 posts

216 months

Saturday 8th March 2014
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slippery said:
Ari said:
Double glazing salesmen and sales managers earning more than barristers, surgeons, the prime minister, directors of proper companies, airline pilots, etc etc?

Well it is an incredibly skilled and massively important job carrying a huge amount of responsibility, so I suppose it could be true... scratchchin
It is true Ari, the vast majority don't, but the top performers do.
It's not just the skill/complexity of the job, it's also how much money that role makes the company - if the salesman is bringing in £1.5M in sales every year for the company, with a 50% profit margin in that then it'll be easily worth while paying the salesman £100k a year.

Compare that to a manufacturing company with similar sales but much lower profit margin and they can't pay the same sort of salaries, so you wouldn't be surprised to see the directors earning less...

Simond S

4,429 posts

221 months

Saturday 8th March 2014
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In the mid 1990's I was on £40,000 pa commission only. As a manager my over ride gained me another £10k or so.

I would say the top managers with the best team could be on £100,000 but it would be one or two, certainly not the norm.

The best money came from selling finance with protection. No surprise there with the current PPI debacle.

Maximum commission in my day was 17.5% for a self generated sale. 10% for company generated. This reduced the further through the discount structure you went. 20% discount would equate to halving your commission.

slippery

14,090 posts

183 months

Saturday 8th March 2014
quotequote all
It's a very tough job, very few can stick it out, but those who can and do it well are richly rewarded. I would regularly work over 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week, plus bank holidays. To give you an idea of attrition rates, when we did the sums one year, we started with 120 sales people and took around 700 new ones on during the course of a year, to end up with 122. Most last less than a month. I worked my way over around 15 years from Sales Agent, to Sales Manager, to Regional Sales Manager, to Divisional Sales Manager, to Sales Director.

Countdown

24,026 posts

140 months

Saturday 8th March 2014
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Simond S said:
In the mid 1990's I was on £40,000 pa commission only. As a manager my over ride gained me another £10k or so.

I would say the top managers with the best team could be on £100,000 but it would be one or two, certainly not the norm.
Those figures aren't a million miles away from what one of my cousins was making with Safestyle. To be honest he was a bit of a Billy Bull5hitter but he was certainly flush with cash for a few years. IIRC he has driving around in an M3 when the rest of us were in Nissan Sunnys boxedin

wiggy001

5,225 posts

215 months

Tuesday 25th March 2014
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Had one of the big companies round last night and, as it was my first experience of this, I stupidly sat through all his BS:

- Building a local "buying group" to save you money
- Everything from manufacture to sales to installation is done by our staff (no middlemen, saving you money)
- Our finance saves you even more money
- You will get a TLS card for life, offering cashback that will save you even more money
- Our windows will add 14% to your property value, so pay for themselves
- Ours are the only A-Rated windows available (what does this even mean?)
- Ours are the only ones with 4 "mushroom headed bolts", 2 end bolts and 2 "dog bolts" for security
- Next year, council tax will be based on your home's energy efficiency. Our windows will improve that and save you more money

So, for 7 windows (uPVC), a sliding door to the patio and a front door we were finally given a price of £20k. If I had a board, photos, used their finance etc that then became £12k. After phoning his boss and being reminded it was their month end (on Monday 24th? Really?) we were down to £8k.

I'd said from the start I wouldn't commit to anything on the night as I needed to compare prices/windows with the competition but still he persisted. He then asked me to sign the forms he stuffed in front of me to confirm I didn't want to proceed, and seemed confused when I said I didn't need to sign for something I wasn't agreeing to!

I'll now be looking for a local firm and asking for a price and nothing more. If they can't quote in 20 minutes then I don't want to know. If anyone had recommendations in the northwest kent area (dartford, swanley etc) I'd be interested to have them.