Half a world, and half a lifetime away.

Half a world, and half a lifetime away.

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Zoon

6,654 posts

120 months

Wednesday 19th April 2017
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My mum's cousin died on the HMS Antelope. He was 18

shed driver

Original Poster:

2,138 posts

159 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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20thApril

British War Cabinet orders repossession of Islands

Canberra arrives at Ascension Island

Hospital ship HMS Hecla left Gibraltar.

Canberra and Elk arrived at Ascension.

The tug Salvageman anchored off Ascension.

There will be a little delay over the next few days - I'm on Bury's Gallipoli parade this weekend. I may be able to catch up on Monday. I don't really want to jump the gun and post the events too early. Unless that's the general consensus?

SD.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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shed driver said:
I don't really want to jump the gun and post the events too early. Unless that's the general consensus?
I agree this is a great way of conducting the thread, with 'real time' posts. Still avidly reading and very interested! thumbup

Zetec-S

5,832 posts

92 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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hornetrider said:
shed driver said:
I don't really want to jump the gun and post the events too early. Unless that's the general consensus?
I agree this is a great way of conducting the thread, with 'real time' posts. Still avidly reading and very interested! thumbup
+1, but ultimately whatever works best for you SD thumbup

Like many others, I find this really interesting and appreciate the information you (and others) are posting. Despite having a reasonable knowledge of events surrounding WW2 my knowledge of the Falklands War is sadly very limited, something this thread has inspired me to improve on.

I was only a year old at the time so don't have any direct memories, but I do remember a few years later at school being told that my mate's dad had served on HMS Sheffield. Being kids we didn't really comprehend what had happened (we knew the basics that there had been a war with Argentina, the ship had been sunk, we won...) but looking back I have to credit his dad for returning to 'civilian' life and just getting on with it, despite going through all that.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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Starfighter said:
I thought that part of the psychology of the Blackbuck raids was to tell Argentia that they are within range and we could hit the mainland air fields if desired? The effect of those raids could have been achieved by the Sea Harriers and using much less by way of resources.
I suspect part of the calculation was that Vulcans were more expendable at that point than task force Harriers.

MrAndyW

508 posts

147 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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No SD keep it up.

I spent 4 months on the Falkland Islands in 1988 and have quite a few photo's.
But I will leave them until the appropriate moments, so as not to disturb the timeline of the thread.

shed driver

Original Poster:

2,138 posts

159 months

Friday 21st April 2017
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21st April

Organisation of American States passes Resolution 360.

Operation Paraquet – the South Georgia operation begins with failed landing by SAS on Fortuna Glacier. A Wessex HAS 3, radar-equipped, leaves HMS Antrim for a recon of Fortuna Glacier, near Leith, on South Georgia. Some wind and rain, but not too bad, so the chopper returns to base, and picks up four SAS men from Mountain Troop, D Sqdn, 22nd SAS. Two Wessex 5s, from the tanker Tidespring, load another 11 men between them, and they deliver them to the glacier.

The weather goes bad. Force 10 snowstorm, 70mph winds, blowing away the shelters of the men. They sit tight, waiting for the storm to abate a bit.

Note - the operation is called Paraquet - an old spelling of Parakeet. It's not as widely but erroneously thought Paraquat, the weed killer. It was known as Paraquat by members of the task force.

SD,


shed driver

Original Poster:

2,138 posts

159 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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22nd April

British Tay reached Ascension.

At 0230, an Argentine Boeing 707 shows up to shadow the fleet, only to be chased off by a Harrier. Woodward requests, and to his surprise gets, permission to shoot it down. Only two stipulations are that they're sure it's the Argentine 707, and it comes within a certain distance.



11:00 Captain Hamilton, leading the SAS on South Georgia radios that they had been unable to move off the glacier, and if they didn't get extraction soon, they would start taking environmental casualties. The same three Wessexes were sent to retrieve them.

At the first try, the Wessex 3 went ahead while the other two landed on a spit to save fuel. It was unsuccessful, the helicopters returned to the ships for refuelling. A second attempt was more successful, and the troops were located. As the first helicopter lifted off, the pilot lost his bearings in the white-out and crashed. The other two helicopters re-landed next to the crash, and split the passengers and crew between them, dumping fuel to reduce weight.

En route back to the ships, the second Wessex 5 struck a ridge, and rolled. No radio contact. The last remaining Wessex flew the 30 miles to the ship, refuelled and took on blankets and medical supplies before returning to the crash site. Weather prevented landing, but radio contact was re-established, with no serious casualties to report. The Wessex returned to HMS Antrim.

About an hour later, the weather abated sufficiently for another attempt to be made, this one was successful. Lt Commander Ian Stanley received a Distinguished Service Order for his efforts that day. Read his citation.



In the meantime, the British tried again. Fifteen men of the 2nd SBS and Boat Troop, D Sqdn 22nd SAS went out in five Gemini inflatables. Almost immediately, the engine on one boat failed and was swept out to sea. The engine on a second failed half-way to shore. The first crew were picked up by helicopter, the second managed to make land-fall on the last spit of land before open sea. The other three boats and nine men made landfall more or less where they were supposed to.

20:00 Argentine 707 makes another appearance, but evades.

RFA Brambleleaf joined the Antrim Group.

HMS Brilliant detached from Brilliant Group with her two helicopters to support Antrim Group at South Georgia.

Captain J F T G Salt, commanding HMS Sheffield deputed to lead the Brilliant Group.

Pym visits Washington with the British response to Haig's proposals.

Britain warns all British nationals to leave Argentina.

British task force arrives in Falklands waters.

General Galtieri visits the Islands.

Argentine navy commandeers trawler Narwhal for intelligence purposes.



Ginetta G15 Girl

3,220 posts

183 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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shed driver said:
At 0230, an Argentine Boeing 707 shows up to shadow the fleet, only to be chased off by a Harrier. Woodward requests, and to his surprise gets, permission to shoot it down.
The use of the Argentine 707 as a recce a/c is the reason that Nimrod was fitted with sidewinder.






Kermit power

28,634 posts

212 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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Ginetta G15 Girl said:
I used to have this sticker on my bed when I was younger! smile

Gerber1

126 posts

91 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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I was watching a documentary on youtube about the SAS involvement in the Falklands, it talks of a plan (read suicide mission) to land at the Argentine mainland airbases, destroy Exocet equipped plans and neutralise the pilots.

It was canned because of the potential political fallout for attacking main land Argentina, whatever that means. If you are at war then isn't everything fair game?

Would have been an incredible achievement if they pulled it off and got out a live.

Same documentary talks of a £15 million budget to buy how every available Exocet missile on the market, and the ones that couldn't be bought were sabotaged.

ninja-lewis

4,226 posts

189 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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Gerber1 said:
I was watching a documentary on youtube about the SAS involvement in the Falklands, it talks of a plan (read suicide mission) to land at the Argentine mainland airbases, destroy Exocet equipped plans and neutralise the pilots.

It was canned because of the potential political fallout for attacking main land Argentina, whatever that means. If you are at war then isn't everything fair game?

Would have been an incredible achievement if they pulled it off and got out a live.

Same documentary talks of a £15 million budget to buy how every available Exocet missile on the market, and the ones that couldn't be bought were sabotaged.
It was abandoned as impossible because we had no reconnaissance information, it was evident the Argentines were far better prepared than expected and the plan was suicidal to the point that some SAS personnel refused to have any part in it.

Limiting the war to the South Atlantic had several advantages:
1. It maintained our moral high ground in what we could portray as limited self defence action against unjust armed aggression. Attacking the mainland may have undermine diplomatic support for sanctions, material support from France, US, Chile and New Zealand amongst others) and damaged relationships beyond the war.
2. Attacking Argentina directly risked triggering the Rio Treaty for hemispheric defence (the US argued it didn't apply as Argentina were the aggressors on British territory).
3. It would involve diverting resources from the primary aim of recapturing the Islands, at high risk to our forces and little chance of success. 'Fleet in being' demonstartions like Black Buck and submarine deployments proved sufficient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mikado

glenrobbo

35,074 posts

149 months

Saturday 22nd April 2017
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Ginetta G15 Girl said:
The use of the Argentine 707 as a recce a/c is the reason that Nimrod was fitted with sidewinder.



cool I've never seen that Nimrod cartoon sticker before:
Even though I was one of the team that fitted the missile pylons to the underwing hard points and launch control panel in the cockpit. Busy busy days and nights.

We also equipped the Nimrods for in-flight refuelling in a very short timeframe. All red tape was swept aside in the interests of expediency. We knew what was required and just got on with the job. Initial installations were a bit Heath Robinson, but worked.
IIRC, the time taken from the initial MoD Requirement being issued, to the successful first inflight refuelling trial and acceptance was just 21 days. An amazing feat by all concerned.

We later converted 6 Vulcans to tankers, to help fill the void created by the deployment of most of the Victor fleet.
We were so busy at work that it was hard to keep up with the events happening half the world away, we were dependant upon radio bulletins to keep us informed.

I only saw footage of the conflict when it was repeated on TV after the Falklands were retaken.

mrtwisty

3,057 posts

164 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
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glenrobbo said:
cool I've never seen that Nimrod cartoon sticker before:
Even though I was one of the team that fitted the missile pylons to the underwing hard points and launch control panel in the cockpit. Busy busy days and nights.

We also equipped the Nimrods for in-flight refuelling in a very short timeframe. All red tape was swept aside in the interests of expediency. We knew what was required and just got on with the job. Initial installations were a bit Heath Robinson, but worked.
IIRC, the time taken from the initial MoD Requirement being issued, to the successful first inflight refuelling trial and acceptance was just 21 days. An amazing feat by all concerned.

We later converted 6 Vulcans to tankers, to help fill the void created by the deployment of most of the Victor fleet.
We were so busy at work that it was hard to keep up with the events happening half the world away, we were dependant upon radio bulletins to keep us informed.

I only saw footage of the conflict when it was repeated on TV after the Falklands were retaken.
Very interesting stuff glenrobbo, thanks for sharing (contributions like this are what keep me coming to PH - many knowledgeable people with many varied experiences to share).

Also many thanks to SD for the thread. This all happened a year before I was born, so no first hand recollections, but have been aware of and interested in the conflict for years.

shed driver

Original Poster:

2,138 posts

159 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
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23rd April

1134The Argentine 707 shows up again. Sea Harriers again go up, and again fail to intercept.

Mountain Troop SAS goes back to Fortuna Glacier during a lull in the blizzard. Potential submarine contact made, thought to be ARA Santa Fe. HMS Brilliant meets up with Antrim and Tidespring.

Sunset Argentine 707 appears yet again. This time it is on a course to enter HMS Invincible's missile range. Listening to a small voice inside his head Woodward asks if there are any airliners scheduled over the South Atlantic. The response is negative. Listening to the voice again, he asks that a line be drawn on the map showing the airplane's course. Two miles outside of missile range, the plotter reports 'he seems to be on a direct line running from Durban to Rio de Janeiro.' Sea Harrier eventually catches up and reports a Brazillian airliner.

Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft, are equipped with Sidewinder missiles just in case they meet the Argentine 707, making them the largest fighters in the world. Thanks to above posters who have added to this part of the timeline.
SD.

shed driver

Original Poster:

2,138 posts

159 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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24th April

RFA Tidespring leaves the South Georgia area, moves North to rejoin the battlegroup.



PO K S Casey (from 846 Naval Air Squadron) becomes the first British fatality when his Sea King from HMS Hermes crashes into the sea after dark.

Thatcher considers resigning following Haig's proposed peace plan. Read an extract from Thatcher's autobiography.

Atlantic Conveyor completes fitting out at Devonport.

HMS Brilliant joins Antrim Group off South Georgia.

Argentine submarine Santa Fe arrives at South Georgia.

Hospital ships HMS Hydra and Herald leave Portsmouth
.
RFA Brambleleaf heads for England.

The Argentine 707 returns, but is intercepted by a Sea Harrier, far enough out that it is not shot down.

SD.

Aldos Army

253 posts

189 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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great reading this

Beknown

254 posts

145 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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shed driver said:
23rd April

1134The Argentine 707 shows up again. Sea Harriers again go up, and again fail to intercept.

Mountain Troop SAS goes back to Fortuna Glacier during a lull in the blizzard. Potential submarine contact made, thought to be ARA Santa Fe. HMS Brilliant meets up with Antrim and Tidespring.

Sunset Argentine 707 appears yet again. This time it is on a course to enter HMS Invincible's missile range. Listening to a small voice inside his head Woodward asks if there are any airliners scheduled over the South Atlantic. The response is negative. Listening to the voice again, he asks that a line be drawn on the map showing the airplane's course. Two miles outside of missile range, the plotter reports 'he seems to be on a direct line running from Durban to Rio de Janeiro.' Sea Harrier eventually catches up and reports a Brazillian airliner.

Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft, are equipped with Sidewinder missiles just in case they meet the Argentine 707, making them the largest fighters in the world. Thanks to above posters who have added to this part of the timeline.
SD.
How did the Invincible not know it was an airliner? I thought planes squawk codes for this reason?

Ginetta G15 Girl

3,220 posts

183 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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Beknown said:
How did the Invincible not know it was an airliner? I thought planes squawk codes for this reason?
Generally speaking, when aircraft are oceanic then the IFF will be switched off because the a/c is out of Radar coverage.


shed driver

Original Poster:

2,138 posts

159 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Beknown said:
How did the Invincible not know it was an airliner? I thought planes squawk codes for this reason?
Generally speaking, when aircraft are oceanic then the IFF will be switched off because the a/c is out of Radar coverage.
Thanks for this Ginetta G15 Girl - I wondered this too.

SD.